Stumbling Block verses

[bbyrd009]

Truth be told the number is one

^

ha, your phrasing made me wonder there for a sec lol
there is only One, and i dunno if i am in It or not, but anyway should be obvious that there are not many "Church?" I mean maybe i am skewed there, if anyone can Quote "Churches" we can go from there i guess. From Lex of course, dont care about the Anglish or whatever

 

[amadeus]

^

ha, your phrasing made me wonder there for a sec lol
there is only One, and i dunno if i am in It or not, but anyway should be obvious that there are not many "Church?" I mean maybe i am skewed there, if anyone can Quote "Churches" we can go from there i guess. From Lex of course, dont care about the Anglish or whatever

Ah yes, again we see that communication is a problem. I try to change languages according to whom it is I speak, but sometimes we are too far apart. Though we both may speak what is called English, it might as well be Chinese on the one hand and German on the other. Sometimes I guess I don't understand what some people are even talking about when they go off on their own 'churchese'.

The usage of the word, church, or Church, causes a lot of misunderstandings as I know that you know. Too many people don't know that and some that do know make seemingly little or no effort for the benefit those who don't know.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ah yes, again we see that communication is a problem. I try to change languages according to whom it is I speak, but sometimes we are too far apart. Though we both may speak what is called English, it might as well be Chinese on the one hand and German on the other. Sometimes I guess I don't understand what some people are even talking about when they go off on their own 'churchese'.

The usage of the word, church, or Church, causes a lot of misunderstandings as I know that you know. Too many people don't know that and some that do know make seemingly little or no effort for the benefit those who don't know.

for the most part i ignore the shorthand use of the term "church," except when it becomes the subject, as seemed to be happening there, fwiw. Now i guess Living Stones, there are surely a few of those, right, but i no of know plural "Church."
Bible Search: churches
(ecclesia) notwithstanding imo,
1 Peter 2:5 Lexicon: you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (oikos)
21 Bible verses about One Church

so, thats my arg anyway, bam keep calling "different churches" though if you (not you, "one" i mean) feel led

 

[amadeus]

for the most part i ignore the shorthand use of the term "church," except when it becomes the subject, as seemed to be happening there, fwiw. Now i guess Living Stones, there are surely a few of those, right, but i no of know plural "Church."

I avoid certain designations for things or people, but there are always more that never occurred to me until I stepped into that particular cow paddy.

One that I caught onto early was the word "Christian" or "Christianity". For example, people call the United States a Christian nation, but certainly those people have more than one meaning to the word, Christian. Without clarification of definitions, real communication or discussion is not possible, yet as you have seen on threads on this forum some people surge ahead, each using his own language and no interpreter. When I recognize such a situation, usually I move on... but not being flawless and certainly being quite naive I do too often get hooked and reeled into the middle of it when I should have known better.

When I was a kid I used to beat myself on the head with my own fist. I would do that now, but my head is too sensitive and I would give myself a headache pretty quick.

 

[bbyrd009]

I avoid certain designations for things or people, but there are always more that never occurred to me until I stepped into that particular cow paddy.

One that I caught onto early was the word "Christian" or "Christianity". For example, people call the United States a Christian nation, but certainly those people have more than one meaning to the word, Christian. Without clarification of definitions, real communication or discussion is not possible, yet as you have seen on threads on this forum some people surge ahead head on each using his own language no interpreter. When I recognize such a situation, usually I move on... but not being flawless and certainly being quite naive I do too often get hooked and reeled into the middle of it when I should have known better.

When I was a kid I used to beat myself on the head with my own fist. I would do that now, but my head is too sensitive and I would give myself a headache pretty quick.

oh ha pls dont get me wrong, i might even call a congregation a church myself lol.
It was when "Church" became the subject, here (not irl iow) that i kind of felt compelled

 

[Philip James]

see, pj, no offense bro but crickets is not acceptable here ok

Ah, you are a precious flower aren't you..
I'm sorry if i was tardy in giving you the attention you desire, but I do have other obligations..

Let's see.. Where were we.. Ah yes, you had absurdly asserted that I and my brethren are not Christians and I had asked:

What do you mean by Christianity? Do you mean all those who claim to follow Christ? Or a particular group or communuty who do?

I eagerly await your answers to these questions, or , if you prefer, we can continue to discuss obscure pagan idols that have had no revelance for close to 2000 years..

May the Prince of Peace fill you with the fire of His love!

 

[Philip James]

Is it now 40-50,000 denominations?

When this is happening it is certainly is a movement from bad to worse. Probably not many, if any, qualify as good at the beginning of this kind of motion. Individuals may do better than the church as a group... but it could be a very lonely road. Jesus walked a lonely road and if we are to be like Him?

Hello amadeus,

Sadly predictible outcome from the fundamental principle of the reformation that ones private judgement is superior to the mind of the Church.

And with all due respect to those holy hermits that are called to walk alone and given the strength tp do so, the path out of the land of confusion is clearly marked..

Peace be with you!

 

[bbyrd009]

Ah, you are a precious flower aren't you..
I'm sorry if i was tardy in giving you the attention you desire, but I do have other obligations..

Let's see.. Where were we.. Ah yes, you had absurdly asserted that I and my brethren are not Christians and I had asked:



I eagerly await your answers to these questions, or , if you prefer, we can continue to discuss obscure pagan idols that have had no revelance for close to 2000 years..

May the Prince of Peace fill you with the fire of His love!

i know, huh? You pretty much nailed it i guess sir, somehow without once again summoning the pertinent part of my post imo, and granted without replying before i am even finished editing as seems to be standard for you, but surely a man of your stature has better things to do than move the boundary stone around a lost, absurd anarchist Prot Guy who has not even started trying to illuminate where you are standing, bro? I am trying to be friends right now? But if you persist i will come for your children first of course, and then i will expose your wife/nakedness, and then i will have your head

And i tell you again, irl we would surely get along great, irl you could fake it and floss all you like, idrc, i am a hypocrite too, and surely lost, as you say, but if you insist on moving this boundary stone then you might at least go read what will happen? Bc i mean what does one do against a Strong Man who has broken into their house? You have me in a position here bro. I am not interested in justifying myself and being forgiven later

So i ask you once again to respect our beliefs, and enjoy your Pax, bam, with my blessings, m. james, irrelevant though she certainly is. Please think about it ok? Bc imo you are not at all going to like the fire sir. Yah does not care imo what label "Christian, Catholic" whatever so pls do not take that as denigration, i love Catholics, all my friends are Catholics, dont even know why.

I prolly love the current pope more than you do even. But Christians do not recognize anyone other than Christ between them and Yah, not that you deserve a reply when i cannot even get one and we are after all standing in my back yard eh. But the venue is about to change m. james, unless you change your mind. You might ask yourself who has more to lose here; an unemployed, homeless vagrant, or an important Roman Centurion such as yourself? Brandon is a pretty small place ok. Thank you for your time

 

[bbyrd009]

m james, there is no reason imo we cannot get along famously, despite the fact that you have chosen to serve an earthly king, whom i happen to respect; i am merely asking you to check your sword at the door sir, doesnt seem unreasonable to me wadr

 

[Philip James]

But if you persist i will come for your children first of course, and then i will expose your wife/nakedness, and then i will have your head

This is your demonstration of a Christian? Do you think God is pleased by this? Or that it brings Him glory?

While I admit that threatining my family has made it difficult to do so, yet will I choose to love you all the more..

May the Holy One of Israel shine His light upon you always!

p.s. If you intend to come to Brandon, i suggest you wait till spring. Flowers dont last long at these temps..

 

[shepherdsword]

I am struggling with this entire concept. Let's look at one of the scriptures that I see in a way that contradicts what you say:

Mt 26:28-29 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

It seems clear that the classic rendition of blood atonement is entirely justified by the verse above. it was the shed blood that remitted sin. Though life comes from resurrection power ( if that Spirit be in you that raised Christ from the dead...) redemption requires death, because that is the penalty of sin. While I agree that there is probably much more than this than we can understand the underlying concept is simple. Jesus died that I might have life. I think the whole "Barabbas" approach to salvation is entirely justified. I am not sure where you are going with this? Are you saying that if we believe in the atonement in the classic sense then we have given way to dead religion?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But if you persist i will come for your children first of course, and then i will expose your wife/nakedness, and then i will have your head

Matthew 12:26-28 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? [27] And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. [28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

 

[Episkopos]

I am struggling with this entire concept. Let's look at one of the scriptures that I see in a way that contradicts what you say:

Mt 26:28-29 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

It seems clear that the classic rendition of blood atonement is entirely justified by the verse above. it was the shed blood that remitted sin. Though life comes from resurrection power ( if that Spirit be in you that raised Christ from the dead...) redemption requires death, because that is the penalty of sin. While I agree that there is probably much more than this than we can understand the underlying concept is simple. Jesus died that I might have life. I think the whole "Barabbas" approach to salvation is entirely justified. I am not sure where you are going with this? Are you saying that if we believe in the atonement in the classic sense then we have given way to dead religion?

Jesus said that statement while He was still alive. And He is still alive today. The word "shed" is a translation of a Greek word...

κχέω, ἐκχύνω
ekcheō ekchunō
ek-kheh'-o, ek-khoo'-no
From G1537 and χέω cheō (to pour); to pour forth; figuratively to bestow: - gush (pour) out, run greedily (out), shed (abroad, forth), spill.

Like the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is alive when it is poured out. So the blood is actually life....eternal life.

Also the word translated "remission" is also suspect as this means "freedom."

So then dead religion sees shed blood (dead) covering up dead lives in sin. But the word is actually saying that His life FREES us from sin.

So you have a choice to make. which will you find more believable?

And welcome here! :) <><

 

[amadeus]

oh ha pls dont get me wrong, i might even call a congregation a church myself lol.
It was when "Church" became the subject, here (not irl iow) that i kind of felt compelled

Even so! Sometimes in a very basic communication, we may send a wrong message because that was not the subject. People may be listening/reading when we were not paying attention to ourselves.

 

[amadeus]

oh ha pls dont get me wrong, i might even call a congregation a church myself lol.
It was when "Church" became the subject, here (not irl iow) that i kind of felt compelled

On another subject here for a moment. I spoke with my pastor again this A.M. about Israel. While as I thought before he would love to go, but not now. He does wait on God for the 'go ahead' on things. He sends his thanks, but not now.

Knowing him pretty well and considering his age and other factors, I would say that he will never go to Israel again. But... I have been wrong before.

 

[amadeus]

Hello amadeus,

Sadly predictible outcome from the fundamental principle of the reformation that ones private judgement is superior to the mind of the Church.

And with all due respect to those holy hermits that are called to walk alone and given the strength tp do so, the path out of the land of confusion is clearly marked..

Peace be with you!

Yes, it is clearly marked for each person who has received the "eyes to see" by the Lord. Unfortunately, many people not realizing their own blindness or even their fuzzy vision plunge ahead as if what they find in their minds is always the mind of Christ.

There is certainly only one highway of holiness, but our position on the road is set according to our calling which is determined by God. He called us and if upon hearing His calling, we then follow Him, we will not fall into any ditches along the way... to the right or to the left! We must by all means, follow Him!

 

[shepherdsword]

Jesus said that statement while He was still alive. And He is still alive today. The word "shed" is a translation of a Greek word...

κχέω, ἐκχύνω
ekcheō ekchunō
ek-kheh'-o, ek-khoo'-no
From G1537 and χέω cheō (to pour); to pour forth; figuratively to bestow: - gush (pour) out, run greedily (out), shed (abroad, forth), spill.

Like the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is alive when it is poured out. So the blood is actually life....eternal life.

Also the word translated "remission" is also suspect as this means "freedom."

So then dead religion sees shed blood (dead) covering up dead lives in sin. But the word is actually saying that His life FREES us from sin.

So you have a choice to make. which will you find more believable?

And welcome here! :) <><

Thanks for the welcome :)

I am definitely on-board with the fact His life frees us from sin (and gives us the power to walk accordingly). It's just that I don't see this passage as conveying this. Jesus draws a picture with His blood representing the New Covenant. Also with His body broken for us. This is a picture of a sacrifice...and the sacrifice had to die. I guess the real issue is that if His blood, in the living sense brought us life, then why did He have to die?

 

[bbyrd009]

This is your demonstration of a Christian? Do you think God is pleased by this? Or that it brings Him glory?

once again with the virtually irrelevant...yes, m james, metaphorically speaking, i will eat you, ok? How do you imagine a prot would react to a papist coming and telling them how their cows eat cabbage, after barging through their fence bro?

While I admit that threatining my family has made it difficult to do so, yet will I choose to love you all the more..

May the Holy One of Israel shine His light upon you always!

p.s. If you intend to come to Brandon, i suggest you wait till spring. Flowers dont last long at these temps..

you are...still taking me much too literall, m james, i do not need to come to brandon to goto brandon now, ok? It has some little rag, the brandon tattler or whatever, it is online, etc.

plus fwiw i am a mile and a half up a mountain right now, sitting in three feet of snow, ok, for fun; i could melt brandon if i wanted to ok


now pls recognize; you are here slumming, bc Cath forums are graveyards, just like your "church," believing that you will teach us "lost" ppl a thing or two, yes? That's a rhetorical Q ok, the answer is already obvious

 

[bbyrd009]

On another subject here for a moment. I spoke with my pastor again this A.M. about Israel. While as I thought before he would love to go, but not now. He does wait on God for the 'go ahead' on things. He sends his thanks, but not now.

Knowing him pretty well and considering his age and other factors, I would say that he will never go to Israel again. But... I have been wrong before.

i pumped that up mostly to illustrate how easy it is to goto Israel at the right times of year, the off seasons, apr-may and sep-oct, on BA air (accept no substitutes), for 1/3 the airfare, and if you wanna get like 2 implants cheaper than here and those pay for the whole trip; you dont need me. Stay in hostels for the best authentic experience, and bc Israel is stupid expensive, and escapr to the Sinai for cheap loot and loads of fun, very multicultural, dining on the red sea cheap, great hash cheap, tourist economy all the way so you are treated well, etc.

totally ignore the news hype btw, much safer than anywhere in LA, etc. If you have even one of those tiny swiss army penknives in Israel, you are subject to arrest. It is a very well run country, apartheid notwithstanding. Much. I guess i wouldnt attempt the West Bank right now...well, i would, but then i am an idiot lol

 

[Episkopos]

Thanks for the welcome :)

I am definitely on-board with the fact His life frees us from sin (and gives us the power to walk accordingly). It's just that I don't see this passage as conveying this. Jesus draws a picture with His blood representing the New Covenant. Also with His body broken for us. This is a picture of a sacrifice...and the sacrifice had to die. I guess the real issue is that if His blood, in the living sense brought us life, then why did He have to die?

For a propitiation in redeeming us back from the god of this world. We are freed...as a creation...from being under the bondage of the devil to being free to now come under grace.

Just as the sin of Adam put us under the dominion of the devil...so the does the payment of a perfect life redeem us from that dominion.