The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

[101G]

You are not pressed for time or you would not be here...I never give anyone the runaround.

Good then address Post #201

Last chance...

PICJAG

 

[DNB]

Look, I don't need any run around, so to the point, if you will address Post #201 please.

thanks in advance.

he's a troll 101G.

 

[101G]

he's a troll 101G.

thanks DNB

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

@BreadOfLife, you posted many supposed to be trinity scriptures, and I haven’t heard not one post from you.

I’m still in in the OT right now, any response to your scriptures you provided?.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

To all my trinity believers here’s another scriptures that exposes your three person(s), 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen”.

if the Lord Jesus, whom the trinity doctrine say is the second "Person" in the Godhead is the ONLY one person with immortality, meaning “ETERNAL LIFE”, where do that leave your Father, Person who is separate, or your third person in your Godhead whom you say is separate?

Only means, no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively.

if you cannot answer Matthews 1:23, I’m sure any trinity believer can answer this one.

PICJAG

 

[reformed1689]

I'm afraid I didn't, for I would immediately contend that Jesus Christ is not deified in the New Testament, just for starters.

John 1. Yes, he most certainly is.

 

[reformed1689]

Even if the ludicrous 'I Am' statements were a given, or Emmanuel, or 'I and the Father are one' were conceded to you, there would be a thousand that explicitly and fundamentally establish his humanity.

Of course there are verses that establish his deity as well as his humanity. Because he is truly God and truly man.

And since there is no such thing as a god-man, and that the amount of verses and their weight that demand his humanity, overwhelm and preclude any notion of his deity, one must responsibly, and sensibly deny the trinity.

No such thing as a God-Man based on what? The Bible EXPLICITLY states He is God.

 

[DNB]

John 1. Yes, he most certainly is.

Nope, that's quite clearly a literary convention called antanaclasis. Jesus is the first-born of all creation, despite his chronology in history revealing otherwise. This was John's point i.e, Christ was not an after-thought in God's divine plan, for man's redemption. ...he was before Abraham!

 

[Paul Christensen]

There is plenty of proof in both the Old and New Testament that God is three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, so trying to disprove it is flogging a dead horse.

 

[DNB]

Of course there are verses that establish his deity as well as his humanity. Because he is truly God and truly man.

Jesus does not go through such great effort, establishing something that was so evident to every single person around him, unless he was intending to dispel the notion that he was divine. Everyone that met him saw him eat, sweat in the hot sun, and go and defecate in the lavatory, they all knew he was a man. His was trying to impress upon them that all his power and authority was derived from the Father, the sole and supreme God. For they had the tendency to deify men in those days, thus, he made an extremely concerted effort to dispel any such notions.

No such thing as a God-Man based on what? The Bible EXPLICITLY states He is God.

Everything that defines Deity, is antithetical to what defines humanity. One is immortal, the other mortal, one is transcendent, the other corporeal, one is infallible, the other fallible, one is omnipresent, the other is circumscribed in space and time, one is holy, the other corruptible, etc...

You have a very bad habit of making assumptions and eisegeting the text. You are employing circular-reasoning a bit, you haven't defended your case very well yet, outside of your blatant assertions.

 

[101G]

There is plenty of proof in both the Old and New Testament that God is three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, so trying to disprove it is flogging a dead horse.

Hi Paul, if this is proof, will you address Post #210 please.

Thanks in advance

PICJAG.

 

[Dcopymope]

Nope, that's quite clearly a literary convention called antanaclasis. Jesus is the first-born of all creation, despite his chronology in history revealing otherwise. This was John's point i.e, Christ was not an after-thought in God's divine plan, for man's redemption.

By first born, Paul meant the first to rise from the dead a new creature. He isn't saying he was the first creature to actually be born, in earth or elsewhere, because he always has existed as "the word", who was with God from time immemorial, and its by him, the spoken word that all things were made.

(Colossians 1:14-18) "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: {15} Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: {16} For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: {17} And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. {18} And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

 

[101G]

By first born, Paul meant the first to rise from the dead a new creature. He isn't saying he was the first creature to actually be born, in earth or elsewhere, because he always has existed as "the word", who was with God from time immemorial, and its by him, the spoken word that all things were made.

correct.

PICJAG

 

[DNB]

By first born, Paul meant the first to rise from the dead a new creature. He isn't saying he was the first creature to actually be born, in earth or elsewhere, because he always has existed as "the word", who was with God from time immemorial, and its by him, the spoken word that all things were made.

uh huh, i was suspicious about you. For the longest while i thought that you didn't accept Christ's eternality, like myself, but i began to question it in your last few posts.
No, Christ was both the first-born of creation, because all was created for him. And, he was the first-born from the dead, because no one preceded him into heaven.
Well, that's a shame, I was hoping that you didn't subscribe to such a mystical and implausible theory?

 

[101G]

uh huh, i was suspicious about you. For the longest while i thought that you didn't accept Christ's eternality, like myself, but i began to question it in your last few posts.
No, Christ was both the first-born of creation, because all was created for him. And, he was the first-born from the dead, because no one preceded him into heaven.
Well, that's a shame, I was hoping that you didn't subscribe to such a mystical and implausible theory?

JESUS is not a creature.

PICJAG

 

[DNB]

JESUS is not a creature.

PICJAG

Creatures bleed, Christ bled.

 

[101G]

Creatures bleed, Christ bled.

Flesh and blood bleed, he just put it on. he was not a Partaker of flesh and blood, but only took it on... scripture, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

learn the difference between "Partake" and "Took Part".

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

Flesh and blood bleed, he just put it on. he was not a Partaker of flesh and blood, but only took it on... scripture, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

learn the difference between "Partake" and "Took Part".

PICJAG.

Sorry, they're synonymous!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Look, I don't need any run around, so to the point, if you will address Post #201 please.

thanks in advance.

The Scripture says that the Father is a Spirit and no one has seen Him at any time. Therefore all the appearances of God in the Old Testament could not have been the Father, therefore they must have been the pre-incarnate Son of God. Therefore Jesus Christ is the YHWH of the Old Testament because He appeared in person to people, which the Father, having no physical appears, would never have done.

Therefore the God who identified Himself as "I AM" is the same God who said "Before Abraham was, I AM." Also at the baptism of Jesus, there was Jesus Himself, the voice of the Father from heaven, and the Holy Spirit descending on Jesus in bodily form.

Therefore anyone who denies that Jesus is God is not part of mainstream Christianity that abides by the Nicene Creed, or the Westminster Confession of Faith. This leaves the cults - JW, LDS, Christian Science, and Oneness "Jesus only" Pentecostalism.

Even Catholics who put their trust in Jesus Christ and acknowledge Him as God, will get into heaven before those who deny the deity of Christ (and for me, that is saying something!!).

 

[101G]

Sorry, they're synonymous!

ERROR, did Jesus have a human Father? NO hence the virgin birth.

PICJAG