What about the Death to Self message ?

[Pearl]

Good...so glad you saw the thread ... So often I miss new threads... :)

I see very little of you Butterfly or Nancy but I continue to read and post where I feel led.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We have believed it for years, tried living it for years…but hubby and I were talking and at 77 & 82 we find we are no more “dead” than were were in the 60’s 70’s.

I’ve just read a book which really mad me think!!
…I know our old self got 'put on the altar' but it seems that most of us keep crawling on and off!!

Do you know anyone who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?
I don’t !!

It seems we have failed to really grasp the full message that we already did die IN CHRIST. Rom 6.6
So why the constant effort when We are already dead!! Why do we still keep struggling to kill which God says is DEAD?
It was final, finished, done Rom 6 10-11.

This must be linked to the knowledge that 'our mind must be renewed' about all this if we are going to life in victory! .."be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
That we believe His word and what He says about us.

We remember that God asked Adam in the Garden..” Who told you that you were naked?” ( one of the many favourites of @bbyrd009 :) )

And we know who said to Jesus- “ IF thou be the son of God…”

It is the same voice which constantly tells to us that we do not measure up!! (and often he uses the voices of some in our life or on this very site to tell us that!! He will use any will object he can to so his destructive work)

If we think about what is called 'the death to self message'…really it is all about US and Self!!! ( " How am I doing...always measuring the me." )
“ Am I being good and spiritual by being dead enough.?”


Maybe it is time that we just stopped Trying and started bathing in His Presence..and seeng our God who is indeed awesome in wonder ..and as @Not me 's lovely post said the other day… "Let Us Draw Near…"in FULL assurance of faith.."

Time we believed what The Word has told us… “For Ye are dead, and our new life is hid with Christ in God “

Well, Helen, I still believe in it actually. I just think modern Christians have a terrible time actually doing it, possibly because we think we are "rich" when (in spiritual terms) we are actually poor, wretched, miserable, blind and naked. It doesn't help that we have a lot of preachers flattering us more than is fitting also.

But I almost didn't post on this thread cuz I hate disagreeing with you. Then again, we've disagreed before and it didn't kill us, so one more time wouldn't hurt : ) But I know a few visions that reference this, and the importance of dying to the old man in the spiritual development of a believer.

I can promise you I'm not there yet either, LoL.

 

[marks]

I just think modern Christians have a terrible time actually doing it, possibly because we think we are "rich" when (in spiritual terms) we are actually poor, wretched, miserable, blind and naked.

How do you reconcile this, above, with passages like these?

Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ"

2 Peter 1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Isn't it rather the opposite? That the real reason is we forget that we're rich, and we think we're poor, and blind, and miserable, and naked?

As Peter also wrote . . .

2 Peter 1
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Blind, and having forgotten.

I think a good reminder to Christians is, Dead to sin and alive unto God. That's what we are.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

...when (in spiritual terms) we are actually poor, wretched, miserable, blind and naked.

Those terms apply to the lost, not to the saved. Even though they belonged to a church. The context makes it perfectly clear.

 

[Helen]

we are actually poor, wretched, miserable, blind and naked. It doesn't help that we have a lot of preachers flattering us more than is fitting also.

No problem bro...

All I can say is...you may be poor, wretched, miserable, blind and naked....I'm not.

I am saved, healed, blessed, made righteous, holy, victorious, etc etc etc..etc...I am what He says I am IN CHRIST.

It all depends on which 'WE' we choose to identify with...our old man, or Jesus Christ. In the OT God tells us what to choose.
" I have set before you death and life , blessing and cursing...therefore choose life.." His word is life...and He tells us that WE are new creatures in Him...

 

[ScottA]

It is Time that messes with our mind. And, yes, this realm of time is of the world...not of the kingdom, and therefore a domain of Satan.

It is the renewing of our mind that is necessary to get off the timeline of the world and get the bigger picture (as it is written) in present tense: the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[Nancy]

I see very little of you Butterfly or Nancy but I continue to read and post where I feel led.

Same here Pat...I miss so much and, then, I come upon a reply to one of my month old posts!!!!!! I hope folks are not thinking they are being ignored.

 

[Waiting on him]

There should be no struggling. Christians should simply apply the acronym J-O-Y in every situation.

All things should be received with praise and thanksgiving.

 

[Not me]

We have believed it for years, tried living it for years…but hubby and I were talking and at 77 & 82 we find we are no more “dead” than were were in the 60’s 70’s.

I’ve just read a book which really mad me think!!
…I know our old self got 'put on the altar' but it seems that most of us keep crawling on and off!!

Do you know anyone who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?
I don’t !!

It seems we have failed to really grasp the full message that we already did die IN CHRIST. Rom 6.6
So why the constant effort when We are already dead!! Why do we still keep struggling to kill which God says is DEAD?
It was final, finished, done Rom 6 10-11.

This must be linked to the knowledge that 'our mind must be renewed' about all this if we are going to life in victory! .."be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
That we believe His word and what He says about us.

We remember that God asked Adam in the Garden..” Who told you that you were naked?” ( one of the many favourites of @bbyrd009 :) )

And we know who said to Jesus- “ IF thou be the son of God…”

It is the same voice which constantly tells to us that we do not measure up!! (and often he uses the voices of some in our life or on this very site to tell us that!! He will use any will object he can to so his destructive work)

If we think about what is called 'the death to self message'…really it is all about US and Self!!! ( " How am I doing...always measuring the me." )
“ Am I being good and spiritual by being dead enough.?”


Maybe it is time that we just stopped Trying and started bathing in His Presence..and seeng our God who is indeed awesome in wonder ..and as @Not me 's lovely post said the other day… "Let Us Draw Near…"in FULL assurance of faith.."

Time we believed what The Word has told us… “For Ye are dead, and our new life is hid with Christ in God “

Thank you for the recognition ByGrace. And may God answer the cry of your heart to know and see inwardly what it means to be dead in Christ. Be so blessed in Him ByGrace.

If I may have liberty here to speak a few words on this subject, it (Lord willing) might help with the growing and seeing into this truth.

Ask yourself, how could I be guaranteed to never ever sin, to now to all eternity?

There is but one way, that is if you were really and truly to die right this instant. You would be freed from sin. You would be free from having to be obedient to the body of this death, in which houses all the lust of the flesh, eyes, and the pride of life (all sin). You would be free from having to be obedient. You could still choose to be obedient but you wouldn’t have to, for, “he that has died is free from sin”.

There are many believers that intellectually know, with their human understanding the scripture truth of “reckoning themselves dead unto sin and alive unto God”. And try as they might, with all honesty of heart, have no real fruit in the endeavor.

If I may be so bold as to state why.

It is because they haven’t yet come to the end of themselves, where they truly see that it is better to enter into death (die) than to live in sin any longer. When a believer is brought to the place where they would rather die than sin, than with the faith of the heart turned toward God, to take God at His word and believe that when Jesus died they died. Than the heart will know and taste what it means to be dead in Christ. For our salvation is a free gift from God to the heart that would grab onto it by faith. From beginning to end, it is all accessed by the faith of the heart turned towards God.

Once this truth is tasted, by experience, to be God’s way in a believers life, than it just and always a entering into our deaths in Christ to a ever increasing degree, which will manifest itself outwardly by the believer walking in newness of life.

Take these words before God and ask about them. I will be standing with you before God that the understanding of what it means to be dead in Christ will become alive in you. For joy and peace and the love of God are expressed in Christ taking us to death with Him so that we may walk in newness of life.

Be blessed as we grow in Him, a fellow believer, Not me

edit, which book did you just finish? Sounds like a good one!

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you know anyone who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?
I don’t !!

i think that is a diff kind of "death to self" than is meant by Scripture? Or at least i thought so

 

[Waiting on him]

Thank you for the recognition ByGrace. And may God answer the cry of your heart to know and see inwardly what it means to be dead in Christ. Be so blessed in Him ByGrace.

If I may have liberty here to speak a few words on this subject, it (Lord willing) might help with the growing and seeing into this truth.

Ask yourself, how could I be guaranteed to never ever sin, to now to all eternity?

There is but one way, that is if you were really and truly to die right this instant. You would be freed from sin. You would be free from having to be obedient to the body of this death, in which houses all the lust of the flesh, eyes, and the pride of life (all sin). You would be free from having to be obedient. You could still choose to be obedient but you wouldn’t have to, for, “he that has died is free from sin”.

There are many believers that intellectually know, with their human understanding the scripture truth of “reckoning themselves dead unto sin and alive unto God”. And try as they might, with all honesty of heart, have no real fruit in the endeavor.

If I may be so bold as to state why.

It is because they haven’t yet come to the end of themselves, where they truly see that it is better to enter into death (die) than to live in sin any longer. When a believer is brought to the place where they would rather die than sin, than with the faith of the heart turned toward God, to take God at His word and believe that when Jesus died they died. Than the heart will know and taste what it means to be dead in Christ. For our salvation is a free gift from God to the heart that would grab onto it by faith. From beginning to end, it is all accessed by the faith of the heart turned towards God.

Once this truth is tasted, by experience, to be God’s way in a believers life, than it just and always a entering into our deaths in Christ to a ever increasing degree, which will manifest itself outwardly by the believer walking in newness of life.

Take these words before God and ask about them. I will be standing with you before God that the understanding of what it means to be dead in Christ will become alive in you. For joy and peace and the love of God are expressed in Christ taking us to death with Him so that we may walk in newness of life.

Be blessed as we grow in Him, a fellow believer, Not me

edit, which book did you just finish? Sounds like a good one!

Your post reminds me of the Janis japolin son.... freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.

 

[Hidden In Him]

How do you reconcile this, above, with passages like these?

Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ"

2 Peter 1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Hey, marks! Well, see, I was quoting from Revelation 3:14-22. The church at Laodicea had these same promises as believers, but as Ephesians 1:3 states, these blessings and promises belong to believers so long as they abide in Christ, for all the promises of God are yea and amen in Him, and unfortunately the Laodicean church (which parallels the modern church in prophecy) was clearly not abiding in Him. The Lord was instead outside the church knocking, trying to get back in (Revelation 3:20).

Isn't it rather the opposite? That the real reason is we forget that we're rich, and we think we're poor, and blind, and miserable, and naked?

I'm sure in some cases this is certainly true. But in most it is not. Most believers today are overly confident towards God, given the lives they are actually living (imo).

As Peter also wrote . . .

2 Peter 1
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Yes, and here we have another instance of the NT describing those who had the promises of God in Christ, but were unfortunately NOT adding to their faith, virtue, and virtue knowledge, and knowledge self control, and self-control endurance... (2 Peter 1:5-7). The church today is trying to go on faith alone, and as Peter says, it will make a believer blind (2 Peter 1:9). Eventually they do take on forgetfulness of the cleansing of their sins, because their sins continue to be ever before their eyes, not being put away by the power of Christ in them.

I think a good reminder to Christians is, Dead to sin and alive unto God. That's what we are.

I only wish that were true, LoL. This saying was a theological construct, yes. But what Paul was trying to get over to them was this: "If believers in Christ are dead to sins, then why are you still walking in them?" In other words, it was not just a mindset he was teaching, but a spiritual truth that should be producing a real change in their lives.

 

[Waiting on him]

i think that is a diff kind of "death to self" than is meant by Scripture? Or at least i thought so

 

[Hidden In Him]

Those terms apply to the lost, not to the saved. Even though they belonged to a church. The context makes it perfectly clear.

It was a church, one of the seven churches Jesus addressed, who were as lampstands before the Lord (Revelation 1:20). The angelic guardian protecting that church spiritually was one of the seven standing before the throne of God (Revelation 1:4). If they were not still a church, their candlestick would have already been removed (Revelation 2:5).

 

[Not me]

Your post reminds me of the Janis japolin son.... freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.

Our salvation consists of us going through our death and resurrection as the Author and Finisher of our faith went through His...

Be blessed as He becomes more and we less, Not me

 

[Hidden In Him]

No problem bro...

All I can say is...you may be poor, wretched, miserable, blind and naked....I'm not.

I am saved, healed, blessed, made righteous, holy, victorious, etc etc etc..etc...I am what He says I am IN CHRIST.

It all depends on which 'WE' we choose to identify with...our old man, or Jesus Christ. In the OT God tells us what to choose.
" I have set before you death and life , blessing and cursing...therefore choose life.." His word is life...and He tells us that WE are new creatures in Him...

Okie doki, LoL.

Yeah, see by faith you adopt this position in Christ theologically, and so long as it is then worked out in reality in the life of the believer I wouldn't see any problem with it. But many are taught to believe that they should just believe that the "change" has taken place because of a theological construct, when no real change has actually taken place. That I would say is a misguided belief.

But I knew we wouldn't be having a meeting of the minds on this one anyway : )

 

[Waiting on him]

Our salvation consists of us going through our death and resurrection as the Author and Finisher of our faith went through His...

Be blessed as He becomes more and we less, Not me

The thing I’ve come to terms with is this world has nothing.... nothing left that I desire aside from seeing the people I love growing in faith towards Christ. What is death that I should fear ?

 

[Not me]

The thing I’ve come to terms with is this world has nothing.... nothing left that I desire aside from seeing the people I love growing in faith towards Christ. What is death that I should fear ?

Works for me!

Be blessed as we grow in Him, Not me

 

[Enoch111]

It was a church, one of the seven churches Jesus addressed, who were as lampstands before the Lord (Revelation 1:20). The angelic guardian protecting that church spiritually was one of the seven standing before the throne of God (Revelation 1:4). If they were not still a church, their candlestick would have already been removed (Revelation 2:5).

And yet Jesus was standing outside the door of every heart. A church in name is still a church outwardly, but God knows hearts. And nothing is mentioned about the candlestick, which means its was already gone.

 

[bbyrd009]

i never quite got the lyrics that i could comprehend in this song, and i didnt catch all the lyrics; i take it there is a connection, so ill have to look them up now. I dont really get what the song is about? But then i dont really get relationships either, in a sense, guess that sounds weird. My relationships, even with my family members, mostly amount to transactions imo, they are of German extraction so like no hugging, awkward goodbyes, "oh hi want some coffee" hellos after years of separation, like that. Not cold, exactly...but ya, kinda