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Featured The Authority of Dreams and Visions

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by marks, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    You know what! I'm glad you mentioned it. I honestly never studied Wilkerson's prophecies because he was little before my time. But I was just watching a video on it (the first 15 minutes anyway), and so far much of it rings true. I suppose not all will agree, but it seems well worth discussing, so I think I'm going to take your post and the video and create a thread out of it, if that's alright with you. Should make for an interesting discussion.
     
  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That's perfectly fine! That's the discussion I hope to have. You can put it here if you like.

    Much love!
     
  3. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    People love too incite fear.
     
  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot to be gained in this world by sensationalism, of all stripes.

    I think I see that a lot!

    David Wilkerson never struck me that way, and really, I have no idea of the man, only that I assume this was sincere.

    But it didn't happen.

    I've participated on a prophecy forum for a good many years. This forum was founded upon an eschatology that I didn't see in the Bible. But it was a good forum, with lots of smart people that disagreed with me. I really enjoyed it, and I believe I grew through it.

    Just the same, I knew their theory would fail, it didn't match what I read. And it turned out that it was not correct.

    When we read, let someone prophesy, and the others discern, what is that discernment based on?

    There is the discerning of spirits, and sometimes this shows us. But when we lack that supernatural guidance, then what do we do?

    What specific standards should we use to make sure we're not being misled?

    Much love!
     
  5. Berserk

    Berserk Active Member

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    marks: "If Dreams and Visions have authority, why are they not all received as such?"

    Spiritual dreams and visions can be revelatory and when they are, they are a sign of the church age in fulfillment of the prophecy in Joel 2:28:

    "In the latter days, it will be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh...and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams (Acts 1:17)."

    So if no one in your church has revelatory dreams and visions, that absence just may be a sign that the Holy Spirit does not have free reign to operate in your church in the way envisaged by Scripture. On the other hand, not all dreams and visions come from God; so spiritual discernment is needed. A few years ago, two pastors in my small city independently had visions of an imminent great revival erupting here. Since then, both pastors have moved away to another city. Why wouldn't they want to stick around for the prophesied revival? I think both visions were of the flesh, fueled by wishful thinking.

    marks: "How is our sense of discernment affected by the views we hold?"

    When my Dad died about 5 years ago, my brother and I had independent reassuring dreams of a visitation from him to assure us that he will alive beyond the grave. Both dreams occurred in the same location. Dad worked at the CNR train depot in Winnipeg for most of his adult life. In my dream, he and I were walking out of that depot. As we walked the dream suddenly became lucid: I realized that I was dreaming and lying in bed and that Dad had returned from the dead to walk with me! I was absolutely awestruck! When Dad knew I realized what was happening, he lovingly picked me up in his arms, making me feel very uncomfortable. He was evidently thinking of his earliest experiences of me as a baby. This spirit contact was so powerful it woke me up.
    Around the same time, my brother (a doctor) had a dream in which he was waiting in an empty warehouse next to the CNR depot, when he suddenly became aware of Dad's loving presence. Dad never spoke to either of us, but both of us were certain of his real presence. What makes both dreams so compelling is (1) that they occurred around the same time in the same setting and (2) that my brother had always been dismissive of such paranormal dreams until the inner witness of the Spirit confirmed his dreams authenticity, as it did mine.

    I have shared 2 paranormal dreams and visions in my testimony on this site. (1) At age 11, during my baptismal immersion, I had a powerful vision of Jesus standing nearby radiating warmth, humor, and love at my predicament. I was 1 of 10 being immersed in a huge church before 1,500 people. My pre-baptismal instructions spoke of justification, propitiation, and sanctification, whucg added to so much excruciation for this 11-year-old boy. The teacher also told me I needed to be "circumcised in spirit," which was very nice, expect that I didn't even know what circumcision was at the time! I was the only one too scared to share a personal testimony and just wanted to get the baptismal ordeal over with. but that vision of Jesus transformed my baptism into one of the most memorable and precious experiences of my life.

    (2) At Princeton Seminary, I had a nightmare of a life-threatening predicament the next day. My car died on the New Jersey freeway during rush hour in heavy traffic. Somehow I managed to run through the traffic to the roadside just as a fast-moving care totaled my car. I called 2 seminary friends, both Presbyterians, to pick me up. Both of them had also had a nightmare the prior evening of a pending life-threatening situation that would involve them!
     
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  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Posted it here, for anyone interested in commenting on the specific content:
    David Wilkerson's "The Vision"
     
  7. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious about this here, marks. What theory are you taking about specifically?
     
  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    LoL! Thou wast obviously unlearn-ed, yea verily. Kids these days, LoL! :p
     
  9. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    Most dreams are irrelevant, if they are bad and cause any confusion or cause you to think of anything perverse their from the devil, Jeremiah 29:8, God rarely sends dreams depending on the person and their always good dreams!!
     
  10. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    I have had many of both over the 55 years walk.
    While the word of God as you say is complete we aren't !! :)

    Most times when I have received a word via dream or vision from the Lord it is to CONFIRM either something I have asked Him...or it is 'light' on something I have been studying and asking Him.

    They compliment the Bible...they are not instead of.
    There is nothing wrong with His side of things...He communicates clearly...it is us who sometime need clarification on something.

    @farouk I noticed you had also commented on this quote above.
     
  11. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    The discernment i assume at that time was based in what they had heard through teaching oral that is due to the fact scripture was not complete. To prophecy is to speak the word of God before men, simple as that.
     
  12. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with what you’ve written, as myself and wife also experience it. My problem lies in individuals that try to claim prophecy of future events, this in my opinion flys in the face of trust and obedience, Scripture is both complete and sufficient.
     
  13. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Now with that we are in total agreement.
    I heard last week that some 'Prophet' was saying that next year will be a year of clarity for the Church. I said to the person..."Oh yes, and where did that come from? It wouldn't be that next year just happens to be the year of 20 20 (vision) would it! Groan :rolleyes:
     
  14. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    This is true of the 1 Corinthians 12 gifts. However the Mark 16:16-18 gifts are only for the individual. For instance, there are two gifts of tongues. The prayer language of the individual does not require interpretation, but the gift of diverse kinds of tongues for the profit of all is absolutely required to be interpreted. In fact, these two: diverse kinds of tongues and interpretation of tongues are given to those with those "offices." That is the best way I can describe them. But just because 1 Corinthians 12:30 says not everyone has one of these two gifts of 1 Cor. 12 for the profit of all in a meeting, that in no way means that all who believe and are baptized do not have the ability to pray in tongues. Some just don't know they have it due to unbelief and wrong teaching.
     
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  15. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you said about Mark 16 stating events prior to there being a body.
     
  16. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that at all. After we had a body did we no longer require baptism? No, Mark 16 and 1 Corinthians 12 are both part of the New Covenant, and as all covenants, nothing ceases inside a covenant until the end of that covenant. That is Covenants 101, yet nobody grasps it except a few of us. Why create carnal theology to match carnal experiences?
     
  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Prophecy is nothing less than divine revelation (the Word of God, spoken or written, as given by the prophets and apostles, and recorded in Scripture). Not extra-biblical nonsense.

    The problem today is that too many Christians do not believe what John the Revelator said at the end of the book of Revelation. In essence he said that his book was the end of all genuine prophecies, and it was also the last book of the Bible. God has revealed to us what He wanted to reveal, but our job is to focus on the Great Commission, not things which tickle the ears.

    Which means that anyone claiming to be a prophet today is a FALSE PROPHET.
    And Christ already predicted a proliferation of false prophets (along with false Christs, false apostles, and false teachers). And this goes along with expectation of dreams and visions giving special revelations at this time.

    When you go to a supposedly prophetic web site such as The Elijah List, you will not find a single *prophecy* which is equivalent to Scripture. But here is a bogus prophecy on their web page:
    "I believe we are entering an apostolic era when open heavens are going to break wide open over cities. There will be teachings, revelations, expressions, and experiences of this on a scale unseen, at least since New Testament days, if ever."

    Is there any truth to this? What does the Bible say?

    1. The Bible says that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb. So how can we be entering an *apostolic era* unless we are speaking of false apostles?

    2. The Bible says that before the Antichrist is revealed there will be the Great Apostasy -- the falling away. And that is exactly what is happening in Christendom today. So how is this man predicting the exact opposite, when the facts on the ground contradict his statement? Is it self-serving or what?
    The naive and the gullible will fall for this and claim that there will be *a great revival*. But that is not what we find in the true Bible prophecies.

    2 TIMOTHY 3 (KJV)
    1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    And this is exactly what we are seeing all around us. Seducers are waxing worse and worse.


     
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  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Enoch,

    I believe we can add to this list of prophesied changes the return of signs and wonders, amazing powers in the saints of God, the church rising up victorious over all nations and powers with the wealth and glory of the world flowing into it, or the great tribulation smashing everything except the Amazingly Powerful Christians, and, to be fair, more tame stuff.

    I like to focus on the return of signs and wonders for an example.

    Clearly God performed signs and wonders through Jesus, and then through the apostles and - some - other disciples. And it is prophesied in the Bible that there will be signs and wonders at the end. The problem is, what those signs and wonders will be about:

    2 Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

    This is what I find in Scripture concerning signs and wonders at the end of the age.

    So when the prophets prophecy, The saints of God will perform signs and wonders, I wonder what that means. Why would the saints be doing signs and wonders when the Bible says the signs and wonders will be a lie?

    Much love!
     
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  19. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    Return?

    I believe the signs and wonders are still here today.
    The Lord......the same yesterday....today.....and forever.
     
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  20. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a text?
     
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