True Trinity.

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justbyfaith

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Unity is to be based in truth; and not to be achieved at the expense of truth.

There is one Spirit, one Jesus, and one gospel.

Some preach a different spirit, a different Jesus, and a different gospel from that of the Bible (a spirit, Jesus, and gospel that cannot save).

It is not necessarily the flesh that leads a man to point this out.

The motivation of love is in prospect.
 

Prayer Warrior

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Okay, don't worry, take your time.

I want to take this opportunity to tell everyone that I am moving into a motel with my wife and that I therefore may not have access to the internet any longer.

The lady whose house we were living in passed away and her house is going back to the bank because of a reverse mortgage...

And my wife's credit rating is too low for us to even get an apartment.

So beginning tomorrow, I may not be able to post for a while.

Just wanted you to know that I'm praying for you and your wife. Even though I haven't posted, I've been following this thread.
 
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Grailhunter

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Unity is to be based in truth; and not to be achieved at the expense of truth.

There is one Spirit, one Jesus, and one gospel.

Some preach a different spirit, a different Jesus, and a different gospel from that of the Bible (a spirit, Jesus, and gospel that cannot save).

It is not necessarily the flesh that leads a man to point this out.

The motivation of love is in prospect.
But still it would be good to inherit the kingdom of Heaven.....I wonder what level has football and big screen tv's
 

JustAskin

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Jesus Christ is a man consecrated by Almighty God.

He is the Second and Last Adam, meaning that he was not born by the seed of mankind but pure, sinless and Holy, by Almighty God, himself. Adam being first made similarly.

In the beginning, God created heaven and earth and purposes that man should rule over this creation. Being made in the image of God, the first man, Adam, WAS to be the king over all others. However, on sinning, Adam lost his position as ‘Son of God’, meaning that he had erred in doing the work of his Father God. And, indeed, the scriptural meaning of ‘Son’ is:
  • “He who does the works of the Father”
Jesus stated this is speaking to the Jews:
  • “I only said I was the SON OF GOD... if I am not doing his works then do not believe me..”
And another verse states:
  • “All who do the works of the Spirit are children of God” (never mind the plural.. it is still referring to ‘Son’ - and not the gender, either)
Avoiding these definitions leads to wrongful ideas on the term, ‘Son of God’ in which believers imagine a ‘Son-God’, which is EXACTLY what Christianity is to avoid.

And, in terms of a trinity, there is no such thing. No scripture verse ever makes a tri-connectivity of three persons as a One God.

Indeed, the very term ‘One God’ is a misconception of literature. Almighty God never claimed to be A ONE GOD... but rather, he stated that he is:
  • ‘THE ONLY GOD’...
It requires no great mind to understand how this confusion and misconception of a ‘One God’ led to the idea that this One God is THREE PERSONS... Is it easier to convert pagans to Christianity if you infiltrate and adulterate Christianity with pagan ideas? Yes, of course!!!

But the truth seekers will understand that there was no concept of a ‘One God’ as three in any scripture... in fact, ask for a trinity verse from the scriptures and NOT A SINGLE VERSE will be shown to state this.

Jesus, himself, said, ‘I and the Father, are one!’... where is the declaration of a trinity?

Jesus said, ‘I am going TO the Father!’. Where is the trinity?

Stephen, being stoned, saw Heaven open in vision and saw....:
  • ALMIGHTY GOD SEATED on his throne
and:
  • Jesus STANDING NEXT TO ALMIGHTY GOD
What theological lacking is their in the minds of Trinitarians that excuses their lack of spirituality to not understand the significance of the Father SEATED and Jesus STANDING (Check how this is echoed in the book of Revelation). It is for sure that the one STANDING is not GOD... but also significant... There are only TWO PERSON... trinity? Where is trinity basic arithmetic??

God, our God, stated to his favoured nation that, He, and He alone (here is the ‘One’) was to be their God. Be it that, though they were surrounded by pagan tribes and nations who believe in MANY GOD, YOU (Israelites) are to believe that:
  • ‘I am [your] ONE [and only] GOD’
Jesus Christ states this plainly:
  • ‘Father, this means everlasting life that they should believe in you, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and in Jesus Christ, the one YOU sent’
The latter statement of Jesus being sent by God, by the Father, is required seeing that, even now, there are many who do not believe that the Saviour, the Messiah, has come. And that this Saviour has redeemed us from the sin of the first man, Adam.

Jesus, Holy and sinless throughout his early life, was ‘Chosen’ by the Father to be ‘His Word’ to his people. God TAUGHT Jesus as a Father teaches his son - to do his will... and Jesus tells us this:
  • “The things you see me do, the words you hear me say, ARE NOT MINE BUT OF THOSE OF HIM WHO SENT ME”
How does anyone STILL proclaim that the AMBASSADOR who speak the words the king gave him to speak, IS THE KING, himself?
Indeed, if the ambassador claims himself TK be the king, he is in grave danger (literally!!) and Jesus says:
  • “I did not call myself God”
So why are there persons here who say he did?

I have more to say but can’t say it all in one post!
 
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justbyfaith

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Jesus stated this is speaking to the Jews:
  • “I only said I was the SON OF GOD... if I am not doing his works then do not believe me..”

If Jesus said that He is the Son of God, then He is claiming to be the mighty God; even Jehovah (see Psalms 50:1 (kjv)): and the everlasting Father (...Isaiah 9:6).

Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Jesus said, in John 8:24, that if you do not believe that He is the great I AM, you will die in your sins.

Avoiding these definitions leads to wrongful ideas on the term, ‘Son of God’ in which believers imagine a ‘Son-God’, which is EXACTLY what Christianity is to avoid.

You are going to have to deal with the fact that the Deity of Christ has been, is now, and always will be a major tenet of real Christianity.

And, in terms of a trinity, there is no such thing. No scripture verse ever makes a tri-connectivity of three persons as a One God.

I suppose that you are among those who believe that the Johannine comma (1 John 5:7 (kjv)) is not inspired. In doing so, you take away from the word of God (see Revelation 22:19 (kjv)) thus heaping condemnation on yourself.

1Jo 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

But the truth seekers will understand that there was no concept of a ‘One God’ as three in any scripture... in fact, as for a trinity verse from the scriptures and NOT A SINGLE VERSE will be shown to state this.

1 John 5:7 in the kjv aside...a single verse does not have to be shown to state it for it to be the teaching of scripture.

1Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 1:21, For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Tit 1:3, But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;


True Trinity.

Jesus Christ states this plainly:
  • ‘Father, this means everlasting life that they should believe in you, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and in Jesus Christ, the one YOU sent’

"even Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent"

and Jesus says:
  • “I did not call myself God”

chapter and verse?
 
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JustAskin

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justbyfaith said:

“If Jesus said that He is the Son of God, then He is claiming to be the mighty God; even Jehovah (see Psalms 50:1 (kjv)): and the everlasting Father (...Isaiah 9:6).”​

No, he is not.
“Everlasting Father” is a reference to Jesus giving eternal life to those who are judged worthy at the end of time. The term: ‘Father’ means:
  • ‘He who gives life’
  • ‘He that brings into being’
  • ‘He that is the head’
  • (among other things)
Tim Burners-Lee is ‘The Father’ of the Internet... James Naysmith is ‘the Father’ of Basketball, ...etc. Almighty God is our spiritual Father because he gave spiritual life to every one of us. But we lost the privilege of ETERNAL LIFE because of Adam. Even though the Sin of Adam is removed - we still remain in our OWN PERSONAL sinful state. At the judgement seat, these sins are judged by Jesus Christ, and HE will GIVE either ETERNAL DEATH (of the Spirit) or ETERNAL LIFE in both body and Spirit. THEREFORE He will be THE ETERNAL FATHER... (and note the FUTURE TENSE!)

As for the rest of what you said... you are so far purposely in error that I can only imagine your playful self is paramount in all your discussion whenever you come across a spiritual and scriptural truth. You quote verses suggesting that anyone who does not believe the fallacy of your false ideology is doomed... perhaps you are looking in a mirror! Don’t forget that Jesus will judge you, too!
 
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JustAskin

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omg, some naive dialectic
ty
I’m not sure what you are meaning in your subjective remark but if it’s what I’m thinking then I can answer you by saying that I’m trying not to judge justbyfaith himself but only what he has written. You may know him better and dan judge his intent, but I am new here. Hell, yeah, I’ve seen and expressed dismay at his overplayful and deliberate obfuscation of anything that resembles truth concerning trinity but I’m not going to predict his future posts by declaring him an outright ‘Satan’ (opposer) because perhaps he’s just been staunchly indoctrinated snd feels fearfilled at believing anything that is not Catholic!

But, to all, I ask:
  • What are the ultimate aims of Jesus Christ?
(Hints:
  • To do the will of his Father AND GOD
  • To not abuse the power and authority over creation invested in by his Father AND GOD
  • To live his life Holy and sinless (adhere to 1 and 2)
  • To GIVE his unblemished life in the meek manner that an animal sacrifice is carried out
  • To be raised again BY his Father AND GOD
  • To be made IMMORTAL (how is he God if he has to become immortal?)
  • To be raised up to be a Spirit in Heaven, seated next to his GOD and Father (If next to God means he IS God then next to his Father should also mean that he IS his Father... agree?)
  • To fulfil the prophecies of his God and Father
  • To be seated as KING over Creation (If he is God then how is it a reward to be made king over what he created - he ALREADY Would be King!)
 
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justbyfaith

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I noticed that you had no answer to Psalms 50:1 (kjv).

You ought to consider that the mighty God is Jehovah and Jesus.
 

justbyfaith

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No, he is not.
“Everlasting Father” is a reference to Jesus giving eternal life to those who are judged worthy at the end of time. The term: ‘Father’ means:
  • ‘He who gives life’
  • ‘He that brings into being’
  • ‘He that is the head’
  • (among other things)
Tim Burners-Lee is ‘The Father’ of the Internet... James Naysmith is ‘the Father’ of Basketball, ...etc. Almighty God is our spiritual Father because he gave spiritual life to every one of us. But we lost the privilege of ETERNAL LIFE because of Adam. Even though the Sin of Adam is removed - we still remain in our OWN PERSONAL sinful state. At the judgement seat, these sins are judged by Jesus Christ, and HE will GIVE either ETERNAL DEATH (of the Spirit) or ETERNAL LIFE in both body and Spirit. THEREFORE He will be THE ETERNAL FATHER... (and note the FUTURE TENSE!)
Since God is eternal I think I can make my case...that the eternal God is the everlasting Father; and that we have but one Father, who is God (Malachi 2:10).

Jesus is plainly the Word; and He was in the beginning with God; and He was God.

God is God from everlasting to everlasting according to Psalms 90:2.

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). No one can say that Jesus is the Lord (and thus the Father) except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).

And Jesus is, in fact, the Lord, and thus the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Philippians 2:10-11).
 

SovereignGrace

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Since God is eternal I think I can make my case...that the eternal God is the everlasting Father; and that we have but one Father, who is God (Malachi 2:10).

Jesus is plainly the Word; and He was in the beginning with God; and He was God.

God is God from everlasting to everlasting according to Psalms 90:2.

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). No one can say that Jesus is the Lord (and thus the Father) except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).

And Jesus is, in fact, the Lord, and thus the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Philippians 2:10-11).
Again my friend, you are melding Modalism with your Trinity model. You are saying the Son and Father are the same person, and that’s not Trinitarian talk. That’s Modalism. The Father is not the Son and vice versa.
 
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bbyrd009

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Since God is eternal I think I can make my case...that the eternal God is the everlasting Father; and that we have but one Father, who is God (Malachi 2:10).

Jesus is plainly the Word; and He was in the beginning with God; and He was God.

God is God from everlasting to everlasting according to Psalms 90:2.

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). No one can say that Jesus is the Lord (and thus the Father) except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).

And Jesus is, in fact, the Lord, and thus the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Philippians 2:10-11).
about as warped as Apollos worship gets imo
 

justbyfaith

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The Father is not the Son and vice versa.

The Father is not the Son; for He inhabits eternity and is not in the flesh except after He descended to dwell in flesh.

However, the Son is the Father in that the Father is the Spirit who dwells within Him as the Person of the God Son (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

There is one God (James 2:19), even the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6, James 3:9).

But the Son is also God. He is either a second God/Person, count it, two Gods, or else He is the same God/Person.

Think about it.
 

SovereignGrace

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The Father is not the Son; for He inhabits eternity and is not in the flesh except after He descended to dwell in flesh.

However, the Son is the Father in that the Father is the Spirit who dwells within Him as the Person of the God Son (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

There is one God (James 2:19), even the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6, James 3:9).

But the Son is also God. He is either a second God/Person, count it, two Gods, or else He is the same God/Person.

Think about it.

I have thought about it. I was once a borderline Modalist and then I went into Arianism. Thankfully, God led me away from both of them.

The Father and Son are not the same Person. They are two distinct Persons. Just as the Holy Spirit is a distinct Person, and all Three comprise the Godhead.

Yes, there is one God. I agree. Yes there is the Father. I agree. But the Father and Son are not the same person.

One Being, three Persons. That's the Trinity. :)
 

JustAskin

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I noticed that you had no answer to Psalms 50:1 (kjv).

You ought to consider that the mighty God is Jehovah and Jesus.
justbyfaith, the verse does not claim Jesus as the mighty God. It says [YHWH] is ‘the mighty ONE, GOD...’

You notice that this declaration in the PRESENT TENSE. The reference in Isaiah concerning the PROPHECY of a child to be a saviour and ‘mighty God’ is FUTURE TENSE.

As always, a prophecy is shrouded in SYMBOLISM. And, in any case, it seems that no one really considers that the TITLE, ‘GOD’, is also a UNIVERSAL term for a great person.
Jesus Christ stated this to the Jews in John 10. I will quote quite a bit of John 10 to illustrate several points:
  • “(24) So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
    • The Jews desire to know for definite who this man, Jesus, is... Is he the Christ, the one prophesied in the Torah?
  • (25) Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me,
    • Jesus is exasperated but answers them civilly, emphasising that he is ’doing the works of his Father’ (this is the definition of the spiritual term, ‘SON’)
  • (26) but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
    • These ‘Sheep’ are the true full time believers - not any ‘now and again, blue-sky’ believers
  • (28) I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand
    • These sheep HAVE NOT YET gotten eternal life, so Jesus’ statement must be a prophecy - He SHALL (a definite) give them ETERNAL LIFE
  • (29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
    • Jesus RECEIVES these sheep FROM his Father. Jesus declares an absolute: that his Father is ALMIGHTY (‘greater than all’ - which is also a definition of ‘THE GOD’: ‘God of ALL who are called Gods’). jbf, I don’t know what your god is like but the true God lacks nothing - Jesus receives the sheep OWNED BY his Father, therefore Jesus cannot be ‘Gods.
  • (30) I and the Father are one.”
    • This is ‘one in agreement’. But nonetheless, if you are going to force a point of trinity, then notice that this declares a BINITY... TWO as one... but we know there is no such ideology, never mind a Theology! In fact, at another time later, Jesus declares that the ‘sheep’ should become ‘one’ with the Father and himself... hey, there is a TRINITY... THREE AS ONE : The Father, The Son, and ... THE SHEEP!!
  • (31) The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. (32) Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
    • Jesus, again, states that he is doing the works of the Father, the works assigned to him FROM the Father... they are not HIS (Jesus’) works, but FROM the Father, from ALMIGHTY GOD
  • (33) The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
    • The Jews are furious that a man should declare himself as ‘doing GOD’s work’. They well understand that someone ‘doing the works of God’ must be a MIGHTY PERSON. And, of course, a mighty one of God is ’a SON OF GOD’.
  • (34) Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
    • The Jews know these saying. They know ’the law’. They cannot deny the truth if it - it ’cannot be broken’: MIGHTY MEN of the past, their forefathers, prophets, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joseph, Samuel, Levi, Nathan, David, Solomon, ... were called ‘Gods’, by the Almighty God. It was to King David, FIRST, in fact, that the Apostle quoted from the verse: ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever...’ a prophecy of the eternal throne of David, which later, Jesus SHALL OCCUPY -David’s ETERNAL THRONE. So are you going to deny that David was called ‘GOD’... why, even SATAN is called ‘GOD’* ... where is your denial, jbf??
      • Did Almighty God call himself ‘The God of this age!?’
    • *2 Cor 4:4 “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
  • (36) do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
    • Jesus declares himself as ‘SON of God’... ‘I did not even call myself God - but only the SON of God so why do you say I blaspheme??’ and that he has been ‘consecrated by the Father’. God does not consecrate God... God does not consecrate himself.
      • Consecrated: ‘Assigned/Ordained to an office of high importance’: ‘make or declare [as] sacred; dedicate formally to a religious purpose.’
  • (37) If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; (38) but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
    • Jesus again emphasises that he is doing the works of the Father - which makes him ‘Son of God’. Almighty God ASSIGNS work to his ‘Servants’, his ‘Holy Sons’... he does not assign works to himself. A Servant of God is not much different to a Son of God. The holy angels are SPIRIT SONS of God, and Jesus Christ is a HUMAN Son of God: the Spiritual image of the Almighty. An TRUE IMAGE can ONLY do what it’s projector does... it cannot do of itself... Jesus is a true HUMAN IMAGE of the Almighty.