Is Any Denomination Saved?

[Truther]

Where is the word "RAPTURE" in Scripture??
Chapter and Verse, please.

While you're at it - WHEN does this event take place?
Are you "Pre", "Mid" or "Post" - and why??

Scriptural references for your answer, please . . .

Pre trib.

I prefer "catching away" over "rapture".

 

[Truther]

NOWHERE does this support this false doctrine.
It is talking about Christ, who is the Cornerstone. It is NOT talking about Scripture.

Strike ONE . . .

Ummmmm, WHERE does it mention anything about age??
The Greek word used here παιδιον (pahee-dee'-on) is a generic term for children that means "little child" or "INFANT".

Strike TWO . . .

Once again, Einstein - this is talking about the Resurrection of the DEAD - at the END, when Christ Returns.
NO mention of a "Rapture" . . .

Strike THREE - you're OUT.

Matt. 5:14
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.

Even here in the extra innings - you're OUT.

LOL

 

[BreadOfLife]

I find that a bit ironic when 90 percent of Catholicism is tradition, not scripture.

Ummmm, care to substantiate that idiotic claim?

Why would you make such a reckless statement if you couldn't possibly prove it??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pre trib.
I prefer "catching away" over "rapture".

And I prefer the biblical truth of the Resurrection of the Dead over your false "Rapture" doctrine.

Now, explain to me - using NOTHING but Scripture - why this even will happen BEFORE the coming tribulation.

 

[Renniks]

Ummmm, care to substantiate that idiotic claim?

Why would you make such a reckless statement if you couldn't possibly prove it??

Here's a brief list of unbiblical Catholic doctrines:
2105), Infallibility of the Catholic Church, (CCC 2035), Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture (CCC 100), The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ (CCC 2034), The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation (CCC 846), Sacred Tradition equal to scripture (CCC 82), Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works (CCC 2036 CCC 2080 2068), Full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3), Grace can be merited (CCC 2010 CCC 2027), The merit of Mary and the Saints can be applied to Catholics and others (1477), Penance is necessary for salvation (CCC 980), Purgatory (CCC 1031 CCC 1475), Indulgences (CCC 1471 CCC 1478 CCC 1498 CCC 1472), Mary is Mediatrix (CCC 969), Mary brings us the gifts of eternal salvation (CCC 969), Mary delivers souls from death (CCC 966), Prayer to the saints (CCC 2677), The Communion elements become the actual body and blood of Christ (CCC 1374 CCC 1376).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here's a brief list of unbiblical Catholic doctrines:
2105), Infallibility of the Catholic Church, (CCC 2035), Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture (CCC 100), The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ (CCC 2034), The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation (CCC 846), Sacred Tradition equal to scripture (CCC 82), Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works (CCC 2036 CCC 2080 2068), Full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3), Grace can be merited (CCC 2010 CCC 2027), The merit of Mary and the Saints can be applied to Catholics and others (1477), Penance is necessary for salvation (CCC 980), Purgatory (CCC 1031 CCC 1475), Indulgences (CCC 1471 CCC 1478 CCC 1498 CCC 1472), Mary is Mediatrix (CCC 969), Mary brings us the gifts of eternal salvation (CCC 969), Mary delivers souls from death (CCC 966), Prayer to the saints (CCC 2677), The Communion elements become the actual body and blood of Christ (CCC 1374 CCC 1376).

Looks like you got EACH one of those teachings from the Catechism - but you DIDN'T bother to list the corresponding Scripture that goes with them from the Catechism.
WHY is that?? It's ALL right there in the Catechism.

You ALSO didn't show me hoe the Church is 90% Tradition and only 10% Scriptural.
ARE you going to do that??

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL

Another "gem" from Einstein . . .

 

[Renniks]

Looks like you got EACH one of those teachings from the Catechism - but you DIDN'T bother to list the corresponding Scripture that goes with them from the Catechism.
WHY is that?? It's ALL right there in the Catechism.

You ALSO didn't show me hoe the Church is 90% Tradition and only 10% Scriptural.
ARE you going to do that??

Like I said all those doctrines are unbiblical. And I haven't even gotten into the rituals that the RCC uses. Tradition, tradition.

 

[Enow]

What happened in Acts 2 while preaching to the murderers of Jesus Christ?

What did the murderers ask?

What did Peter tell them?

What did they do to be saved?...

Okay. Here is how I read it in respect to Acts 10th chapter & Romans 10th chapter.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

They were convicted for crucifying Jesus Whom they had not believed in. So the call to repent by Peter cannot be anything else but repenting from unbelief by believing in Him next. The convicted Jews knew what to repent of, for not believing in Him and that is to believe in Him.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That is how they got the remission of sins, not as John the Baptists water baptism of repentance did for the remission of sins because that is John the Baptist's water baptism. This remission of sins was to come with the gift of the Holy Ghost; that Jesus Christ will baptize us by and He does this when we believe in Him. That is how John the Baptist prepared the way for the Lord in how believers receives the remission of sins because by faith in Jesus Christ is how they had received the promise of the Spirit at their salvation.

Remember Romans 10th chapter? The next verse says this was the promise given to the Jews and their children and as even as many as the Lord our God shall call that the gift of the Holy Spirit will come by believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins as it happened for the Gentiles.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

So when Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles, they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE water baptism because it was as he stated plainly to the Gentiles that by believing in Him is how they receive the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit as proof of that in how one receives the actual remission of sins by the Jew believers as well as the Gentile believers in Christ Jesus.

Otherwise you call foul on Peter & God for giving the remission of sins another way to the Gentiles along with the gift of the Holy Ghost BEFORE water baptism.

And I would think you should find it strange that Paul would not emphasize water baptism in his ministry but instead the power of God in salvation was by believing the preaching of the cross is how we are saved in 1 Corinthians 1:16-18.21

Still, water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow as His disciples, but they are still saved regardless.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Like I said all those doctrines are unbiblical. And I haven't even gotten into the rituals that the RCC uses. Tradition, tradition.

And now, you're being dishonest.
EVERY teaching in the Catechism is backed up with Scripture. It's right there in the Catechism, if you would only bother to look.

EVERY one of the paragraphs you listed from the Catechism has footnotes and Scriptural references.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Infallibility of the Catholic Church (CCC 2035)

The BIBLE makes this clear: Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:16-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23

Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture (CCC 100)

That’s NOT what it says.
It says:

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.

The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ (CCC 2034)

That‘s NOT what it says.
It says:

2034 The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are "authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice." The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation (CCC 846)

That’s NOT what it says.
It says:

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

THEN, it goes on to say . . .

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

Sacred Tradition equal to scripture (CCC 82)

The BIBLE makes this claim: Luke 10:16, 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2

Do you see a pattern here??
Your claims are totally DISHONEST because you not only RE-WORDED the teachings – you failed to list the corresponding Scripture verses.

So much for your asinine claim that the Catholic Church is “90%” Tradition . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Like I said all those doctrines are unbiblical.

Ummmm. looks like I proved you WRONG in post #291 . . .

 

[Truther]

Okay. Here is how I read it in respect to Acts 10th chapter & Romans 10th chapter.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

They were convicted for crucifying Jesus Whom they had not believed in. So the call to repent by Peter cannot be anything else but repenting from unbelief by believing in Him next. The convicted Jews knew what to repent of, for not believing in Him and that is to believe in Him.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That is how they got the remission of sins, not as John the Baptists water baptism of repentance did for the remission of sins because that is John the Baptist's water baptism. This remission of sins was to come with the gift of the Holy Ghost; that Jesus Christ will baptize us by and He does this when we believe in Him. That is how John the Baptist prepared the way for the Lord in how believers receives the remission of sins because by faith in Jesus Christ is how they had received the promise of the Spirit at their salvation.

Remember Romans 10th chapter? The next verse says this was the promise given to the Jews and their children and as even as many as the Lord our God shall call that the gift of the Holy Spirit will come by believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins as it happened for the Gentiles.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

So when Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles, they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE water baptism because it was as he stated plainly to the Gentiles that by believing in Him is how they receive the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit as proof of that in how one receives the actual remission of sins by the Jew believers as well as the Gentile believers in Christ Jesus.

Otherwise you call foul on Peter & God for giving the remission of sins another way to the Gentiles along with the gift of the Holy Ghost BEFORE water baptism.

And I would think you should find it strange that Paul would not emphasize water baptism in his ministry but instead the power of God in salvation was by believing the preaching of the cross is how we are saved in 1 Corinthians 1:16-18.21

Still, water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow as His disciples, but they are still saved regardless.

Got it.

So Peter really meant this?...

Peter said unto them repent, and receive the Holy Ghost for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost?

Boy, that makes alot of sense.

 

[Truther]

And I prefer the biblical truth of the Resurrection of the Dead over your false "Rapture" doctrine.

Now, explain to me - using NOTHING but Scripture - why this even will happen BEFORE the coming tribulation.

What about the alive and remain in Christ resurrecting?

Oh, that's right, Catholics will all die.

 

[Truther]

Ummmm, care to substantiate that idiotic claim?

Why would you make such a reckless statement if you couldn't possibly prove it??

I would say 99% of RCC doctrine is unscriptural and counting.

 

[Renniks]

That‘s NOT what it says.
It says:

2034 The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are "authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ,

Lol, that's exactly what it says.

 

[Renniks]

The BIBLE makes this clear: Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:16-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23

That’s NOT what it says.
It says:

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.

That‘s NOT what it says.
It says:

2034 The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are "authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice." The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.

That’s NOT what it says.
It says:

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

THEN, it goes on to say . . .

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

The BIBLE makes this claim: Luke 10:16, 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2

Do you see a pattern here??
Your claims are totally DISHONEST because you not only RE-WORDED the teachings – you failed to list the corresponding Scripture verses.

So much for your asinine claim that the Catholic Church is “90%” Tradition . . .

You are way too insulting to bother with. If you grow up and want a civil discussion, I'm game.

 

[Renniks]

The BIBLE makes this claim: Luke 10:16, 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2

No, it claims Christ's disciples had his authority, not any church. He didn't give that authority to the pope.

 

[Enow]

And I prefer the biblical truth of the Resurrection of the Dead over your false "Rapture" doctrine.

Now, explain to me - using NOTHING but Scripture - why this even will happen BEFORE the coming tribulation.

He will come to judge His House first before the coming great tribulation.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

I apply verse 19 to the promise that He will keep the souls of His unrepentant saints left behind to suffer the fire coming on the earth and the coming great tribulation as a result.

Here is one judgment on the church in getting left behind for not repenting from spiritual fornication in the Book of Revelations.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

So that is why the pre great tribulation rapture will happen first; to judge the House of God for the Bridegroom to receive the abiding bride of Christ to the Marriage Supper above in Heaven and to cast away those not found abiding in Him to resurrect later on after the great tribulation.

Any saint that dies left behind, their spirit is with the Lord because they were saved by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God raised Him from the dead after all.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What about the alive and remain in Christ resurrecting?
Oh, that's right, Catholics will all die.

What does the verse say, Einstein??

1 Thess. 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Honestly - sometimes I wonder how you grew up in this world with such abject ignorance . . .