Are You Free From The Law?

[bbyrd009]

The blood of Christ paid the debt, God did not let the debt go unpaid.

Its odd you think the blood of Christ can be replaced by you giving money to the poor.

Its your own eternal death. or the blood of Christ

those are the two options.

ALL sin will be judged and paid for. one way or the other. Your sacraments or penance have no part in the equation.

give me some of that red stew, for i am so hungry (for it) i am about to die!

 

[bbyrd009]

God will judge a person's entire life and decide their eternal fate.

Yah is not our judge, but has given all judgement to the Son
wadr, John 5 something i think, John 5:22

 

[bbyrd009]

So if a believer is a serial adulterer, he will be a hypocrite but still be saved?

how are the publicans and prostitutes beating us in, iyo? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

so according to the religious we are all doomed and Christ died for nothing... woe is mankind, the religious have condemned us all to death.. faith in Christ and His works to be discarded, and we must all be perfect little children... woe is us

Good thing religion wont save us we surely would be doomed.

you know any "perfect" little kids, mjr?
little kids mess up all the time, right?
why do they get a pass, do you think?

 

[amadeus]

give me some of that red stew, for i am so hungry (for it) i am about to die!

Aye, seek if you will that red blood that keeps only the flesh alive, while ignoring That which whitens, cleanses and purifies giving Life...Life, which begins should be beginning upon receipt!

 

[RogerDC]

As Christians we are not free from the Law, and by the Law I mean God's moral law. We still have a moral responsibility to God. But we are free from the penalty for failing to keep the Law

Illogical. If we are free from the penalty of not keeping the moral law, we are free from the moral law. If there were no speeding tickets, everyone would be free to speed, wouldn't they?

Speaking of which, you didn’t answer my question from a previous post: If there is no penalty for sin, why bother striving to be holy and righteous - why not give in to every temptation to sin?

our sanctification (not our salvation)

Our salvation depends on our sanctification - “Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14).

Sanctification is simply the process of becoming holy and righteous by obeying the commandments, which are the good “works” by which we are justified - “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24).

 

[RogerDC]

we know that without holiness noone can see the Lord.

I’m confused by your doctrine. You agree that without holiness, “no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14). In other words, not obeying the commandments can land a believer in Hell. But, if memory serves, in other posts you’ve argued that a believer will be saved no matter what sins they commit, as there is no penalty for sin. So it seems to me that you’re contradicting yourself.

Furthermore, you appear to be preaching salvation through faith and works. You say, “we know that without holiness, no one can see the Lord”, but “holiness” is keeping the commandments, and keeping the commandments is “works” - so in effect you’re saying, “we know that without works, no one will see the Lord”. Which is the correct teaching of the NT, by the way.

 

[RogerDC]

Well you are not willing to give up your religion for Him, The only Law if you could call it that , I well we who are in Christ are under is Love, despised by the religious persued by few.

Jesus condemns certain believers to Hell for being “doers of lawlessness” (Matt 7:21-23). You are a believer who practices lawlessness, so does that mean Jesus will say to you on Judgement Day, “I never knew you” and toss you into the lake of fire?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Illogical. If we are free from the penalty of not keeping the moral law, we are free from the moral law. If there were no speeding tickets, everyone would be free to speed, wouldn't they?

Speaking of which, you didn’t answer my question from a previous post: If there is no penalty for sin, why bother striving to be holy and righteous - why not give in to every temptation to sin?Our salvation depends on our sanctification - “Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14).

Sanctification is simply the process of becoming holy and righteous by obeying the commandments, which are the good “works” by which we are justified - “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24).

So, if breaking just one of the Commandments means, as the Scripture says, breaking all Ten, then you are scuppered every time you say "OMG" or look at a woman with lust, or just for not loving God with all your heart, soul and strength at all times. So if we are expecting to be justified by our works, then our continual breaches of the Ten Commandments throughout our lives means that we cannot be justified, because our works continue to be evil. To be justified by our works, we have to be absolutely sinlessly perfect from our youth up. If not, we will be scuppered at the judgment.

 

[RogerDC]

we who are in Christ are under is Love

Not sure what you mean by “love”. What if a believer loves to steal stuff - it that allowed? According to you, that is allowed because a believer has no laws and so there are no laws against stealing.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I’m confused by your doctrine. You agree that without holiness, “no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14). In other words, not obeying the commandments can land a believer in Hell. But, if memory serves, in other posts you’ve argued that a believer will be saved no matter what sins they commit, as there is no penalty for sin. So it seems to me that you’re contradicting yourself.

Furthermore, you appear to be preaching salvation through faith and works. You say, “we know that without holiness, no one can see the Lord”, but “holiness” is keeping the commandments, and keeping the commandments is “works” - so in effect you’re saying, “we know that without works, no one will see the Lord”. Which is the correct teaching of the NT, by the way.

But your theology, clearly stated by you, is that you believe you are justified by your works. I am saying that if that is so, you have had to live a perfectly holy life, without fault, since your youth. If not, then God can justly find you guilty at the judgment and make you pay the ultimate penalty, and be totally righteous in doing so. Break God's moral law and pay the penalty - unless someone pays that penalty for you.

 

[RogerDC]

Thats a lie, Jesus did it once and for ever. No priest can forgive any man of there sins, only God and Jesus can do that.

According to John 20:19-23, Jesus gave the power to those he “breathed” on (ie, the Catholic priesthood) to forgive the sins of “any” other member of the Church. This power comes from Christ, not the priest himself. The Church has the power to forgive sins (via her priests) because the Church is the “fullness” of Christ (Eph 1:22-23).

A man can only forgive them that sinned against them.

John 20:19-23 doesn’t say anything about all believers being given that power, nor does it say that power applies only to a believer forgiving the sins of someone who sinned against him - these appear to be unscriptural things you made up.

More catholic lies and deceit.

Impossible. You’re a slow learner - the Catholic Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1Tim 3:15), so if you disagree with her teachings, it is you who is wrong.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Not sure what you mean by “love”. What if a believer loves to steal stuff - it that allowed? According to you, that is allowed because a believer has no laws and so there are no laws against stealing.

No believer seriously believes that. That is what you are saying about believers, talking through the filter of your own theology which is works-based. Every believer I know and have known for the last 53 years since I first became a Christian, and all the ones I have read about, know that they have broken God's moral law, and will be found guilty of sin at the judgment.

 

[RogerDC]

Because that is what we all deserve, and will be found guilty in the judgment

Paul is not talking about what we “deserve” - he is talking about what we will GET. In Romans 6:15, Paul asks, “What then? Are we (believers) to sin because we are not under law but under grace? He answers this with “By no means!”, and warns believers that sin leads to “death”, while righteousness (ie, keeping the commandments) leads to “eternal life”. He doesn’t say, “Oh, you believers don’t have to worry about sin … you will be saved regardless of your sins”, which is what you seem to be claiming.

In Gal 5, Paul clearly tells believers that their sins can mean they “will not inherit the kingdom of God”. Which part of “will not inherit the kingdom of God” sounds like salvation? Paul is here preaching the same dire warning that he preaches in Romans 6 - that the sins of believers can lead to eternal death.

Here are three other verses in which Paul preaches that the sins of believers can lead to eternal death:
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him” (John 3:36);
“Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14);
“He who through faith is righteous shall live” (Romans 1:17).

Jesus Himself preached the same warning as Paul - in Matt 7:21-23 he condemns certain believers to Hell because of their “lawlessness” - aka sin.

You don’t preach what Jesus and Paul preached.

 

[Paul Christensen]

According to John 20:19-23, Jesus gave the power to those he “breathed” on (ie, the Catholic priesthood) to forgive the sins of “any” other member of the Church. This power comes from Christ, not the priest himself. The Church has the power to forgive sins (via her priests) because the Church is the “fullness” of Christ (Eph 1:22-23).John 20:19-23 doesn’t say anything about all believers being given that power, nor does it say that power applies only to a believer forgiving the sins of someone who sinned against him - these appear to be unscriptural things you made up. Impossible. You’re a slow learner - the Catholic Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1Tim 3:15), so if you disagree with her teachings, it is you who is wrong.

Every priest, bishop, cardinal, right up to the pope himself, have broken God's moral law and will be found guilty for their own sin at the judgment, so I can't see how people who are sinners themselves can forgive the sins of other sinners. God doesn't give power or gifts to dirty vessels.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Paul is not talking about what we “deserve” - he is talking about what we will GET. In Romans 6:15, Paul asks, “What then? Are we (believers) to sin because we are not under law but under grace? He answers this with “By no means!”, and warns believers that sin leads to “death”, while righteousness (ie, keeping the commandments) leads to “eternal life”. He doesn’t say, “Oh, you believers don’t have to worry about sin … you will be saved regardless of your sins”, which is what you seem to be claiming.

In Gal 5, Paul clearly tells believers that their sins can mean they “will not inherit the kingdom of God”. Which part of “will not inherit the kingdom of God” sounds like salvation? Paul is here preaching the same dire warning that he preaches in Romans 6 - that the sins of believers can lead to eternal death.

Here are three other verses in which Paul preaches that the sins of believers can lead to eternal death:
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him” (John 3:36);
“Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14);
“He who through faith is righteous shall live” (Romans 1:17).

Jesus Himself preached the same warning as Paul - in Matt 7:21-23 he condemns certain believers to Hell because of their “lawlessness” - aka sin.

You don’t preach what Jesus and Paul preached.

But your theology says that we are justified by our works, which essentially is compliance with God's moral law. Paul clearly says that if we seek to be justified by our works, grace is no more grace, and Christ is of no effect for us.

You are scuppered by your own theology.

 

[RogerDC]

No, thats what Christ did. We have no good works of our own, the good works that Christ did was the works of God, our works count for nought.

If “our works count for nought”, why does James imply that we are saved by “works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24)? And why does he say “faith without works is dead”?
If "our works count for nought", but does Jesus judge the seven Churches in Rev 2 and 3 according to their "works"?

Why does Jesus tell those who belong to the Church of Thyatira, “I will give to each of you as your WORKS deserve” (Rev 2:23)?

While you’re at it, please explain what “good works” are, as I suspect you don’t even know what the term means.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If “our works count for nought”, why does James imply that we are saved by “works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24)? And why does he say “faith without works is dead”?
If "our works count for nought", but does Jesus judge the seven Churches in Rev 2 and 3 according to their "works"?

Why does Jesus tell those who belong to the Church of Thyatira, “I will give to each of you as your WORKS deserve” (Rev 2:23)?

While you’re at it, please explain what “good works” are, as I suspect you don’t even know what the term means.

I know I am putting my oar in, but if you cannot maintain or ever have been able to maintain perfection in your works, then your works are evil and you will get what your works deserve. Straight out case, and there it is!

 

[mjrhealth]

If “our works count for nought”, why does James imply that we are saved by “works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24)? And why does he say “faith without works is dead”?
If "our works count for nought", but does Jesus judge the seven Churches in Rev 2 and 3 according to their "works"?

Why does Jesus tell those who belong to the Church of Thyatira, “I will give to each of you as your WORKS deserve” (Rev 2:23)?

While you’re at it, please explain what “good works” are, as I suspect you don’t even know what the term means.

He never implied anything youi did, that is what religion is all about , SELF look at me God look at what i DID

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus condemns certain believers to Hell for being “doers of lawlessness” (Matt 7:21-23). You are a believer who practices lawlessness, so does that mean Jesus will say to you on Judgement Day, “I never knew you” and toss you into the lake of fire?

Yes mostly religois men, havnt you noticed