Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Yes, and it was documented.
Here's a link to an interesting article about Lake's ministry:https://www.biblesnet.com/John G Lake Biography.pdf
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Word Study
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Here's a link to an interesting article about Lake's ministry:https://www.biblesnet.com/John G Lake Biography.pdf
Charismatic Lady and David Taylor in my understanding both have legitimate points. When the scriptures given on the points is divided such as; 1 John 3:9.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
You must see what this is referring to. The reference is to the spirit because that is where the seed of God is (Christ in you).
1 John 1:8,
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
You must see that this verse has nothing to do with spirit. The believer, according to this verse, see's soul as incomplete. Being renewed but will never be complete in this earth. You can see the completed spirit by Christ in you but knows (soul) there is no completion in soul-mind. Point in case "our dailey lives" are good examples of incomplete in soul. Those that feel they have some kind of perfection in lifestyle deceive themselves. Those that see Christ as their completion in spirit line up with the scripture.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Early on in my first understanding of rightly dividing, I had many debates. What I found was the atheist for instance is not going to divide soul and spirit, so I wasted alot of time and energy. They were to dead set on proving everything wrong and this was an area they would say contradicted itself. The word of God does not contradict itself you just need to know how to read it. So the arguments became pointless.
What do you think it means? Do you think that is soul or spirit?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
You will have to decide that. This thread is on dividing, you cannot lump the two together according to scripture. I'll give you the scripture and you can decide if it is soul or spirit, it can't be both. Paul said it must be one or the other, divided up to understand scripture. Without it we just don't know.
Hebrews 4:12,
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the DIVIDING asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Didn't you say you thought 1 John 1:8 was a Christian, or was I mistaken? You are trying to jump through too many hoops, when the answer is not that complicated for 6 or 8 or 10. You just have to know the author and what he would have meant.
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Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I may have mentioned that I've never read or heard it taught that 1 John 1:9 was not written to AND about believers. I had no idea that there was a movement afoot teaching this, but from what I've seen on the internet, this is the case. So, I'm in the process of doing some digging, and I found this article refuting that view. As this article points out, James 5:14-15 certainly refutes the idea that Christians no longer sin OR that we don't need to seek forgiveness for our sins as believers.
Here's an excerpt:
The text lays out two decidedly different paths: a way of darkness and a way of light (1 John 1:5, 7)—a way of isolation and a way of fellowship (1:6). How are these two distinguished? “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1:8). This is, manifestly, the path of darkness and isolation. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1:9). This is, quite clearly, the path of light and fellowship on which believers walk.
That John uses the third person plural of “we” in both statements indicates (1) if John or his Christian readers were to say they had no sin, they would be walking in darkness and bereft of truth. (2) John, and his Christian readers, walking in light and truth, continually confess their sins and receive cleansing. The Greek makes the continual nature of this confession abundantly clear. The English verb translated “confess” in 1 John 1:9 is in the present iterative subjunctive in the Greek,9 indicating continual action. The term “references a characteristic or common action of an enduring and defining kind by which one concedes ever and always that a matter is factual or true, with a focus on the admission of wrongdoing.”10 Thus, commentators have translated the verb as “keep confessing our sins.”11
Yet John does not present confession as a cruel taskmaster demanding an exacting enumeration of all sins. As the Psalmist reminds us, “If you, Lord, kept a record of sins, Lord, who could stand” (Ps. 130:3)? Instead, John encourages us to recognize and confess the ongoing present reality of our sin and the ongoing present reality of our forgiveness in Christ. In this, he simply echoes his Lord, who taught His apostles to pray, “Forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us” (Luke 11:4). He confirms the teaching of his brother in ministry who wrote, “Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord…If they have sinned, they will be forgiven” (James 5:14, 15).
The apostle presents no peculiar teaching in 1 John 1:9, least of all a manmade law perpetuated to enslave Christians to works of law. Confession of sin is presented not as a tyrannical assault on the conscience but rather as an opportunity for afflicted Christians who feel the weight of their sin to unload feelings of guilt while rejoicing in the forgiveness that Christ so richly lavishes on His people. Thus, John grounds the purification of believers not in the confession of sin itself, since no confession could possibly make satisfaction for sin or merit anything from God, but instead in the blood of Christ (1 John 1:7) and the faithfulness of God: “He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1:9).
Source: Grace upon Grace: 1 John 1:8–9 and the Forgiveness of Sins - Christian Research Institute
Source: Grace upon Grace: 1 John 1:8–9 and the Forgiveness of Sins - Christian Research Institute
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What do they say? I'm not part of a movement, so I'd like to hear what they have to say.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
You don't have to be part of a movement to hear the teaching that 1 John 1:9 is not written about Christians.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
1 John 1:9 is ALL sin. Wouldn't that be sins of lawlessness too? Do true Christians commit lawlessness? Do you know what lawlessness is? It is not ALL sin, but a sin unto death.
Edit: I don't know if we are still conversing, so I'm going to make some tea. Check out the Lord's Prayer and determine what type of sin we ARE committing as Christians, and get back to me. Hint: keep reading past the Lord's Prayer in Matthew.
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1 John 1:6. 'If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practise the truth.'
First of all, John is uniting himself with his readers: 'If we say.' Secondly, it is a conditional sentence, and the Greek verb eipomen, 'say,' is in the subjunctive. 'If we should say.....' or 'If we were to say.....' Thirdly, eipomen is in the aorist tense, meaning a single action, but the second verb, peripatomen is present subjunctive, denoting continuous action. Koinonian echomen is in the present indicative, again indicating continuous action. So if John and/or his readers were to say that they have continuous fellowship with God while they are consistently walking in darkness, then they are lying and not practising the truth.
The suggestion here, because of the subjunctive mood, is that John and his readers are not walking in darkness, and that therefore they are saved. But if they were to commence walking in darkness, not just briefly, but consistently, they would be calling their salvation into question unless the Lord led them to repentance. It is possible for one of the Lord's sheep to become a lost sheep, and to find itself walking in spiritual darkness for a period. But if it does so, the Good Shepherd will leave His ninety and nine sheep and search out and save the one that was lost. However, if He doesn't do that, it rather suggests that the sheep in question does not belong to the Lord and will eventually hear Him say, "I never knew you! Depart from Me you who practise lawlessness."
Note this: "I never knew you!" Not, "I knew you once and then disowned you." David walked in darkness for a period in his life, but the Lord brought him back through the prophet Nathan, so he could truly say, "The LORD is my Shepherd."
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Hey Steve! We agree on something! LOL
Edit: Where are examples of these in chapter one:
'If we say.' Secondly, it is a conditional sentence, and the Greek verb eipomen, 'say,' is in the subjunctive. 'If we should say.....' or 'If we were to say.....' Thirdly, eipomen is in the aorist tense, meaning a single action, but the second verb, peripatomen is present subjunctive, denoting continuous action.
What is the second verb in English?
What is in verses 8 and 10
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Now you've got me worried! I must have made some terrible mistake!
Sorry; I may not have been quite clear.
The first verb is eipomen. 'If we should say.' It is Aorist subjuncive.
The second verb is echomen. 'We have (on a continuing basis).' It is Present indicative.
The third verb is peripatomen. 'If we should be walking (continually).' It is Present subjunctive.
You can have a fourth verb if you like: pseudometha. 'We are lying.' Present Indicative.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Now you've got me worried! I must have made some terrible mistake!
Sorry; I may not have been quite clear.
The first verb is eipomen. 'If we should say.' It is Aorist subjuncive.
The second verb is echomen. 'We have (on a continuing basis).' It is Present indicative.
The third verb is peripatomen. 'If we should be walking (continually).' It is Present subjunctive.
You can have a fourth verb if you like: pseudometha. 'We are lying.' Present Indicative.
With this, seeing as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, do you believe 1 John 1:8 and 10 had ever confessed their sins and been cleansed of all sin? Or that they had never confessed their sins and been cleansed of all sin, and were simply self-righteous?
Of course He can. I just think certain things were meant primarily, not exclusively, for particular times. But no, God does what He pleases, and what He does it good!
I'm not aware of anyone who displays this sort of activity in the same way as the apostles and others in that time, as an ongoing continuing lifestyle.
I believe that many many things happen, that God does amazing works, He's done amazing works me - literally miraculous. And that wasn't with anything or anyone, only reading the Word. But He acts within this creation, and He does that in any manner that suits Him.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, I've experienced a miracle on par with Jesus turning water into wine! But that only happened once.
Personally, after seeing all the reasons why Cessationists believe prophecy and tongues have ceased, it just appears to be a great big misunderstanding and false assumptions as to what their whole purpose was. They are both very important still today.
That's a long read, I can't do all of it right now. One thing though, his description of what if feels like when healings come through his is very much like how my friend in our small group describes the same thing.Yes, and it was documented.
Here's a link to an interesting article about Lake's ministry:https://www.biblesnet.com/John G Lake Biography.pdf
From what I see in him, it seems that he doesn't have a gift of healing in that he can give healings to everyone. But no matter. There was a time I received a healing after his prayer.
Anyway, I noticed a lot of similarity to what they described.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I remember using the gift of healing, but didn't feel anything. But it worked miraculously.
cc: @Prayer Warrior
