Who is Jesus?

[bbyrd009]

We cannot use their failure as an excuse for not approaching God more closely ourselves.

word :)

 

[Taken]

i know you cannot Quote that bro, without doubt or question either, but i am not interested in a pointless pissing match, ok; i am mostly interested in why you cannot Quote that.

That: Jesus died for our sins.

1 John 3:
[16] Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us:

1 Cor 15:
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

That: Jesus died for our sins.

1 John 3:
[16] Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us:

1 Cor 15:
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Glory to God,
Taken

yeh, Christ, as differentiated from Jesus as an object of worship or icon
bc this is inevitably Apollos worship in a dress, Jesus is "Returning" {even though that cant be Quoted} to either whisk all of us {"when we all get to heaven..."} away, or Transform our present reality instantaneously and miraculously, usually associated with a "very soon" to be coming climactic battle--one that many believers believe they will be literally fighting in--and Jesus literally accepting a Crown, etc, with variations right
but hardly no one takes literally what the Pastor said as they were being ritually baptized, even as they go to war over its imp ortance narf

That: Jesus died for our sins.

so, not denying this k, but there is another Scripture No son of man may die for another's sins that you kinda should contemplate along with that maybe
how to make the two agree

 

[bbyrd009]

We cannot use their failure as an excuse for not approaching God more closely ourselves.

and i wouldnt call that failure at all, it serves Yah in a weird way or it wouldnt exist yeh?
the heir is under servants until he inherits

 

[amadeus]

and i wouldnt call that failure at all, it serves Yah in a weird way or it wouldnt exist yeh?
the heir is under servants until he inherits

Truly God is control of the whole flow of things even though people make their own choices. There is the left hand of God as well as the right. We get to choose sides.

 

[bbyrd009]

Truly God is control of the whole of things even though people make their own choices. There is the left hand of God as well as the right. We get to choose sides.

ha or stop choosing sides
but i learned a lot from every cong i went through :)

 

[amadeus]

ha or stop choosing sides
but i learned a lot from every cong i went through :)

Oh, so did I my friend, so did I. Now I am loose from such a particular place. This forum is my most regular daily place, but something in me makes me at least visit others. I would like to say that I could not ever get hooked in to one congregation again, but then I remember that I don't know everything that God knows.

 

[brakelite]

You may recall that Jesus also asked the very same question you asked at the beginning of this thread. It would seem @bbyrd009 that you don't agree with the apostle, or the revealing Father, regarding the following...
KJV Matthew 16
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Here we have Peter, the holy Spirit, the Father, and Jesus all in agreement that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Yet you seem determined to make Jesus and Christ separate individuals. You accept that there are certainly fake Christ's, and agreed with my post on fake Jesus... But seem totally reluctant to accept that there is a real Jesus. You seem to be one of those I described as saying the real Jesus is spiritually still here (not quite sure what you mean by that word 'spiritually', not that I necessarily disagree with you) but you also refuse to accept the testimony of anyone claiming to know that spiritual Jesus unless that incorporate some sense of doubt in and loathing for their own words.
Yet Jesus Himself, and the scriptures generally, testify that we can indeed know the real Jesus, and what's more be confident in that knowledge. Now while we may not know Him fully (who can ever fully know and understand Infinity and perfection) what we do know of a certainty are those things which He has revealed, particularly in regards His character and love for us as individuals and as a community of believers.

KJV John 17
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

KJV 1 John 1
John's Reason for Writing
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

KJV 1 John 2
To Know God Is to Obey
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

KJV 1 John 5
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh, so did I my friend, so did I. Now I am loose from such a particular place. This forum is my most regular daily place, but something in me makes me at least visit others. I would like to say that I could not ever get hooked in to one congregation again, but then I remember that I don't know everything that God knows.

the harvest is plenty, the workers few
but hey i avoid them myself lol

 

[bbyrd009]

It would seem @bbyrd009 that you don't agree with the apostle, or the revealing Father, regarding the following...

i agree with the words, it is the context they are usually understood in that i might haves issue with, if it could be called that. We are presented a sacrifice bc we think Yah wanted one, but Scripture makes plain that that is not the rest of the story

Yet you seem determined to make Jesus and Christ separate individuals

really Jesus Himself works fine as a High Priest imo, i would just say kinda understand what that maybe means, like an example, a pattern to follow
rather than what our definition of worship has become

 

[FollowHim]

Jesus is Word, right?

Jesus is Gods Word, in human form.
Everything God utters and speaks forth is Jesus. When you write down words, they are the concepts that come out ones mind and take shape on the page or screen. They exist separate from the writer, but they are an expression of who the writer is and have an intention and meaning.
John the gospel writer says this is Jesus.

 

[mjrhealth]

well, all i can say there is that ive tried other theories on in my walk, for like a short time, brief season maybe, and this does not seem to be going like that. And i dont need you to Quote anything, ok? Its cool. As i said, might even be a coincidence :)

What did you expect. That your life would suddenly get better, the sun would shine on you everyday. A walk with God is like a safari, one day your riding around enjoying the scenery, than the rain is dumped on you, your soaked through, your uncomfortable, it muggy your sweating, than out comes the sun, your clothes are dried, the flowers are in bloom, the birds are chirping, than out the corner comes a roaring lion, your terrified, you dont know whether to run or stand still, your afraid to look away lest he should charge, than the lion turns and runs, and when you turn around you realize you where never alone, your best friend was right there beside you all the time, you where just to busy looking at that what your feared, than on the one who loves you.

And that is what it is like with God every day, God is an adventure if you love adventures.

God bless

 

[brakelite]

We are presented a sacrifice bc we think Yah wanted one, but Scripture makes plain that that is not the rest of the story

Elsewhere you loosely quote what you believe scripture says... No man can die for another man's sins... Yet we know Jesus was certainly human/man, so how do you read the following?

KJV Galatians 1
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

KJV 1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

KJV 1 Peter 2
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

KJV 1 John 2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV 1 John 3
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
KJV 1 John 4
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[Taken]

yeh, Christ, as differentiated from Jesus

Yes!
Scripture foretells, called Prophecy.
Scripture reveals, called Order.
Scripture manifests, called Way.

Scripture: foretold:
The Word of God:
1) shall come forth out of Gods mouth.
2) shall enter the womb of a faithful Jewish virgin.
3) by law of nature; (9 months), the virgin
....will be conceived (pregnant)
....after (9 months), a son will be delivered
4) the Son;
....Is anointed of God (high Priest)
....Is holy, (without sin)
....Is called (Jewish), according to man's law
....Is called (son), of the Jewish woman.."^
....shall be called; Son of man.
....shall be called; Son of God.
....shall be called; JESUS
....shall be called; God with us.
....shall be called; Word of God.
....shall be called; Lamb of God
....shall be called; Savior

These things are About Gods WORKS.

Gods prophecy Fulfilled.
Gods order Revealed.
Gods way Manifested.

What About "A Humans WORKS" ?

Scripture is Clear;
1) every individual has Freewill
2) come to Jesus AS A Child.

AS A Child? Yes.
Hear, Learn, Read the "Basics" First.

Use you Freewill, to Choose to Believe...or Not.

Believe....and God Will give you Faith.
Reject Belief...and God Will withhold Faith.

That Simple.

Keep Learning & Believing & Continue ... Faith Given Increases.

As Faith is INcreased - so Also is the Desire of the individual INcreased to FOREVER want to Be with THEIR God.

WHEN...an individual Freely decides THEY ARE prepared to make a Commitment TO FOREVER Be with their God...

The Individual makes Their own Vow To Their Lord Jesus.

^^^^^It is THEN^^^^^^
The Lord God Himself "Reveals" to That Individual...JESUS, The WORD of God...
Is The CHRIST of God.

You may have, like many others Heard and Read that Jesus IS the CHRIST ....

You may have, or known other men, who have "BELIEVED and SAID" Jesus IS the CHRIST...and THEN...SAID, they "STOPPED" Believing THAT.

^^^^^^THEY^^^^^^ were NEVER
Given Direct VERIFICATION By God Himself that Jesus IS The Christ.

Point being...Human men Can and Do make claims and change Their MINDS.

Point being...God Does Not ACCEPT Confession/Vow of A mans Belief IN Him, from a mans MIND ....but RATHER...from a mans Confession/Vow of Belief IN God, From the Mans HEART.

Every individual must decide WHY they are calling JESUS the CHRIST.....
Is It Because:
They heard that from other men?
Read that in a book?
OR
God Himself Spiritually Revealed that TO them.


There is Nothing God Fortold, Revealed, Manifested, Directed men To Write, Directed men To Teach...that MENTIONED "apollo", or God wearing "dress".

as an object of worship or icon
bc this is inevitably Apollos worship in a dress,

Men who worship alollos are not worshiping the Lord God Almighty.

You appear to be intrigued By what "Men" IN "And" OF the world Teach, Believe and DO".

Gods Word teaches... All human men are IN the WORLD....and SOME (Not All)...SHALL Become, (By and through Him), No longer "OF" the World....(They are reconciled, BY Gods WAY, Being MADE, "OF" God.) <-- Via Gods SEED.

Jesus is "Returning" {even though that cant be Quoted}

Uh...disagree.

Acts 1:
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

to either whisk all of us {"when we all get to heaven..."} away, or Transform our present

Uh...Disagree.

"All"? No.
Jesus ascended From the Earth TO the Clouds, Then To Heaven.

Jesus SHALL Descend From Heaven TO the Clouds...and Call UP TO Him...ONLY...Those men That HAVE already Committed TO Him....

reality instantaneously and miraculously,

Yes. QUICK by the Power of God.

usually associated with a "very soon"

Yes. God is NOT constrained BY TIME.
Mankind IS constrained BY Time. Every individual mans natural life time is SHORT...
Between 1 day and 120 years...AND men NOT knowing The length that applies to Them.

to be coming climactic battle--

You SKIPPED...an enormous Revealing in Gods Word....that occurs Before a climactic battle.

one that many believers believe they will be literally fighting in--

Sure. as well, many Believers have Not made a Vow of Heartful Commitment To God and Received the Truth of God or His Understanding OF His Truth.

and Jesus literally accepting a Crown, etc,

Jesus has already Accepted His Position...and Revealed His position...Men simply WAIT To SEE Him As He IS.

but hardly no one takes literally what the Pastor said as they were being ritually baptized...

Baptism "by" men IS A Ritual, men can see.
Baptism "BY" the Holy Spirit of God, is the Unseen, (by mans eyes) Transformation of Death To Ever lasting Life.

there is a Scripture No son of man may die for another's sins that you kinda should contemplate along with that maybe
how to make the two agree

Perhaps you could quote the Scripture you are referencing.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Yet we know Jesus was certainly human/man

certainly ;)
gotta be an AT right, beliefs just arent good enough are they lol

Elsewhere you loosely quote what you believe scripture says... No man can die for another man's sins... Yet we know Jesus was certainly human/man, so how do you read the following?

KJV Galatians 1
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

KJV 1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

KJV 1 Peter 2
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

KJV 1 John 2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV 1 John 3
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
KJV 1 John 4
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

no idea, more or less threw me for a loop too, my current best guess is that i killed Christ when i found the world, "Christ died for our sins"

 

[bbyrd009]

Elsewhere you loosely quote what you believe scripture says... No man can die for another man's sins...

what do you believe these say then?

Perhaps you could quote the Scripture you are referencing.

i have done already, many times, and google gets one there too, but sure,
Ezekiel 18:20 Lexicon: "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
Psalm 49:7 Lexicon: No man can by any means redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him--
also in the Devarim...um, Deuteronomy, worded diff

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus is Gods Word, in human form.
Everything God utters and speaks forth is Jesus. When you write down words, they are the concepts that come out ones mind and take shape on the page or screen. They exist separate from the writer, but they are an expression of who the writer is and have an intention and meaning.
John the gospel writer says this is Jesus.

nice, my arg here is that John the writer worked with other authors to convey a concept that had intention and meaning, that also had to be hidden from the wise, and so a cover story that all us bloodthirsty Esaus would accept via "stay here for the present" was written, to appease the bloodthirsty god that we all believe exists, and even worship

 

[bbyrd009]

There is Nothing God Fortold, Revealed, Manifested, Directed men To Write, Directed men To Teach...that MENTIONED "apollo", or God wearing "dress".

you are kidding right, there is plenty of it, its everywhere ok. What you have told me here is that it is more or less as pointless Quoting them now as it was when i was talking to pEnoch? Where did he go?
Apollos is even mentioned by name a couple times?
so no offense but you are def a Mithraist, i was too, most Christians are even, only this wont be heard they way i mean it, i mean Yah still loves you, etc, even if you believe Jesus (Apollos) is going to Return or return just long enough to come take you somewhere, doesnt matter what one believes about the future esp anyway, there is no judgement for beliefs?

but imo naturally if you believe Jesus is literally about to Return, your actions in and even connection with Today will be altered, right

 

[bbyrd009]

so, if youre already convinced you definitely already know who Jesus is, this thread is not really for you i guess right now ok; the q was meant to be rhetorical iow

 

[FollowHim]

nice, my arg here is that John the writer worked with other authors to convey a concept that had intention and meaning, that also had to be hidden from the wise, and so a cover story that all us bloodthirsty Esaus would accept via "stay here for the present" was written, to appease the bloodthirsty god that we all believe exists, and even worship

You are right, that there is an aspect you could argue God is bloodthirsty. But if you look around, this world is full of creatures built to show support and affection for their own, and defence and aggression to threats and outsiders. Death only happens when things fail, come to the end of their life. So I do not see "bloodthirsty", rather efficiency and what works at its optimum. It could be we are the bloodthirsty ones, when things go to pot we tend to selfishly kill and declare our dominance.