Are You Free From The Law?

[Paul Christensen]

So you are also Jewish?

No.
The point I am trying to make is that Christ sets us free from the penalty of our failure to keep God's moral law (as apart from the Mosaic ceremonial Law which involves circumcision). Paul says that the Law (meaning the Ten Commandments) is holy and has not been done away with, but it is fulfilled in Christ. That means the law has been written on our hearts, and not applied as a set of external rules. Therefore, we are conscious of God's moral law, and we mourn and groan within ourselves when we sense our failure to keep it as perfectly as we would wish. In our hearts, as Paul said in Romans 7, we want to follow the law perfectly, but there is another law in our flesh which pulls us toward the works of the flesh, so there is always a conflict between what our heart wants to do and what our bodily desires want.

This is why when we look at a person with lust, and we all do, it is our body that has the sexual desire, but our heart says, "No, no! That's not right. Holy Spirit, strengthen me by God's grace that I won't take that second look!"

What stops us married people from beating our wives when we get angry with them? It is God's moral law in our hearts. If I didn't have God's moral law in my heart, it would be dangerous for anyone to be near me and to offend me, because if I got angry I could very well get a hammer and belt them over the head with it!

Or if I saw an attractive young woman walking down the street in a short skirt on a windy day, what would stop me from grabbing and raping her would be God's moral law in my heart.

This is what I am trying to say, about being free. We are free through the transformation of our hearts to be able to decide to abide by God's moral law instead of breaking it. An unsaved person is a slave to sin. He hasn't got the choice whether to abide by the law or to break it. When coming under temptation, he breaks it because he has an evil heart and does not see that he is doing anything wrong when he fornicates, blasphemes, steals, lies, and perves at women with lust.

So, we are not free to become lawless people, but we are free from the slavery of sin to be able to do the good works that God has ordained for us to do, and to keep us clean from and unspotted by the world around us.

Am I making sense now?

 

[mjrhealth]

Or if I saw an attractive young woman walking down the street in a short skirt on a windy day, what would stop me from grabbing and raping her would be God's moral law in my heart.

It Love , what part of "Love" do you not understand,

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, Love, dont you get it.

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another

 

[Cooper]

So you are also Jewish?

Tell my, why do Jews have "Christian" on their avatar?

 

[Paul Christensen]

It Love , what part of "Love" do you not understand,

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, Love, dont you get it.

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another

But isn't what you are saying is compliance with God's moral law, which is loving God with all our hearts, and loving others as we love ourselves? Isn't the Ten Commandments summed up in that - that if we really love God and others, we will keep the Ten Commandments?

Conversely, if we don't keep the Ten Commandments from our hearts, are we not failing to love God or other people at all?

So, how do we love God and others without keeping the Ten Commandments?

 

[mjrhealth]

But isn't what you are saying is compliance with God's moral law, which is loving God with all our hearts, and loving others as we love ourselves? Isn't the Ten Commandments summed up in that - that if we really love God and others, we will keep the Ten Commandments?

If you want to keep the law, p[lease go be a Jew or a SDA, are you under teh law or grace, please make your choice.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

So, how do we love God and others without keeping the Ten Commandments?

Love, it superseeds everything

But you are still carnal, you know that bit about the woman walking down the street,

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

What do you not understand

You look at a woman the wrong way, you have already committed adulty,
you say in your heart, he should be shot, you have already committed murder,
you say he should go to prison, you have already judged and guilty of judgement.

You want the law, you will be found guilty by the law. There is no grace for those who choose it.

 

[Brakelite]

Christian in name. or in practice?

People are christian in name because they CLAIM to follow christ yet not all are truly children of God

People are christian in practice who have placed their faith in the name of Christ, and live their lives based on their position in Christ.

DNB specifically said if a person continue to sin he will not be judged by the law because Christians are under grace. In other words, he is using Jesus as the Israelites used a heifer grazing in the back paddock. It's like a get out of jail free card. Do you really believe that continuing to sin can be wiped away because you have Jesus standing on the sidelines? What did Jesus say of those who thought they could justify their lifestyles, even in their eyes good works, (not even talking about sin), and Jesus said they were workers of iniquity and He never knew them? What then do you suppose would be His response to someone who thinks that continuing in a sinful lifestyle is okay?
Are there not Christians who excuse their sin, even in this very thread, on the basis that "they can't help it"..."Christians will always sin because they are fleshly creatures" etc etc??? DNB said basically that sinners are a under grace. I think that is wrong, and dangerous. He was not talking about nominal Christians. Nor even new Christians. But Christians who continued to sin despite grace.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If you want to keep the law, p[lease go be a Jew or a SDA, are you under teh law or grace, please make your choice.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.



Love, it superseeds everything

But you are still carnal, you know that bit about the woman walking down the street,

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

What do you not understand

You look at a woman the wrong way, you have already committed adulty,
you say in your heart, he should be shot, you have already committed murder,
you say he should go to prison, you have already judged and guilty of judgement.

You want the law, you will be found guilty by the law. There is no grace for those who choose it.

What you are advocating that one can love God and others but be lawless in his conduct!

Then you go on to quote God's moral law in the way we should behave!

Can't you see that you are contradicting yourself?

 

[Paul Christensen]

DNB specifically said if a person continue to sin he will not be judged by the law because Christians are under grace. In other words, he is using Jesus as the Israelites used a heifer grazing in the back paddock. It's like a get out of jail free card. Do you really believe that continuing to sin can be wiped away because you have Jesus standing on the sidelines? What did Jesus say of those who thought they could justify their lifestyles, even in their eyes good works, (not even talking about sin), and Jesus said they were workers of iniquity and He never knew them? What then do you suppose would be His response to someone who thinks that continuing in a sinful lifestyle is okay?
Are there not Christians who excuse their sin, even in this very thread, on the basis that "they can't help it"..."Christians will always sin because they are fleshly creatures" etc etc??? DNB said basically that sinners are a under grace. I think that is wrong, and dangerous. He was not talking about nominal Christians. Nor even new Christians. But Christians who continued to sin despite grace.

Absolutely!
There is no such thing as a spiritual get out of jail free card. There is a penalty for sin, and someone has to pay it. It is the same when a criminal comes to court facing a million dollars in fines. Someone has to pay it, if not the criminal himself.

So, if someone comes along and pays the fine for the criminal, the debt has been paid, so the criminal legally can go free, even though he didn't pay it himself. I heard a story about Billy Graham being caught speeding through a small town. So he appeared before the judge, and the judge sentenced him to a $10 fine (a much larger amount in those days). Then the judge recognised him, and told him that he was one of his greatest admirers, Billy went to put his wallet away, but the judge said, "But I am the judge, and I have to fine you the $10 nevertheless", as Billy reached for his wallet again, the judge opened his wallet, pulled out a $10 bill and put the money into the fines drawer. He said, "Mr Graham, I've now paid your fine for you, so you are free to go, and God bless you".

There is no such thing as a free lunch, as you have heard. Someone has to pay for it somewhere along the line even if you get it free. So, when a Christian gets his get out of jail free card, he can know Jesus has paid for it with His own blood.

 

[Waiting on him]

No.
The point I am trying to make is that Christ sets us free from the penalty of our failure to keep God's moral law (as apart from the Mosaic ceremonial Law which involves circumcision). Paul says that the Law (meaning the Ten Commandments) is holy and has not been done away with, but it is fulfilled in Christ. That means the law has been written on our hearts, and not applied as a set of external rules. Therefore, we are conscious of God's moral law, and we mourn and groan within ourselves when we sense our failure to keep it as perfectly as we would wish. In our hearts, as Paul said in Romans 7, we want to follow the law perfectly, but there is another law in our flesh which pulls us toward the works of the flesh, so there is always a conflict between what our heart wants to do and what our bodily desires want.

This is why when we look at a person with lust, and we all do, it is our body that has the sexual desire, but our heart says, "No, no! That's not right. Holy Spirit, strengthen me by God's grace that I won't take that second look!"

What stops us married people from beating our wives when we get angry with them? It is God's moral law in our hearts. If I didn't have God's moral law in my heart, it would be dangerous for anyone to be near me and to offend me, because if I got angry I could very well get a hammer and belt them over the head with it!

Or if I saw an attractive young woman walking down the street in a short skirt on a windy day, what would stop me from grabbing and raping her would be God's moral law in my heart.

This is what I am trying to say, about being free. We are free through the transformation of our hearts to be able to decide to abide by God's moral law instead of breaking it. An unsaved person is a slave to sin. He hasn't got the choice whether to abide by the law or to break it. When coming under temptation, he breaks it because he has an evil heart and does not see that he is doing anything wrong when he fornicates, blasphemes, steals, lies, and perves at women with lust.

So, we are not free to become lawless people, but we are free from the slavery of sin to be able to do the good works that God has ordained for us to do, and to keep us clean from and unspotted by the world around us.

Am I making sense now?

Sorry, it looked as if your other post stated you came to know Christ through the mossaic law.....

 

[Waiting on him]

Tell my, why do Jews have "Christian" on their avatar?

I must be at a total loss of understanding here it seems as if everyone here is proclaiming a law given to a particular nation at a particular time in history, which has nothing to do with me.... I came to know Christ without any law, so why am I now being told by men I need to observe this law?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

DNB specifically said if a person continue to sin he will not be judged by the law because Christians are under grace. In other words, he is using Jesus as the Israelites used a heifer grazing in the back paddock. It's like a get out of jail free card. Do you really believe that continuing to sin can be wiped away because you have Jesus standing on the sidelines? What did Jesus say of those who thought they could justify their lifestyles, even in their eyes good works, (not even talking about sin), and Jesus said they were workers of iniquity and He never knew them? What then do you suppose would be His response to someone who thinks that continuing in a sinful lifestyle is okay?
Are there not Christians who excuse their sin, even in this very thread, on the basis that "they can't help it"..."Christians will always sin because they are fleshly creatures" etc etc??? DNB said basically that sinners are a under grace. I think that is wrong, and dangerous. He was not talking about nominal Christians. Nor even new Christians. But Christians who continued to sin despite grace.

John said anyone whoever continues in sin has never seen or known God

I will trust the apostle John and not someone who thinks a child of a God can continue in sin

ok

 

[Waiting on him]

I have read about some of this law, and it does seem to appear to be good and even maybe beneficial, but I don't see anyway to be justified by performing it.

 

[Waiting on him]

John said anyone whoever continues in sin has never seen or known God

I will trust the apostle John and not someone who thinks a child of a God can continue in sin

ok

I like what you responded to me earlier, what about you, were you justified of Christ prior to any knowledge of these laws being discussed, or are you also Jewish?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I like what you responded to me earlier, what about you, were you justified of Christ prior to any knowledge of these laws being discussed?

The law condemned me, because I looked at the law and saw I did not add up,

 

[Waiting on him]

The law condemned me, because I looked at the law and saw I did not add up,

Interesting something spoke to me and showed me my truth and I had no choice but to agree. No prior knowledge of any laws .



Given to jews...

 

[Cooper]

I must be at a total loss of understanding here it seems as if everyone here is proclaiming a law given to a particular nation at a particular time in history, which has nothing to do with me.... I came to know Christ without any law, so why am I now being told by men I need to observe this law?

You are being told wrong things. Christians live under grace, and not under law. I am afraid there are those, who the disciples said "are not of us." It saddens and worries me that there are wolves among the sheep.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Sorry, it looked as if your other post stated you came to know Christ through the mossaic law.....

I came to know Christ through a friend who shared the gospel with me and showed me in the Bible that I needed to make a personal decision to receive Christ as my Saviour, when previous I was influenced by the Presbyterian Sunday school I went to in the 1950s, that everyone was a Christian because we lived in a Christian country and went to church.

But I have learned since that as Christian believers, we don't follow the law as just an external set of rules, as the Jews did without any change in their hearts. I had to follow the school rules when I was at high school even though in my heart I didn't want to because I thought they came out of an old fashioned Victorian school system and enforced them with the cane on the seat of knowledge. This meant that if I answered a bullying prefect back, I could be caned for not abiding by the school rule that a prefect's word is law, even when bullying younger students. So I was forced to obey rules like having my songbook at assembly, my socks pulled up, wearing my school cap while in uniform, etc., because I would feel the pain of the cane on my posterior (I'm not allowed to say "arse end) on the forum :-) ). So that is following a set of rules by external compulsion and not from the heart. The Jews had to follow their law because when the did they were blessed, and when they didn't they were cursed. Very similar to what went on at my high school as I have described - that if I followed the rules about socks, songbook, cap, grovelling to bullying prefects, being on time to classes, looking up to teachers even if it gave me a pain in the neck, etc., then I was treated as a "good" student (blessed), but if I broke any one of those rules, I was seen as a "bad" student and caned (cursed).

But when I became a Christian, my heart was changed and so God's moral law was written on my heart, so I followed them because I wanted to, not because I had to for fear of punishment. I am set free from the penalty of sin, therefore if I get angry and kick the cat, I won't go to hell, because Jesus has taken that penalty away from me and put it on Himself. This shows the sinfulness of sin, that my sin caused my Saviour to suffer the eternal wrath of God as my penalty for the whole three hours He hung on the cross!

How would I feel that if by my stupid negligence in driving that I had an accident with another car which killed someone's small baby? My actions have caused an innocent baby to die and innocent parents to go through the grief of it. If I feel nasty about that, then how should I feel when my loving Saviour had to suffer the terrible eternal wrath of God for my sins? So, it is that sense that make me want to follow God's moral law from my heart.

 

[Cooper]

I came to know Christ through a friend who shared the gospel with me and showed me in the Bible that I needed to make a personal decision to receive Christ as my Saviour, when previous I was influenced by the Presbyterian Sunday school I went to in the 1950s, that everyone was a Christian because we lived in a Christian country and went to church.

But I have learned since that as Christian believers, we don't follow the law as just an external set of rules, as the Jews did without any change in their hearts. I had to follow the school rules when I was at high school even though in my heart I didn't want to because I thought they came out of an old fashioned Victorian school system and enforced them with the cane on the seat of knowledge. This meant that if I answered a bullying prefect back, I could be caned for not abiding by the school rule that a prefect's word is law, even when bullying younger students. So I was forced to obey rules like having my songbook at assembly, my socks pulled up, wearing my school cap while in uniform, etc., because I would feel the pain of the cane on my posterior (I'm not allowed to say "arse end) on the forum :) ). So that is following a set of rules by external compulsion and not from the heart. The Jews had to follow their law because when the did they were blessed, and when they didn't they were cursed. Very similar to what went on at my high school as I have described - that if I followed the rules about socks, songbook, cap, grovelling to bullying prefects, being on time to classes, looking up to teachers even if it gave me a pain in the neck, etc., then I was treated as a "good" student (blessed), but if I broke any one of those rules, I was seen as a "bad" student and caned (cursed).

But when I became a Christian, my heart was changed and so God's moral law was written on my heart, so I followed them because I wanted to, not because I had to for fear of punishment. I am set free from the penalty of sin, therefore if I get angry and kick the cat, I won't go to hell, because Jesus has taken that penalty away from me and put it on Himself. This shows the sinfulness of sin, that my sin caused my Saviour to suffer the eternal wrath of God as my penalty for the whole three hours He hung on the cross!

How would I feel that if by my stupid negligence in driving that I had an accident with another car which killed someone's small baby? My actions have caused an innocent baby to die and innocent parents to go through the grief of it. If I feel nasty about that, then how should I feel when my loving Saviour had to suffer the terrible eternal wrath of God for my sins? So, it is that sense that make me want to follow God's moral law from my heart.

I did not know God wrote the laws of the road on my heart.

 

[Waiting on him]

I did not know God wrote the laws of the road on my heart.

What about you Cooper, were you justified without knowledge of these laws?

 

[Waiting on him]

I believe many Christians read God's word under the impression that every word spoken is spoken to them personally..