The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[mjrhealth]

The Catechism does not run against Scripture. It is peppered with Scripture on every page. It is not a do-it-yourself manual. It wouldn't be so wordy if it weren't for the constant challenges from an ever changing world. Anti-Catholics never approach the Catechism properly.

Going to find that hard to push a lot ox ex catholics on here who left the great whore, something to do with" come out of her my people" I guess those who remain are not His.

 

[Enow]

The bread and wine are symbols, in that they retain the substance of bread and wine, but are at the same time the body and blood of Christ.

They are either symbols or God changed them as CC teaches into the actual body and blood like Jesus did the water into wine.

This is a profound mystery that can only be accepted by faith (John 6:60-63).… only if God is not present in the bread and wine.

Since God wants us to abstain from all appearances of evil, then He would never go back on His word about what makes an inanimate object made by man's hands, an idol. Sinners as idolaters, would call God a hypocrite by His own words for what is being done in "holy communion" aka the Mass.

Says you. But Jesus said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you” (John 6:53).

Says Jesus.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

If Jesus was talking about communion in that chapter, then you would only take communion once to testify to His promise above that you will never hunger nor thirst for that again, but since communion is taught to do in remembrance of Him, then it can only be symbolic and Jesus was talking about how to be saved in John 6th chapter and not about communion at all.

Indeed, the Jews had asked for that bread of life and His answer wasn't, "it's not that time yet", but come to and believe in Him was His answer on how to receive that bread of life.

 

[Enow]

Thank you.

You are welcome.

The Catechism does not run against Scripture. It is peppered with Scripture on every page. It is not a do-it-yourself manual. It wouldn't be so wordy if it weren't for the constant challenges from an ever changing world. Anti-Catholics never approach the Catechism properly.

There is such a thing as a "cafeteria" Catholic that do not believe everything about Catholicism and the Catholic Catechism.

There are some practices that are outright against scripture.

Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

I am aware of the reference to Paul use of the term father to himself but I do not believe he was using that to infer he was being called "father", but on how he felt responsible to the converted flock.

Peter in his epistle mentioned Paul and he did not address him as Father Paul, but as "brother Paul" and Paul did not address Peter in Galatians 2:11 as "father" Peter either.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

So just because CC uses Paul's reference for an excuse for why Catholics call them "fathers", Jesus plainly spoke against it and the lack of such titles to the disciples in the epistles shows the CC wanting for doing that practice.

Quite early on, the name catechesis was given to the totality of the Church's efforts to make disciples, to help men believe that Jesus is the Son of God so that believing they might have life in his name, and to educate and instruct them in this life, thus building up the body of Christ. [CCC #4]

"Catechesis is an education in the faith of children, young people and adults which includes especially the teaching of Christian doctrine imparted, generally speaking, in an organic and systematic way, with a view to initiating the hearers into the fullness of Christian life." [CCC #5]

This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church's Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church's Magisterium. It is intended to serve "as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries". [CCC #15]

This catechism is conceived as an organic presentation of the Catholic faith in its entirety. It should be seen therefore as a unified whole. [CCC #18]

The texts of Sacred Scripture are often not quoted word for word but are merely indicated by a reference (cf.). For a deeper understanding of such passages, the reader should refer to the Scriptural texts themselves. Such Biblical references are a valuable working-tool in catechesis. [CCC #19]

The use of small print in certain passages indicates observations of an historical or apologetic nature, or supplementary doctrinal explanations. [CCC #20]

The quotations, also in small print, from patristic, liturgical, magisterial or hagiographical sources, are intended to enrich the doctrinal presentations. These texts have often been chosen with a view to direct catechetical use. [CCC #21]

At the end of each thematic unit, a series of brief texts in small italics sums up the essentials of that unit's teaching in condensed formula. These IN BRIEF summaries may suggest to local catechists brief summary formula that could be memorized. [CCC #22]

The on-line pages of the Catechism of the Catholic Church are broken up into logical units, each containing the appropriate footnotes related to the text therein. These footnotes are not hyperlinked, but should be easily accesssible nonetheless.

How to use the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Numerous cross-references ... referring to other paragraphs that deal with the same theme ... allow the reader to view each theme in its relationship with the entirety of the faith. [CCC #18] To make this on-line version more usable and readable, cross-references are also hyperlinked. Numbered paragraphs with a cross-reference are hypertext linked using the paragraph number. Un-numbered paragraphs (normally titles) with a cross-reference are hypertext linked using an asterisk symbol preceeding the un-numbered paragraph. When clicked on, a JavaScript applet will be executed, opening a new window which displays the cross-reference paragraph number(s). Also note that the cross-reference paragarph numbers are presented chronologically; that is, the cross-reference numbers are provided in the order that they should be referenced.
Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS - Faith - Catechism of the Catholic Church - How To Read

It certainly has its use to making slaves to the CC which I'd say is not the same thing as being a slave to Christ. I thank you for sharing, but I am asking you to take a step back and look at the big picture here on what is going on around us and even down thru history for His discernment.

Pope Clement 1 had written an epistle to the Corinthians accusing them of jealousy for not giving a portion from their collection to the collectors from Rome that he had sent. That was the beginning of covetousness by the CC from Rome for how that paying tribute to the overhead began. Hardly a practice that Paul nor Peter started, mind you. What Paul had order was that portion be set aside for the support of missionaries in the field; not for paying tribute to the church of St. Peter or even to Peter himself since CC claims him as the first Pope.

How do you apply the Pope's announcement today for everyone not to convert any one?

What about the report of a few Catholic priests testifying to Satanists in the Vatican? Hardly sounds like a church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. It does show why Jesus had to rebuke Satan out of Peter because Peter wasn't the rock Jesus was building His Church on but Himself being the chief cornerstone.

Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

As opposing the doctrine of the infallible Pope, here is a Catholic Talk Show reporting the 7 worst Popes in Catholic history.

Now I know you are indoctrinated into the CC, and maybe all you can see is that indoctrination, but does reality really support such indoctrination?

 

[Waiting on him]

You are welcome.



There is such a thing as a "cafeteria" Catholic that do not believe everything about Catholicism and the Catholic Catechism.

There are some practices that are outright against scripture.

Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

I am aware of the reference to Paul use of the term father to himself but I do not believe he was using that to infer he was being called "father", but on how he felt responsible to the converted flock.

Peter in his epistle mentioned Paul and he did not address him as Father Paul, but as "brother Paul" and Paul did not address Peter in Galatians 2:11 as "father" Peter either.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

So just because CC uses Paul's reference for an excuse for why Catholics call them "fathers", Jesus plainly spoke against it and the lack of such titles to the disciples in the epistles shows the CC wanting for doing that practice.



It certainly has its use to making slaves to the CC which I'd say is not the same thing as being a slave to Christ. I thank you for sharing, but I am asking you to take a step back and look at the big picture here on what is going on around us and even down thru history for His discernment.

Pope Clement 1 had written an epistle to the Corinthians accusing them of jealousy for not giving a portion from their collection to the collectors from Rome that he had sent. That was the beginning of covetousness by the CC from Rome for how that paying tribute to the overhead began. Hardly a practice that Paul nor Peter started, mind you. What Paul had order was that portion be set aside for the support of missionaries in the field; not for paying tribute to the church of St. Peter or even to Peter himself since CC claims him as the first Pope.

How do you apply the Pope's announcement today for everyone not to convert any one?

What about the report of a few Catholic priests testifying to Satanists in the Vatican? Hardly sounds like a church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. It does show why Jesus had to rebuke Satan out of Peter because Peter wasn't the rock Jesus was building His Church on but Himself being the chief cornerstone.

Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

As opposing the doctrine of the infallible Pope, here is a Catholic Talk Show reporting the 7 worst Popes in Catholic history.

Now I know you are indoctrinated into the CC, and maybe all you can see is that indoctrination, but does reality really support such indoctrination?

Paul’s reference of himself as a father was referring to the seed of Jesus Christ in himself, and how he had sown this in to them the Gospel.
No son of God sees himself as above or better than any, he considers himself as less than all... this is what scripture teaches. This was a big issue at Corinth they had 10k instructors, but no fathers (no one hosting the seed); the Gospel.

 

[Enow]

Paul’s reference of himself as a father was referring to the seed of Jesus Christ in himself, and how he had sown this in to them the Gospel.
No son of God sees himself as above or better than any, he considers himself as less than all... this is what scripture teaches. This was a big issue at Corinth they had 10k instructors, but no fathers (no one hosting the seed); the Gospel.

Right, but still goes to point no one should be calling any Catholic priest or any Christian leader, "Father" per the title Jesus said for us not to do or be called by as an example.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You just admitted to being part of all the other fake religious concepts.

Except sola scriptura.....
That is the only reason a Christian is a Christian.

Wrong, Einstein - I don't believey any of the things I listed, especially the false, man-made invention pf Sola Scriptura.

It is an unscriptural Protestant perversion . . .

 

[Truther]

Wrong, Einstein - I don't believey any of the things I listed, especially the false, man-made invention pf Sola Scriptura.

It is an unscriptural Protestant perversion . . .

Either you adhere to sola scriptura or Popa unscriptura.

Pick one.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, so Joseph did not have to Hail Mary but we have to?
Why not him?

Nobody HAS to recite the Hail Mary, Einstein.
Just more of your patented ignorance . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

My understanding is, Protestants are material heretics, not formal heretics.

Correct.

 

[Enow]

Wrong, Einstein - I don't believey any of the things I listed, especially the false, man-made invention pf Sola Scriptura.

It is an unscriptural Protestant perversion . . .

What about perversions done by Popes in Catholic history? How does that deny the doctrine of the infallible Pope?

BTW This is a Catholic Show

 

[Truther]

Nobody HAS to recite the Hail Mary, Einstein.
Just more of your patented ignorance . . .

Sure folks do.

After visiting the priest in the black box to acquire remission of sins from "father so and so", he makes us pray 10 "hail Mary's" and 15 "our Father's", etc.
If not, our weekly remission cannot be complete.
Too bad the 1st century Church had no black box with a priest inside to find remission of sins, huh?

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are assuming something that has no Bible Authority. Mary was in the upper room in Acts and needed saving just as the other 120. She too was filled with the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the spirit gave the utterance.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Further, Jesus Himself says this about Mary...

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Soooo, does this mean that we should bow and scrape to all sisters named Mary?

You will also need to provide chapter and verse which says Mary having a glorified body in heaven already, which you are simply assuming.


It would seem that you have been deceived ... You say, "Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 17 years" - you have wasted 17 years because in the end this is what happens...

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Revelation 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Revelation 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Revelation 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Revelation 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

I'm not assuming anything that has "no" Biblical Authority.
Mary is the ONLY person mentioned in the Book of Revelation who is described as having a complete BODY - from head to toe.

Rev. 12:1
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

As for what Jesus thought of His mother - He HONORED her like any other Jewish man is supposed to.
Jesus kept the Commandments - and honoring your Father and mother is COMMANDED by God - it's NOT a "suggestion". To say that He didn't honor His mother is flat-out heresy.

Matt. 12:46-50 is a prime example of this. He is telling the crowd that she DID the will of the Father (v 50).

Finally - the fact that Mary received the Holy Spirit along woith the others at Pentecost is NOT any sort of "proof" that she wasn't already filled with the Spirit.

Jesus breathed on the Apostles in John 20:21-23 and gave them the Holy Spirit - PRIOR to Pentecost when He was giving them the power to forgive sins in His name.
Jesus Himself was BAPTIZED in order to fulfill all righteousness - NOT because He "needed" it.
SAME goes for Mary.

 

[Truther]

I'm not assuming anything that has "no" Biblical Authority.
Mary is the ONLY person mentioned in the Book of Revelation who is described as having a complete BODY - from head to toe.

Rev. 12:1
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

As for what Jesus thought of His mother - He HONORED her like any other Jewish man is supposed to.
Jesus kept the Commandments - and honoring your Father and mother is COMMANDED by God - it's NOT a "suggestion". To say that He didn't honor His mother is flat-out heresy.

Matt. 12:46-50 is a prime example of this. He is telling the crowd that she DID the will of the Father (v 50).

Finally - the fact that Mary received the Holy Spirit along woith the others at Pentecost is NOT any sort of "proof" that she wasn't already filled with the Spirit.

Jesus breathed on the Apostles in John 20:21-23 and gave them the Holy Spirit - PRIOR to Pentecost when He was giving them the power to forgive sins in His name.
Jesus Himself was BAPTIZED in order to fulfill all righteousness - NOT because He "needed" it.
SAME goes for Mary.

"Jesus Himself was BAPTIZED in order to fulfill all righteousness - NOT because He "needed" it."


You teach Mary was sinless like Jesus?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sure folks do.

After visiting the priest in the black box to acquire remission of sins from "father so and so", he makes us pray 10 "hail Mary's" and 15 "our Father's", etc.
If not, our weekly remission cannot be complete.
Too bad the 1st century Church had no black box with a priest inside to find remission of sins, huh?

WRONG again.

If a person didn't know the Hail Mary, they could simply tell the priest.
Post-confessional Penance isn't a "punishment", Einstein - it's a meditation of contrition and part of your resolve not to sin.

Nobody is required to pray the rosary. It's a devotional.
Time to stop being so ignorant.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"Jesus Himself was BAPTIZED in order to fulfill all righteousness - NOT because He "needed" it."
You teach Mary was sinless like Jesus?

Mary WAS sinless, Einstein.

Go back and read the posts regarding her title of "Kecharitomene" (Luke 1:28).
MOST of it will go over your head because you don't seem to be very bright - but try to put on your thinking cap . . .

 

[Truther]

WRONG again.

If a person didn't know the Hail Mary, they could simply tell the priest.
Post-confessional Penance isn't a "punishment", Einstein - it's a meditation of contrition and part of your resolve not to sin.

Nobody is required to pray the rosary. It's a devotional.
Time to stop being so ignorant.

Wait, to get one's first communion and even get to enter into the black box one must go to catechism first.

In catechism, we learn the rosary.

The rosary consists of "hail Mary's".

What is the unlearned doing in the black box...catechism lite?

 

[BreadOfLife]

What about perversions done by Popes in Catholic history? How does that deny the doctrine of the infallible Pope?

BTW This is a Catholic Show

Did you actually WATCH that video?
No Pope in history - even the ones that did some bad things ever TAUGHT heresy.

THAT is where the charism of infallibility lies.
They're infallible - NOT impeccable . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wait, to get one's first communion and even get to enter into the black box one must go to catechism first.
In catechism, we learn the rosary.
The rosary consists of "hail Mary's".

What is the unlearned doing in the black box...catechism lite?

WRONG again.
See - this is why I said you weren't very bright.

The Rosary is a DEVOTIONAL - NOT a requirement.
The Catechism doesn't teach that we must pray the Rosary.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Either you adhere to sola scriptura or Popa unscriptura.

Pick one.

No - either you adhere to the false, man-made invention of Sola Scriptura - or you do what Scriptural ACTUALLY teaches and adhere to Scripture AND Sacred Tradition (2 Thess. 2:15).

THOSE are your choices, Einstein . . .

 

[Truther]

Mary WAS sinless, Einstein.

Go back and read the posts regarding her title of "Kecharitomene" (Luke 1:28).
MOST of it will go over your head because you don't seem to be very bright - but try to put on your thinking cap . . .

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.


Mary said this.

Question: what was she saved from?