Are You Free From The Law?

[mjrhealth]

Few children are raised in the way they should go, as written.

Without training, without guidance, without the Father accomplishing salvation, it is not accomplished.

Without a 'babysitter', without training, without scourging, without discipline,
the little boy has foolishness bound up in his heart (as written), and woe to him later in life.

"Strict discipline is necessary for life".... not optional.

Well sorry. God doesnt wack His children.

 

[mjrhealth]

So people are bad without the knowledge of the law, and it is the revealing of the law to them that makes them realise that they are bad

That depends on what you think is bad, and many are good without it, it is not teh law that convicts us, it is this,

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

thats why so many feel condemned, they dont believe and the Holy Spirit convicts them

 

[Joseph77]

Well sorry. God doesnt wack His children.

Yes, sorry. Very sorry , and showing not knowing God's Word nor His Power at all.

"Anyone who is without scourging, is NOT a son"

 

[Paul Christensen]

That depends on what you think is bad, and many are good without it, it is not teh law that convicts us, it is this,

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

thats why so many feel condemned, they dont believe and the Holy Spirit convicts them

This is the test of whether we are good or bad. If I use that test on myself then I ask myself:
Have I ever lied? Yes.
Have I ever taken something that does not belong to me? Yes.
Have I ever used God's name as a swear word or said OMG? Yes.
Have I ever looked at a woman with lust or viewed pornography? Yes.
Have I honoured my mother as I should have? No.
Have I ever been envious or jealous of what other have or their position in the church? Yes.

So, I have to say that I am a liar, thief, blasphemer, covetous, dishonouring of parents, and an adulterer at heart. Therefore I am actually a bad person and when I come up for judgment I will be found guilty.
So, how am I going to avoid the eternal penalty for my badness in breaking all those Commandments and falling short of God's holy standards. How am I going to escape the justice of God?

That is the big question.

 

[Joseph77]

Oh so now we judge people, or was it that what I wrote offended you.And by the way it is not my own idea,

?
Since you posted it (the earlier post) , and it was not in line with Scripture , and you were not quoting Scripture, ....
whose idea was it then ?
Sure looked like yours.
Perhaps tomorrow ..... we can check and see if you quoted Scripture, or not....

 

[RogerDC]

we need grace because of sin.

I wish some people would learn what grace is and why we require it

if we can sin our self out of grace. Grace is no longer grace. it must be work

So explain why Paul warns believers in Gal 5 that their sins can lead them to eternal damnation?

 

[RogerDC]

if we can sin our self out of grace. Grace is no longer grace. it must be work

Right, so a believer can rape, pillage, steal and murder and still saved?

Did grace cover the sins of Judas? Nope

 

[mjrhealth]

So explain why Paul warns believers in Gal 5 that their sins can lead them to eternal damnation?

Something to do with they never believed. For a "Christian", and im talking about those who believe, to loose there salvation they would have to outright reject Christ and cast Him out like a demon, but than the bible doess say that religion turned God into the image of man, and I suppose you couldnt expect any less from a man.

Seems more are concerend with dying than living, how can one claim to be in Him when all they see is there death.

 

[mjrhealth]

This is the test of whether we are good or bad. If I use that test on myself then I ask myself:
Have I ever lied? Yes.
Have I ever taken something that does not belong to me? Yes.
Have I ever used God's name as a swear word or said OMG? Yes.
Have I ever looked at a woman with lust or viewed pornography? Yes.
Have I honoured my mother as I should have? No.
Have I ever been envious or jealous of what other have or their position in the church? Yes.

So, I have to say that I am a liar, thief, blasphemer, covetous, dishonouring of parents, and an adulterer at heart. Therefore I am actually a bad person and when I come up for judgment I will be found guilty.
So, how am I going to avoid the eternal penalty for my badness in breaking all those Commandments and falling short of God's holy standards. How am I going to escape the justice of God?

That is the big question.

What dont you believe in what Christ did.... because if you did, God doesnt see you that way. But than if you dont understand that you will always be condemned.

 

[RogerDC]

if we can sin our self out of grace. Grace is no longer grace. it must be work

We can indeed "sin our self out of grace", and "Grace is no longer grace" because there is no grace left!

Sin destroys grace. The opposite of sin - holiness, righteousness, good works - increases grace.

 

[Paul Christensen]

What dont you believe in what Christ did.... because if you did, God doesnt see you that way. But than if you dont understand that you will always be condemned.

I do know what Christ has done for me. He suffered for three hours on the cross to take upon Himself the wrath of God that I deserve for my sins, and He has received the penalty that I should receive. He was also whipped and by His stripes I am healed, His body was broken to make me whole, and His blood was shed so that I am cleansed from all unrighteousness. That's what Jesus did for me.

But I am one with Paul who said, "There is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh". Charles Spurgeon said, "I'm just a poor sinner and nothing at all, but Jesus Christ is my all in all"; and D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones says that there are no good Christians but vile people who are saved by the grace of God".

If there was or is any good in us at all, then God would not have needed to save us by His grace and mercy, and Jesus would not have had to come and die for us on the cross. All God would have to have done was to ensure that our good deeds outweighed our bad ones, and save us according to the right way the balance dipped.

But grace is grace, because we are entirely bad and need God's grace and mercy in order to be saved, and our bodies will retain that badness until we die and are resurrected in different bodies that do not have the corruption of sin in them.

 

[mjrhealth]

We can indeed sin our self out of grace. Sin destroys grace. The opposite of sin - holiness, righteousness, good works - increase grace.

If sin destroys grace than grace isnt grace.

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

always condemning teh world and yourselves along with it.

 

[mjrhealth]

I do know what Christ has done for me. He suffered for three hours on the cross to take upon Himself the wrath of God that I deserve for my sins, and He has received the penalty that I should receive. He was also whipped and by His stripes I am healed, His body was broken to make me whole, and His blood was shed so that I am cleansed from all unrighteousness. That's what Jesus did for me.

But I am one with Paul who said, "There is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh". Charles Spurgeon said, "I'm just a poor sinner and nothing at all, but Jesus Christ is my all in all"; and D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones says that there are no good Christians but vile people who are saved by the grace of God".

If there was or is any good in us at all, then God would not have needed to save us by His grace and mercy, and Jesus would not have had to come and die for us on the cross. All God would have to have done was to ensure that our good deeds outweighed our bad ones, and save us according to the right way the balance dipped.

But grace is grace, because we are entirely bad and need God's grace and mercy in order to be saved, and our bodies will retain that badness until we die and are resurrected in different bodies that do not have the corruption of sin in them.

Than why is it you insist on condeming yourself and others if you are free. Are you free or not?? That is the question, Either He died for your sins and teh work is complete, or Eh did not and nothing is finished.

Joh_19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

done complete nothing left to do.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Than why is it you insist on condeming yourself and others if you are free. Are you free or not?? That is the question, Either He died for your sins and teh work is complete, or Eh did not and nothing is finished.

Joh_19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

done complete nothing left to do.

I know that I have concentrated on the sinful part of us, probably more than what would be normal when writing to Christian believers; but it is because much of the modern preaching of the gospel to the unsaved describes God as a loving God and a Jesus who wants people to accept Him so He can be their friend, and that He will give people a happy, prosperous life, and we will ride the religious ra ra ra bandwage until we get to glory with no judgment, no accountability, and the judgment seat of Christ will be where Christians will get their "Sunday School prizes" from Him.

When I was a Christian worker in a 1970s coffee bar ministry which conducted summer holiday outreaches in our coastal cities where people went for holidays, we found that although we got multitudes of decisions for Christ, but found six months later only two or three were found in fellowship in any of the churches in that city or anywhere else. I found this very discouraging, and wondered if all the time, cost, and effort was just a waste of time, and it was just a hallelujah hootenanny fest for Christians.

Then I found that that a crusade conducted by a prominent evangelist in an Australian city achieved 280,000 decisions for Christ, and a short time later, discovered that just 14,000 actually joined and remained in churches as solid church members. This amounted to just a 5% success rate, after hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent in setting the stadium and land-line venues all around the country.

Then I discovered that these converts were not fully informed that they were sinners and were in danger of the judgment. It was not demonstrated why and how they were sinners, and so for many of them, adopting Christianity was joining a religious "club", but when thing went to custard in their lives, they realised that they weren't given all the facts. They weren't told that they would be hated, rejected, persecuted, and even killed for their faith. They weren't told that employers would reject their job applications, they would be passed over for promotion, just because they were Christians, and if they tried to share the gospel with others they would be spat on, had objects thrown at them, and even physically assaulted.

So they decided that they didn't want this type of Christianity, and if they couldn't have the fuzzy, lovey dovey type where everyone loved and respected them for their clean, law-abiding lives, they dumped their new found faith and went back to their former lives.

So, this is why I have been very adamant that we are not good people, and that without Christ we will be found guilty in the judgement and be sentenced to God's eternal prison without parole. So before we turned to Christ, we were condemned, and the person who gave us the gospel and led us to Christ should have been honest and clear about that. It is only when the unsaved know beyond doubt that they are condemned to be damned to hell because of their badness, they will never see the gospel as good news.

Those who are pricked with the conviction of sin in their hearts will be the ones who will embrace the gospel, turn to Christ and become solid church members bearing much fruit for the Lord.

I know that some on this forum have been offended by my insistence on knowing that there is no goodness in them that would commend them to God, and that there is just one "parachute" that will save them from falling right down into the bottomless pit of hell. That parachute is Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

If an airplane that is about to crash and the pilot tells passengers to put on their parachutes so they can jump to safety, there will be some who won't believe the pilot and think he is just scare mongering them and so when the plane crashes they will crash with it. But the ones who are convinced of their danger, and put on the parachute, when it comes times to jump, they will trust the parachute and jump to safety.

Unsaved people are in terrible danger. They don't know how bad they are, and the horrible consequences that they will face when they come up for judgment. We all have to die. It is an appointment we will have to keep, and the judgment will come after. Those who realise their danger, and take hold of Christ with all their hearts, will be the ones who put on the parachutes and know that they will be safe.

It is not enough to believe the parachute can save them. Just like so many people who believe that Christ died on the cross but did nothing about it. They have to "put on" Christ by sincere faith and trust in Him, the same way a airplane passenger has to put on his parachute in order to be able to jump safely. Depending on ones good deeds to get them to heaven is like the passenger who jumps without a parachute and trust that if he waves his arms he will land safely, and he will only realise that it didn't work when his face hits the ground at terminal velocity.

 

[mjrhealth]

I know that some on this forum have been offended by my insistence on knowing that there is no goodness in them that would commend them to God, and that there is just one "parachute" that will save them from falling right down into the bottomless pit of hell. That parachute is Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

If an airplane that is about to crash and the pilot tells passengers to put on their parachutes so they can jump to safety, there will be some who won't believe the pilot and think he is just scare mongering them and so when the plane crashes they will crash with it. But the ones who are convinced of their danger, and put on the parachute, when it comes times to jump, they will trust the parachute and jump to safety.

I have being saying this for 25 years even on this forum , the worst thing is ,many who call themselves "christians" are going to find themselves in heaps of bother.

Far better to show a man who Christ is, so that the ycan see how good He is, and understand who the yare, than to lay judgement upon Him and condemn Him, just look at the pharisees, evertime Jesus opened His mouth they where convicted and wanted to Kill Him

God bless you for standing few will.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I have being saying this for 25 years even on this forum , the worst thing is ,many who call themselves "christians" are going to find themselves in heaps of bother.

Far better to show a man who Christ is, so that the ycan see how good He is, and understand who the yare, than to lay judgement upon Him and condemn Him, just look at the pharisees, evertime Jesus opened His mouth they where convicted and wanted to Kill Him

God bless you for standing few will.

I have discovered that the main failure in witnessing is that we are treating Gentiles as Jews as if they have a God-centred world view. This may have been true in the 1950s where most people had a God-centred world view even if they never darkened the door of a church.

But the world view of most people has changed. Less than 1% of people have a God-centred world view. This is because of the decades of atheistic science teaching in schools and universities that has challenged the Bible, and young people have no answers for it - mainly because our churches have stayed in the 1950s world view, and preached the gospel as if everyone had a Jewish style world view. This has meant that the church in general is right out of touch with how the world around it really is.

This is not to say that people were more Jewish in previous times, but had a similar world view. But these days, the trend has gone to more of a Gentile Greek world view, and we should be preaching the gospel as if we are preaching as if those who are listening are Greeks rather than Jews, if you know what I mean.

If we are witnessing to a Jew, yes, we would use the Old Testament Scriptures in the same way that Peter and Paul did when they preached in the synagogues, because they would have the appropriate world view and would understand what we are talking about. A good way for a Jew is to quote the book of Isaiah without telling them the name of the author, and then show Christ in Isaiah 53, and when they say that the author is just giving Christian "nonsense" then tell them it is from their own Jewish prophet! I think they would double take and then try to go into damage control, but they would know that they had been scuppered!

But when we are preaching to someone else, we need to preach the type of sermon that Paul preached to the Greeks on Mars Hill. In that environment he preached the gospel from a totally different starting point. He did not start with the Scriptures at all, but spoke to them about how the world around them shows that a Designer and Creator made it, and then if there is a God, and if there is a judgment, how what they would say to this God in the judgment. Then, we can present Christ and what He did for them on the cross.

As you can see on the creation forums the complicated and even acrimonious debates between those who believe in a Creator and those who believe in evolution, so we really do need the assistance of the Holy Spirit when we are witnessing to the unsaved these days.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I have being saying this for 25 years even on this forum , the worst thing is ,many who call themselves "christians" are going to find themselves in heaps of bother.

Far better to show a man who Christ is, so that the ycan see how good He is, and understand who the yare, than to lay judgement upon Him and condemn Him, just look at the pharisees, evertime Jesus opened His mouth they where convicted and wanted to Kill Him

God bless you for standing few will.

You know, I have been a Christian for over 50 years, and am only just learning how to be more effective in witnessing the gospel to the unsaved. I was put off in my younger years because of the very low success rate in spite of all the time and effort put into it over a number of years, and most of the conversations we had in our coffee bar ministry end up either in a pointless debate over "where did Cain get his wife from" or "why does a God of love allow suffering in the world" and even if there were decisions, that was the last we saw of them. And then we were told that the growth in the church came from areas other than our coffee bar evangelistic ministry!

So I chucked it in and concentrated on discipleship of believers which I felt was a better use of my time and effort. But recently, after watching how Ray Comfort, a New Zealander, went about sharing the gospel, I found that he treated the unsaved the same way that Paul preached to the Greeks on Mars Hill, and had better results with most people understanding what the gospel was really about, even though many walked away without making a decision.

Getting decisions was not what Jesus told us to do. He told us to proclaim the gospel to every creature, and to make disciples of those who turn to Him.

 

[mjrhealth]

You know, I have been a Christian for over 50 years, and am only just learning how to be more effective in witnessing the gospel to the unsaved. I
Getting decisions was not what Jesus told us to do. He told us to proclaim the gospel to every creature, and to make disciples of those who turn to Him.

I ask God to open doors, when HE does i would hope I go through them, Christ never "preached" as you would put it, He simply spoke. I had a friend who was JW, we used to have conversations in the pub after work when we where away. Once I went over to his house, he had to pop out to take kids to school, his wife asked me to tell her about Jesus, in Her own words, "all he does is talk about the bible, you talk from experience",. My dad has told me many times, you can only know God by experiencing Him, you want to know about suffering , you will, you want to learn about giving , He will put you in a place where you can, you desire to know His love, you will end up in a place loving those whom no other will. That is how God works, that is How He teaches. Remember Jesus was counted amongst the sinners and the religious hated Him for it. I would far rather tell men about Christ and show them who He is than condemn them, you win no souls through fear. If you see a man in need and hungry, feed Him than HE will know Gods love, he might even listen to you.

 

[Cooper]

He has written them on my heart, especially after at the age of 25, going through two amber lights in a row and being fined and having to sit my licence all over again!

That is not God. Make light of the Almighty at your peril.
.

 

[Paul Christensen]

That is not God. Make light of the Almighty at your peril.
.

What!! Who says???