The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[justbyfaith]

Jesus promised that “the gates of Hell will prevail against” His Church (Matt 16:18).

Will not.

That is why, when the church became absolutely corrupt as an organization, God called out Luther to the truth, so that he could also lead others into the truth, thus preserving the faithful remnant in those whom God called out of the Catholic Church in his day.

No need to correct your typo in the original post in which it was written. It is corrected here.

 

[RogerDC]

These words seem to indicate to me that you believe that Jesus is not risen.

These words seem to indicate that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[RogerDC]

....as his contemporaries all around him bow.

Bowing is evil? Where does the Bible say that?

 

[RogerDC]

Then Jesus violated the 4th Commandment, you claim that Jesus sinned. What a warped view! Jesus never condemned repetition, He condemned VANITY, which proves you can't read Scripture!

The nuance in your argument will no doubt go right over their heads ...

 

[RogerDC]

In Matthew 6:7, Jesus didn't say "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do:"?

It says "VAIN repetitions", not "repetitions".

 

[RogerDC]

And knew her not until she brought forth her but first born son; and he called his name Jesus.

....and knew her not until..

You've just make a mistake that lots of Bible beginners make.

 

[Candidus]

It says "VAIN repetitions", not "repetitions".

Thank you for affirming that Jesus is right, and how the failure of the semantics of sophistry fails.

 

[Truther]

You've just make a mistake that lots of Bible beginners make.

What, reading without presupposition?

 

[Truther]

Bowing is evil? Where does the Bible say that?

To a stature?, yes.

 

[Truther]

Depends on what type of believer. The nominal, shallow, or lukewarm believer can indeed fall away (Luke 8:13).

However, the Christian with the fear of the LORD (Jeremiah 32:38-40, Psalms 19:9) who has a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10), cannot (John 5:24, John 6:47, John 10:27-30) (here we go again...)



The blood of Jesus does indeed sanctify (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7)...if you would be willing to look up the verses.



That makes no sense at all. What He is saying is that Christian believers who say to Him Lord, Lord, and do not do what He says are not true Christians at all...He literally has never known them.



You do understand that Jesus is God? There is only one mediator between God and man.



So you are saying that Mary is the mother of Jesus' Deity? That would make Mary God in some fashion...and I suppose that this is the next doctrine to broach the Catholic spectrum of belief.



I don't think that @Truther believes that Jesus isn't God...he is Oneness: among the ranks of those who believe that Jesus is the Father.



It does in my book.



You should take a wild look at some Protestant churches...you won't find the same apostasy there...but a moving of the Holy Spirit (not in all Protestant denominations; but in some: you just need to have a keen eye for knowing living water when you see it).

Actually, I am modified oneness. A 1st century type of it.

 

[Truther]

If so, why did Jesus, just before he died, place Mary under the care of one of the apostles (John 19: 26-27)? That makes no sense if Mary had other children to look after her.

Because John was standing right there and was Jesus' biggest fan.

 

[Truther]

St. Ignatius, the third Bishop of Antioch, in a letter to the Smyrnaeans, dated circa 110 AD, refers to his Church as “the Catholic Church”. So “the Catholic Church” existed centuries before Constantine made the Catholic Church the “Roman state church”.

Whoever that fella was....

Pentecost did not start in 110 ad.

 

[Truther]

If Jesus is not God, why does Col 1:16 says “all things were created THROUGH HIM and FOR HIM”?

And why does Col 1:19 says “ALL the FULLNESS OF GOD was pleased to dwell” in Jesus?

He is God by default per the Col 2:9 effect on his omnipresent(quickening spirit) body after his resurrection.

He is fully indwelled by all the fullness of his God, bodily, making him our God.

God(his Father), speaks and works through his son.

 

[Truther]

The man, Christ Jesus is the one mediator between God and man, but the Church is “the body (and) the fullness” of Christ Jesus (Eph 1:22), who is the “head” of the Church (Col 1:18). Since the Church is the “fullness” of Christ, and since the head cannot be separated from the body, the Church shares (albeit in a lesser way) in the roles and powers of Christ, such as the role of mediator between God and man. However, the Church’s role as mediator is subordinate to Christ’s role as mediator, since the head controls the body.

Furthermore, where does the Bible say there can be no mediators between man and “the man, Christ Jesus”?

You failed.

It says one mediator....

You picked the priest and not Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

Funny, I was brought up Catholic and I never once prayed to a statue or even in front of a statue. Nor did I ever witness a priest telling anyone to pray to a statue.

New kind of Catholic?

I am 58, and in my childhood in San Jose CA, we had to.

I spent hours over those years in front of "Mary" on my knees, with candles lit around her and an offering box at her feet.

 

[Truther]

Nevertheless, what the 1st century Church taught must have been taught by the Church later on, in the centuries that followed. Unfortunately for your claims, the only pre-Reformation Church that historians can find in the centuries after the 1st century is the Catholic Church.

Furthermore, nowhere in the NT does it say all the beliefs, doctrines and practices of the 1st century Church are recorded therein, so the NT cannot be used as a definitive guide for identifying the 1st century Church.

No, the 1st century Church doctrine and experience is accurately depicted in Acts through Revelation.

You are either part of that particular church or you are not.

The only way to be assured you are part of that Church is if your doctrine and experience is a mirror image of what is found in those books.

Nothing else matters.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matt 1:25 says ....”....he knew her not until..”

Right, sometimes a fella has to wait until the right time.

Only a celibate priest would be puzzled by this statement in Matt.

Yup - just Like Mary was puzzled by the Angel's message because it was her intention to remain a virgin.

You can't win on this one because you can't produce ONE SHRED of Scriptural evidence that I haven't shot down in flames - with Scripture . . .

 

[Truther]

Yup - just Like Mary was puzzled by the Angel's message because it was her intention to remain a virgin.

You can't win on this one because you can't produce ONE SHRED of Scriptural evidence that I haven't shot down in flames - with Scripture . . .

Matt 1:25 says ....”....he knew her not until..”

Right, sometimes a fella has to wait until the right time.

Only a celibate priest would be puzzled by this statement in Matt.


....not one shred?

 

[BreadOfLife]

The woman in Rev 12 is Israel. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes.
Get it right.

Ahhhh - more of your patented ignorance.
Time for another Bible lesson . . .

Ummmmm, let's start with the fact that Chapter and Verse weren't added to Scripture until it was added by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages. EVERY Book of the Bible was written as ONE long, continuous letter with NO chapter breaks - NO verse numbers.

Still with me, Einstein?
Let's move on . . .

In the Book of Revelation, we see the New Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19: Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1): A great sign appeared in the sky, a WOMAN clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Verse 2 says: She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read: She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.

There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman here in Revelation 12 is Mary.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The woman in Rev 12 is Israel. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes.

Get it right.

Oh - and here is a SCRIPTURAL comparison chart to educate you about the facr that Mary is the Ark of the NEW Covenant (Jesus),
She is the NT Fulfillment of the OT Type that was the Ark . . .

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).