The Authority of Dreams and Visions
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Well certainly. This is the risk associated with many supernatural gifts. They can be from God, they can be from Satan, and they can also arise merely from our flesh. But this is why Paul exhorted the Thessalonians not to despise prophesying, but to test all things. Just because dreams and prophecies CAN be from Satan does not mean that you do away with them completely to avoid all risk. With prophecy you test the spirits to see if they are of God or demonic. With dreams you seek discernment from the Lord on if they are coming from Him, Satan or the flesh.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
The future is all mapped out in Scripture; 1 Corinthians 11.26 brings it to light, for the believer.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Dreams and visions are not meant to replace scripture. They have different functions. This could easily turn into a thread on cessationism. If it does, count me out. I have seen all of the gifts of the Spirit used by mature Christians for the building up of the body of Christ.
I don't want to argue; I just by God's grace try to stick to Scripture; and maybe should bow out of this discussion; thanks...
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I didn't mean that you should bow out at all. Please forgive me if I came across as harsh.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Well, I've never been one for the definition that it is merely the proclamation of truth. I think that minimizes and trivializes it somewhat. For me, prophecy refers simply to all utterance that reveals things only known by God, and contains imperatives of some sort, i.e. directives are implied, giving the believer insight on the direction they are to take from God.
That's a rough draft, I suppose. I've never attempted to define the word in specific terms before.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
It is the safest thing to do, by far, and with the least headaches involved. But I believe Joel 2:28 is going to reach its ultimate fulfillment in the end-times because conditions will become so dangerous for the saints that it will necessitate the Spirit directing their affairs, in some ways to ensure their physical survival and in many other ways their spiritual survival.
Because they have NO authority. The visions (not dreams) which has divine authority are recorded in Scripture. End of story.
That is purely an assumption. Perhaps a very small fraction (0.01%) of dreams may be prophetic. The rest are just dreams.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I meant dreams from God are prophetic in nature, Enoch.
Read things in context please, LoL.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
When I started posting in this thread, I thought it was the thread started by Hidden in Him, just so y'all know.
If dreams were that critical for the saints, there would be a lot more about them in the NT. Which means that putting one's focus on dreams might not be a good idea. We know that before and after the birth of Christ dreams are mentioned, but not much more after than. The Apostles had VISIONS not dreams. Just like the Prophets.I meant dreams from God are prophetic in nature, Enoch.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
But
1. the prophets had dreams also, and
2. Not all visions are trustworthy either.
Now your first sentence is valid enough, and it forces me to make what might on the surface appear to be an argument from silence, but my answer here is that numerous times in scripture the prophets are said to prophesy as a direct result of receiving a dream. This is stated in both Numbers and Jeremiah:
Numbers 12:6
He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, will reveal Myself to him in a vision, I will speak to him in a dream."
Jeremiah 23:28
Let the prophet who has a dream retell it, but let him who has My word speak it truthfully. For what is straw compared to grain? declares the LORD.
Now since prophets were clearly operating during NT times, why assume they were operating any differently? Especially when Peter stated on the Day of Pentecost that with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit they were beginning to fulfill the promise that their sons and daughters would prophesy, their old men would dream dreams, and their young men would see visions. This is the same context in which we see the gift of prophecy being described as functioning in the OT.
But visions can also unfortunately be fraudulent, as per the following OT verses:
Jeremiah 14:14
"The prophets are prophesying lies in My name," the LORD replied. "I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.
Lamentations 2:14
The visions of your prophets were empty and deceptive; they did not expose your guilt to ward off your captivity. The oracles they saw for you were empty and misleading.
Ezekiel 22:28
Her prophets whitewash these deeds by false visions and lying divinations, saying, 'This is what the Lord GOD says,' when the LORD has not spoken.
So visions are not to be considered necessarily fool-proof either. Only discernment from the Spirit of God can tell whether dreams OR visions are truly from God.
Your fallacy is in this sentanve.
Dreams and vission have No authority.
They have always to be checked against scripture.
They are only a message to the person having them or for that person to deliver to a person or grup.
Hi Windmillcharge,
This is really asking the question only, admittedly, phrased toward those who grant their authority. But what you wrote is what I think too.
Much love!
What about "The Vision"?
1973. In the next few years to come, he wasn't specific, but it's pretty clear he was talking about in the 80's (or not long after), which were pretty wild, but not the commonplace nude dancing in churches, or the economic calamity (the 80's were actually good that way), no nuclear inferno.
Fast forward to years later, as he claims that the timeline actually stretches out into maybe past this generation.
A seemingly godly man. A seemingly fruitful life. A seemingly servants heart. A vision that proclaimed the end of our world that didn't come.
I've seen people's views on this as, well, parts have been fulfilled, other parts are still to come.
If you haven't read it, he painted a tapestry of life, the vision of a culture, and a catastrophe, and it didn't happen. Again, some say that it still will.
Then there is the theological aspect. His vision centers on a certain eschatology. If you don't agree with his eschatology, then what?
Then there are the many many dreams and visions of the end of the world, or the collapse of the economy, or WWIII, or any other number of things, over the past several decades. I've been paying attention. Literally for decades people have claimed that this year, next year, it's all going to happen! The rapture! Gog-Magog! The destruction of the USA!
What do we do?
Much love!
1973. In the next few years to come, he wasn't specific, but it's pretty clear he was talking about in the 80's (or not long after), which were pretty wild, but not the commonplace nude dancing in churches, or the economic calamity (the 80's were actually good that way), no nuclear inferno.
Fast forward to years later, as he claims that the timeline actually stretches out into maybe past this generation.
A seemingly godly man. A seemingly fruitful life. A seemingly servants heart. A vision that proclaimed the end of our world that didn't come.
I've seen people's views on this as, well, parts have been fulfilled, other parts are still to come.
If you haven't read it, he painted a tapestry of life, the vision of a culture, and a catastrophe, and it didn't happen. Again, some say that it still will.
Then there is the theological aspect. His vision centers on a certain eschatology. If you don't agree with his eschatology, then what?
Then there are the many many dreams and visions of the end of the world, or the collapse of the economy, or WWIII, or any other number of things, over the past several decades. I've been paying attention. Literally for decades people have claimed that this year, next year, it's all going to happen! The rapture! Gog-Magog! The destruction of the USA!
What do we do?
Much love!
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