What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

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Giuliano

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We there's many things about God His mysteries we don't understand/know right now. I could speculate/guess on that or many other unknowns, but that's a very different thing than God Himself revealing how.
Something makes me uneasy with that belief since I think it makes God look self-promoting. I believe His pleasure is to impart His Glory to His faithful servants. That way it serves two purposes at the same time: The saints are rewarded; and other people can know about God by the Light the saints shine. There is an almost circular pattern to it when God grants His Glory to His saints who then in turn give Him the Glory. It reminds me of love.

Why then the commandment to love God? I think that's to benefit us more than Him. God can survive without our love; but how long will we survive in good shape if we fail to love Him?
 

Prayer Warrior

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I already checked out the site that stated the Bible was inerrant -- from Dallas Theological Seminary.

As for "false claims" about the Bible, feel free to tell me why the Book of Hebrews says the manna was kept in the Ark when it wasn't.

Here's a possible explanation from John Gill's Exposition of the Bible. (Sorry about the wall of text. I copied and pasted it as is.)

This pot held an omer, which was more than three pints and a half; some say six pints: and though Moses does not call it a golden pot, yet it is so called, not only by the Septuagint in ( Exodus 16:33 ) but also by Philo the Jew F7; nor is it reasonable to think, with some Jewish writers F8, that it should be made of earth, which was to continue for ages to come: this also was wanting in the second temple F9; and this, with Aaron's rod, after mentioned, and other things, is said to be hid when the ark was, and along with it F11: but how this pot, as well as Aaron's rod, can be said to be in the ark, when it is asserted, at the bringing of the ark into the temple, at the dedication of it by Solomon, that there was nothing in it but two tables of stone, ( 1 Kings 8:9 ) ( 2 Chronicles 5:10 ) and both the pot of "manna", and Aaron's rod, are said to be before the testimony, ( Exodus 16:34 ) ( Numbers 17:10 ) and not in it, is a difficulty. Some, in order to remove it, observe, that the phrase, "wherein", refers not to the ark, but to the tabernacle; but since the tables of the covenant were in the ark, and these are mentioned with it, and the phrase, "over it", in the next verse, cannot be understood of the tabernacle, but of the ark, this solution is not satisfactory. Others have observed, that they might be in the ark in Moses's time and in Jeremiah's time, when they are said to be hid, though they were not in Solomon's: and others have taken notice, that the preposition (en) sometimes signifies "at", or "with", as in ( Colossians 3:1 ) ( John 1:28 ) ( Ephesians 6:1 Ephesians 6:2 ) and so the sense is, that these were near unto it in the most holy place, and might be in the sides of it, though not within it; for there were places in the sides of the ark to put things into, ( Deuteronomy 31:26 ) ( 1 Samuel 6:8 ) . And certain it is from the above account from Scripture, that they were near it; and so, by the Jewish writers, they are always mentioned along with it: when that was carried away, and hid, they were hid with it; but what a certain Jewish commentator F12 observes on ( 1 Kings 8:9 ) is so express, as if it was designed to vindicate our apostle: his remark is this:

``the intention of this is not to deny that there were not the things mentioned in the law, for they were (Hebrew letters) , "left in it", as Aaron's "rod", and "the pot of manna", only to deny, hereby, that there was not anything of the law, save the decalogue.''

And it should be observed, that it is not said of these, that they were put before the ark, but "before the testimony"; that is, before the tables of the covenant, which were within the ark....

Source: Hebrews 9:4 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Something makes me uneasy with that belief since I think it makes God look self-promoting. I believe His pleasure is to impart His Glory to His faithful servants. That way it serves two purposes at the same time: The saints are rewarded; and other people can know about God by the Light the saints shine. There is an almost circular pattern to it when God grants His Glory to His saints who then in turn give Him the Glory. It reminds me of love.

Why then the commandment to love God? I think that's to benefit us more than Him. God can survive without our love; but how long will we survive in good shape if we fail to love Him?
A thousand "Amens" the the parts here about love.
 

Giuliano

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Here's a possible explanation from John Gill's Exposition of the Bible. (Sorry about the wall of text. I copied and pasted it as is.)

This pot held an omer, which was more than three pints and a half; some say six pints: and though Moses does not call it a golden pot, yet it is so called, not only by the Septuagint in ( Exodus 16:33 ) but also by Philo the Jew F7; nor is it reasonable to think, with some Jewish writers F8, that it should be made of earth, which was to continue for ages to come: this also was wanting in the second temple F9; and this, with Aaron's rod, after mentioned, and other things, is said to be hid when the ark was, and along with it F11: but how this pot, as well as Aaron's rod, can be said to be in the ark, when it is asserted, at the bringing of the ark into the temple, at the dedication of it by Solomon, that there was nothing in it but two tables of stone, ( 1 Kings 8:9 ) ( 2 Chronicles 5:10 ) and both the pot of "manna", and Aaron's rod, are said to be before the testimony, ( Exodus 16:34 ) ( Numbers 17:10 ) and not in it, is a difficulty. Some, in order to remove it, observe, that the phrase, "wherein", refers not to the ark, but to the tabernacle; but since the tables of the covenant were in the ark, and these are mentioned with it, and the phrase, "over it", in the next verse, cannot be understood of the tabernacle, but of the ark, this solution is not satisfactory. Others have observed, that they might be in the ark in Moses's time and in Jeremiah's time, when they are said to be hid, though they were not in Solomon's: and others have taken notice, that the preposition (en) sometimes signifies "at", or "with", as in ( Colossians 3:1 ) ( John 1:28 ) ( Ephesians 6:1 Ephesians 6:2 ) and so the sense is, that these were near unto it in the most holy place, and might be in the sides of it, though not within it; for there were places in the sides of the ark to put things into, ( Deuteronomy 31:26 ) ( 1 Samuel 6:8 ) . And certain it is from the above account from Scripture, that they were near it; and so, by the Jewish writers, they are always mentioned along with it: when that was carried away, and hid, they were hid with it; but what a certain Jewish commentator F12 observes on ( 1 Kings 8:9 ) is so express, as if it was designed to vindicate our apostle: his remark is this:

``the intention of this is not to deny that there were not the things mentioned in the law, for they were (Hebrew letters) , "left in it", as Aaron's "rod", and "the pot of manna", only to deny, hereby, that there was not anything of the law, save the decalogue.''

And it should be observed, that it is not said of these, that they were put before the ark, but "before the testimony"; that is, before the tables of the covenant, which were within the ark....

Source: Hebrews 9:4 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

The Jews insist that the manna was kept in front of the ark; and that agrees with the other passages which say only the two tablets were found inside the ark. There is another reason for not thinking it was inside the ark. The ark hadn't been constructed yet. . . . Exactly what is meant by "before the testimony" is not clear then, but it cannot mean "inside the ark."
 
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Prayer Warrior

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We there's many things about God His mysteries we don't understand/know right now. I could speculate/guess on that or many other unknowns, but that's a very different thing than God Himself revealing how.
It's true that we can't understand everything about God. There are things we have to take on faith. :)
 

Grailhunter

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The Jews insist that the manna was kept in front of the ark; and that agrees with the other passages which say only the two tablets were found inside the ark. There is another reason for not thinking it was inside the ark. The ark hadn't been constructed yet. . . . Exactly what is meant by "before the testimony" is not clear then, but it cannot mean "inside the ark."

I was not ignoring you, I was giving the ladies time to talk. How many stories in the Bible that occur twice have inconsistencies in them?
 

Prayer Warrior

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I was not ignoring you, I was giving the ladies time to talk. How many stories in the Bible that occur twice have inconsistencies in them?
Many "inconsistencies" can be explained by the fact that a story is told from different perspectives. Some info may be included in one account that is not included in another.

Edit: Here's a link to an article I found that addresses apparent inconsistencies in the gospels.

12. Are There Contradictions in the Gospels? | Bible.org
 
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Grailhunter

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Many "inconsistencies" can be explained by the fact that a story is told from different perspectives. Some info may be included in one account that is not included in another.

So very true. If your studying the history of the progression of the texts then you are going to come acrossed indications of the oral tradition methods and stories that were told by different people. That explains a lot of it. It may explain some of the inconsistencies of the story of Christ's tomb. But still there is no way 39 hours can add up to three days and three night.
 

Prayer Warrior

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So very true. If your studying the history of the progression of the texts then you are going to come acrossed indications of the oral tradition methods and stories that were told by different people. That explains a lot of it. It may explain some of the inconsistencies of the story of Christ's tomb. But still there is no way 39 hours can add up to three days and three night.
I've never figured out the 3 day thing. I've heard various explanations, but it's one of those things I just say "oh, well" about.
 

Prayer Warrior

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I can tell you right now that is the best thing say to that.
I don't question the 3 days because of what Jesus said about this, but I question the days. I just read an article saying that Jesus did not die on a Friday as we have always been taught.

Edit: Here's an excerpt from the article.

The Bible nowhere states that Jesus' crucifixion was on a Friday! Because the Jewish weekly Sabbath came on Saturday, scholars assume Jesus died on Friday, thus promoting a Good Friday hoax!

The Bible clearly states the Jews kept other Holy times besides the weekly Sabbath. The Jews also kept the annual Feast Days God had given Israel (Exodus 23:14 - 17, Leviticus 23, Numbers 28 - 29, etc.).

Scripture teaches there were two Sabbaths between the time when Jesus entered the tomb and the moment, three complete days later, his resurrection took place! This is the key to understanding the correct sequence of events of what happened to Jesus our Savior!
Source: Was Jesus dead for three days and three nights?
 
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Grailhunter

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I don't question the 3 days because of what Jesus said about this, but I question the days. I just read an article saying that Jesus did not die on a Friday as we have always been taught.

I understand, written by people that don't know that Christ was crucified the day before Passover. By the time these people try to explain how the time adds up, it throws reality out the window or they calculate it such a Klondike manner that if you were to apply that arithmetic to reality, the people of the era could never calculate time.
 
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brakelite

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I've never figured out the 3 day thing. I've heard various explanations, but it's one of those things I just say "oh, well" about.
The prophecy from the OT type and Jesus own word was that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights. This does not say in the tomb. You need to work out what heart of the earth is, and work from there. No need to change the 3 day and 3 night part, just stick to what the scripture actually says... Oh, and it doesn't mean hell.
 

Prayer Warrior

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The prophecy from the OT type and Jesus own word was that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights. This does not say in the tomb. You need to work out what heart of the earth is, and work from there. No need to change the 3 day and 3 night part, just stick to what the scripture actually says... Oh, and it doesn't mean hell.
Right, I don't change the 3 days and nights because of this verse:

Matthew 12:40--For as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
 
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brakelite

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I don't question the 3 days because of what Jesus said about this, but I question the days. I just read an article saying that Jesus did not die on a Friday as we have always been taught.

Edit: Here's an excerpt from the article.

The Bible nowhere states that Jesus' crucifixion was on a Friday! Because the Jewish weekly Sabbath came on Saturday, scholars assume Jesus died on Friday, thus promoting a Good Friday hoax!

The Bible clearly states the Jews kept other Holy times besides the weekly Sabbath. The Jews also kept the annual Feast Days God had given Israel (Exodus 23:14 - 17, Leviticus 23, Numbers 28 - 29, etc.).

Scripture teaches there were two Sabbaths between the time when Jesus entered the tomb and the moment, three complete days later, his resurrection took place! This is the key to understanding the correct sequence of events of what happened to Jesus our Savior!
Source: Was Jesus dead for three days and three nights?

What evidence is there that the Passover was the Friday? I have read it was the same day as the weekly Sabbath that year. But the full 3 days and nights still applies... But heart of the earth doesn't necessarily mean tomb... Or physically dead.
 
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Grailhunter

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The prophecy from the OT type and Jesus own word was that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights. This does not say in the tomb. You need to work out what heart of the earth is, and work from there. No need to change the 3 day and 3 night part, just stick to what the scripture actually says... Oh, and it doesn't mean hell.

It is not the only place that the 3 days and 3 nights is mentioned. Tradition has it that when Christ was on the cross and when He told the thief that today you will be in paradise, He was speaking of Sheol. Where Christ would go to preach the Gospel to the Jews.
 
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Grailhunter

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What evidence is there that the Passover was the Friday? I have read it was the same day as the weekly Sabbath that year. But the full 4 days and nights still applies... But heart of the earth doesn't necessarily mean tomb... Or physically dead.

The Passover occurred on the Sabbath...Saturday....Christ was crucified on Friday.
 
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Prayer Warrior

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What evidence is there that the Passover was the Friday? I have read it was the same day as the weekly Sabbath that year. But the full 4 days and nights still applies... But heart of the earth doesn't necessarily mean tomb... Or physically dead.
I haven't really researched this, but Friday just doesn't work. Interesting about the heart of the earth.

Where's @Enoch111 when we need him, lol?
 
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brakelite

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It is not the only place that the 3 days and 3 nights is mentioned. Tradition has it that when Christ was on the cross that when He told the thief that today you will be in paradise, He was speaking of Sheol. Where Christ would go to preach the Gospel to the Jews.
The gospel had been preached to the Jews since Sinai. And neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise on that day as far as I understand.