The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

[Dcopymope]

This was the best part!

uh huh, sure.

 

[DNB]

ERROR, I see you don't read the bible. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

that's a big ERROR on your part about the Lord Jesus going through him, meaning 'via', by the way of him,. how can someone go throught someone else when there is no one else present... lol. my, my,my.
so your knowledge in Christ is flawed.

PICJAG.

No, I meant that all was made for him, and that the language that the Bible uses to denote this, is 'through' or 'by'. many claim that this makes Jesus the co-creator, pure trinitarian absurd theology.

 

[Paul Christensen]

no just committed to the truth. and no argument, just facts of scriptures.

so thanks for the comments.

PICJAG

:)

Until the next issue that comes up!

 

[Dcopymope]

No, I meant that all was made for him, and that the language that the Bible uses to denote this, is 'through' or 'by'. many claim that this makes Jesus the co-creator, pure trinitarian absurd theology.

"And without him was no thing made that was made"........You can try and save face and call it "co-creator", fact is he had a role in the creation. Just like he stands before God as our intercessor, his role as mediator with the creation account is made crystal clear by the apostles, and reveals why God is recorded by Moses as saying "let there be".

 

[101G]

so you fellows have no clue who the Lord Jesus is, which you fellows have no clue what the Godhead is either.

later.

PICJAG

 

[DNB]

"And without him was no thing made that was made"........You can try and save face and call it "co-creator", fact is he had a role in the creation. Just like he stands before God as our intercessor, his role as mediator with the creation account is made crystal clear by the apostles, and reveals why God is recorded by Moses as saying "let there be".

There was only one creator, the Father, the one and sole Almighty God. trinitarians say 'co-creator', not me.
Jesus was a man born in around 4bc. But destined to be the Messiah before the beginning of time. Thus, all things were created for Christ, including the rest of humanity, ...and the universe and angels.

 

[DNB]

uh huh, sure.

I wasn't being dismissive, you concluded our discussion by agreeing to disagree, and your final comment summed up the ramifications. It was very poignant!

 

[Dcopymope]

There was only one creator, the Father, the one and sole Almighty God. trinitarians say 'co-creator', not me.
Jesus was a man born in around 4bc. But destined to be the Messiah before the beginning of time. Thus, all things were created for Christ, including the rest of humanity, ...and the universe and angels.

"Thus, all things were created for Christ"....where is that in the Bible?

 

[Josho]

he's a troll 101G.

Yep I checked out his other messages.

 

[Paul Christensen]

he's a troll 101G.

I went back to see what he had been posting, but I think his posts have been deleted, because I got a forum error.

 

[marksman]

Ok well, put it this way, John states that Jesus was God in essence as his spoken "word", not the Father himself as a person. When the Father speaks, the spoken "word" moves as an instrument of his will. This is why it is stated that by Jesus all things were made and its because of him, the "word" that all things persist. Which is why the creation account routinely starts with the term "And God said", because he literally spoke all things into existence through the "word of God".



So if its true that Jesus was the Father as a person then the atonement itself was a fraud, because no death actually occurred. When "God Almighty" sent "the word" and became born as a man, "the word" was no longer a "living spirit" like his Father, but a "living soul", fully human, just like the first Adam. This is why all falsehoods need to be addressed, because it always snow balls into other falsehoods, like "Diversified Oneness". This farcical doctrine expects us to believe this outrageously absurd notion that the Father resurrected himself from the grave

. Jesus says that a spirit does not have a fleshly body as his disciples saw him. Since the Father, "God Almighty" is pure spirit, and the "word of God" is now a living soul, the second Adam, then it means they cannot possibly be the same person.

And what are you trying to prove, because it eludes me totally.

 

[Paul Christensen]

no just committed to the truth. and no argument, just facts of scriptures.

so thanks for the comments.

PICJAG

I'm a bit like Columbo: "Just one more thing!"
How do you interpret this:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The JWs get around this one by adding one small word to the text: "And the Word was a God".

My bone wasn't quite buried!! :-)

 

[Dcopymope]

And what are you trying to prove, because it eludes me totally.

The lunacy of diversified oneness.

I'm a bit like Columbo: "Just one more thing!"
How do you interpret this:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The JWs get around this one by adding one small word to the text: "And the Word was a God".

My bone wasn't quite buried!! :)

: The word is God Almighty speaking, so how they can possibly interpret that as "a God" is beyond me. This is what happens when you get people trying to understand the technical details of how the Godhead works. At some point somethings gotta give for them to realize that our little pea brains couldn't possibly comprehend how exactly it works. They need to just let the book speak for itself and things will become much easier for them.

 

[marksman]

The lunacy of diversified oneness.



: The word is God Almighty speaking, so how they can possibly interpret that as "a God" is beyond me. This is what happens when you get people trying to understand the technical details of how the Godhead works. At some point somethings gotta give for them to realize that our little pea brains couldn't possibly comprehend how exactly it works. They need to just let the book speak for itself and things will become much easier for them.

What is diversified oneness?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Did he have an umbilical chord?

The umbilical cord is the connection that provides nutrients from the mother's placenta to the baby. I don't know how this can have anything to do with the virgin birth.

 

[Dcopymope]

What is diversified oneness?

Well, like I said, it claims that Jesus is equal to the Father, in authority and power, because he is the Father. So when the apostles clearly state that Jesus sits on the right hand of his Father, the diversified oneness cult claims that this is in fact NOT the case. They are essentially calling them liars.

(Mark 16:19-20) "¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. {20} And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."

Now does this affect our salvation? I believe that it does, because like I said, if Jesus is the Father, then his alleged death was no real death at all, since he was alive and kicking in heaven the whole damn time as the "Father"

. I believe this makes the sacrifice null and void, but you make up your own mind about it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The lunacy of diversified oneness.



: The word is God Almighty speaking, so how they can possibly interpret that as "a God" is beyond me. This is what happens when you get people trying to understand the technical details of how the Godhead works. At some point somethings gotta give for them to realize that our little pea brains couldn't possibly comprehend how exactly it works. They need to just let the book speak for itself and things will become much easier for them.

What the JWs have done is to copy the KJV, updating to more modern English, but adding bits or changing the text to accommodate their particular doctrines and make it appear that their doctrines are Biblical. The trouble is that the team who compiled the New World version did not have a Hebrew or Greek scholar among them, so none of them would have been able to translate the Hebrew, Septuagint, or New Testament Greek manuscripts. So it is the least reliable version, not even a translation, of the Bible - just an updated, redacted version of the KJV.

 

[marksman]

Well, like I said, it claims that Jesus is equal to the Father, in authority and power, because he is the Father. So when the apostles clearly state that Jesus sits on the right hand of his Father, the diversified oneness cult claims that this is in fact NOT the case. They are essentially calling them liars.



Now does this affect our salvation? I believe that it does, because like I said, if Jesus is the Father, then his alleged death was no real death at all, since he was alive and kicking in heaven the whole damn time as the "Father"

. I believe this makes the sacrifice null and void, but you make up your own mind about it.

Never heard of them.

 

[Dcopymope]

Never heard of them.

101G, the O.P of this thread is chief among them. He has been quite fervent of his promotion of this fraudulent atonement of Jesus.

 

[marksman]

Yes, something about ruler-ship and hierarchy, tends to swell people's heads.

And what annoys me intensely is that people blindly following those that deceive as if they are the fount of all wisdom. I have challenged leadership on more than one occasion because what they were teaching was blatant lies and you should have seen the anger rise up and try to justify their deception.

The fact is they DO NOT like being brought to account about anything. As far as they are concerned they have been approved by the denomination so that is all that needs to be said.