Are You Free From The Law?

[Eternally Grateful]

That concept is “so hard to grasp” because it’s incorrect - repentance does not precede faith.

So I go from Gods enemy, From thinking I am ok. Not believing I am a sinner, Or even if I do believe I am a sinner not believe I am in any danger, Not believing I need saved, Not believing in God. etc etc etc

To completely changing my view based on Gods work in my life. and come to the point I have true faith in his word and his promises

Yet I did not repent?

You should rethink your position.

No one CAN or WILL come to faith unless they have repented first. Its impossible

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Okay, you seem to saying now that repentance does include works. In that case, why did you state elsewhere (on a different thread) that “repentance is not works”? I’m confused.

This may help

the term

repentance is not work

and repentance produces faith which produces works

are 2 different concepts. One states what repentance is or is not, One states what it produces

so why are you confused?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Matt 7:21-23 is not about a lack of faith. Jesus condemns them for their “iniquities” - in other words, their evil works - just as 2Cor 5:10 says … “For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body.” Those believers who do good works will receive “good”; those believers who do evil works will receive “evil”.

Matt 7 is people on judgment day trying to proclaim all their works to Jesus,

And Jesus response is he never knew them, so depart, because they practiced lawlessness

2 cor 5 is not about the judgment Jesus spoke of in Matt 27

Until you realize there are 2 judgments

One for believers

the other for unbelievers

you will not understand the difference.

 

[bbyrd009]

remember back when you knew everything, too?


and of course just telling someone "you are channelling antichrist" would not be heard, and standing where it should not be will inevitably be...misapplied, huh. Ears to hear are just not easy to get i guess

the fruit of the tree of knowledge
what is it?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

It is a sure sign of grace when a Christian can trust in his God for his doctrine and faith. Because the unregenerate Christian has no doctrine or faith, but fearing it, falls back on his own natural self, his trust proves to have been a human trust, in himself. One who laughs at faith as principle and doctrine, for whom Scripture- and Law-based doctrine are below his spirituality, is a Christian in name and claim only. Who shrugs off sin and guilt, and gives himself up to jollity and forgetfulness instead of repentance for false doctrine, can only be someone who lives in fear for the wrath of God coming upon those who trample upon his Law. The unrepentant believer may brace himself up with a natural resolution and lean on a reed of spiritual inclination that is ready to split and cut his wrist. The Christian who opposes the Scriptures resists the Law of God. Whose enemy is the doctrine of Christ, takes up arms against the mighty fortress of God’s Word to the end the destruction of himself. Who is led by the fleshly spirit of self in himself is in conflict with and resists the Holy Spirit of God who breathed the Holy Scriptures and guided holy Christian doctrine through all ages. Who is led by the libertine spirit of self in himself and calls it 'Christ in me', goes anywhere but to God or the Scriptures for inspiration and guidance.

 

[ourforgiveness-com]

Romans 13:10 "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." We are not under the Law of Moses, but that does not mean that we are free to murder, to steal, to commit adultery, etc. It means that we cannot earn our righteousness through the keeping of the Law, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Romans 10:4) All those sabbath keepings, animal sacrifices, holy festivals, circumcisions, etc. These were but types and shadows for what was to come; Christ (Colossians 2:17). In James 1:25 we are told that we live by the Law of liberty. In Romans 3:28 it says: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." and there are a multitude of verses that say the same. But it must be noted, that although we are free from the yolk of the Law, we must remember that not every Christian, or Jew has this knowledge. For the Jew still want to read Moses, and the Christian may still believe that he must keep certain feast or abstain from certain foods, or he may even believe that he has to be circumcised. Paul gave a good example in the book of Corinthians, he said that "Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." Or, as he stated in 1 Corinthians 8:9 "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak." So, yes, we are free from the Law, but not from the Law of love, for it is a commandment: "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34), But not just one another, but also our enemies, found in Matthew 5:44 ""But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;". And finally, love will not suffer you to offend those that are weak in conscience, lest you become prideful and a stumbling block "And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?" (1 Corinthians 8:11). And for them that insist that we are to uphold the commandments of Moses, well, remember what our Lord said in Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." That means that adultery is not only done with your body, but also, from within; the heart. "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31). How do we establish it? with love, with faith, with obedience, or as it is written in Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

God bless you all.

 

[RogerDC]

James does not speak of being justified by works in terms of salvation. His use of justification is by way of demonstration, in that what we do after conversion demonstrates whether we are truly saved or not. Also, these are not works from our own self-righteousness, but the works that God has ordained through the work of the indwelling Spirit, that we should do.

If you give money to a charity, is that a work of “self-righteousness” or a work “ordained through the work of the Holy Spirit”?

If you are tempted to sin but say “No” to that temptation, is that a work of “self-righteousness” or a work “ordained through the work of the Holy Spirit”?

If you help an old lady across the road, is that a work of “self-righteousness” or a work “ordained through the work of the Holy Spirit”?

If you love your wife and children and work hard to provide for them, is that a work of “self-righteousness” or a work “ordained through the work of the Holy Spirit”?

James is not saying that faith in Christ is made possible through our works

Of course not - I don’t know of anyone who does say that.[/QUOTE] but that our works demonstrate that we already have faith, and are the evidence that our faith is real.[/QUOTE]Our good works - ie, obeying His commandments - are also a demonstration of our love for God. For example, if you are tempted to sin, but say “No” because you love God and don’t want to offend Him by being disobedient, that is a demonstration of your love for Him, is it not? When Eve was tempted by the devil to sin by eating from the tree, she should have said, “No, I will not eat from the tree, but I love God and don’t want to displease Him by being disobedient.”

 

[RogerDC]

Is a believer free to steal or not?

No but that does not mean there is any law.

You’re talking nonsense - if a believer is not free to steal, that means there’s a law against stealing. Only a idiot would argue otherwise.

If you are free to drive your car as fast you want, that means there’s no law against speeding - on the other hand, if you are not free to drive your car as fast you want, that means there is a law against speeding.

 

[RogerDC]

No the law is not love, do you know what the law did.

Act_5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Rom_7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

being bearer of bad news, all who hang on to the law and are judged by the law, Die, that is all the law does, kill people.

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

so to bring you some really good news, I know you dont like it, you are not under the law when you are in Christ, and you never where if you are a gentile.

See rom8:3 about the flesh, religion all about self pleasing the flesh but in case you missed it.

Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

See what HE is saying, is that those who have never tasted of the Holy Spirit, the "new wine". prefer the LAw the "old wine" because they have this foolish notion that the law is better. But they will all change there mind on judgement day, when they realize Jesus offered them a better way.

If believers don’t have any laws to obey, please explain why Paul says this:

”Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law” (Romans 3:31).

 

[RogerDC]

Not according to the bible you keep quoting.... A righteous man is one who is in Christ, we have no righteousness of our own

To be “in Christ” is to “abide in” Christ - we abide in Christ by keeping His commandments:
“If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love” (John 15:9);
“All who keep His commandments abide in Him, and He in them.” (1John 3:24)

To be “in Christ” is to “know” Christ:
“And by this we may be sure that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says ‘I know Him’ but disobeys His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1John 2:3-4).

Commandments are LAWS, so to be “in Christ” is to obey the laws of Christ. If “the righteous man” is “in Christ”, that means the “righteous man” obeys the laws of Christ.

 

[RogerDC]

Jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM

it means he never had a relationship with them.

I see you’ve changed your tune - you’ve gone from insisting “Jesus never knew them” to “he never had a relationship with them”.

lf Jesus “never had a relationship with them”, how did they manage to prophesy, cast out demons and perform miracles in Jesus’ name? They performed these supernatural acts only because Jesus gave them the power to do so - in which case, Jesus obviously had a “relationship with them”.
So they are BELIEVERS whose works were so evil that they didn’t make it to Heaven. This contradicts your claim that those with faith are certain to be saved and are even saved before the Judgement. It also contradicts you claim that there is no penalty for personal sin.

according to John, people who practice sin have NEVER KNOWN GOD

Sounds like you've misinterpreted yet another verse. Which verse are you referring to?

Anyways, Heb 6:4-6 contradicts you - Believers who had “tasted the heavenly gift” and had become “partakers of the Holy Spirit” fell away (ie, became lawless) and were “burned” - ie, they didn’t make it to Heaven.

 

[RogerDC]

if you keep the whole law and stumble in one area, As James said we are guilty of the whole law

So what you just did, Is condemn yourself and every other person who ever lived.

Of course, Unless you think you are sinless. if thats the case, Then you never needed Christ to begin with. So congratulations if this is true

Looks like you’re trying to change the subject ... which was, you claimed that there is no penalty for personal sin. So that means a believer is free to give into any temptation to sin, no matter how grave the sin or how frequently the sin is committed, does it not?

 

[RogerDC]

Matt 7 is people on judgment day trying to proclaim all their works to Jesus,

And Jesus response is he never knew them, so depart, because they practiced lawlessness

If Jesus “never knew” them, how does He know they practised “lawlessness” during their lives?

Furthermore, you’re implying Jesus judges people he doesn’t know, then send them to Hell, which is clearly absurd. Jesus would not be entitled to judge a person’s soul and determine their eternal fate if He didn’t know them intimately and was aware of every moment of their life.

So Jesus certainly knows those He is judging in Matt 7:21-23. Therefore, one can safely conclude that Jesus is not speaking literally when He says “I never knew you”.

I find it amazing that I have to explain something so bleedin' obvious!

 

[mjrhealth]

If believers don’t have any laws to obey, please explain why Paul says this:

”Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law” (Romans 3:31).

Because they have love, what is it about Love you dont understand??

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Because they have love, what is it about Love you dont understand??

If you are free from all law, then why are you under authority? Who's? Under the authority of God and Christ. Although you might not be under the law of the OT, you're under the law of God, and in that law under the law of Christ. And as a servant, you must obey their wills. So yes, you're not under the law of the OT, but you're sitll under law. And if you don't work to abide by that law, you will be thrown out. But you will say we are not saved through works but through faith. Indeed, you are saved through faith. In other words, through faith comes salvation. But what is that salvation? Following the will of God and then the will of Christ. Salvation comes through faith in Christ, but faith in Christ is not salvation

 

[farouk]

The law was changed (Hebrews 7.12).

What we now have is better than the law (Hebrews 7.19).

 

[mjrhealth]

If you are free from all law, then why are you under authority? Who's? Under the authority of God and Christ. Although you might not be under the law of the OT, you're under the law of God, and in that law under the law of Christ. And as a servant, you must obey their wills. So yes, you're not under the law of the OT, but you're sitll under law. And if you don't work to abide by that law, you will be thrown out. But you will say we are not saved through works but through faith. Indeed, you are saved through faith. In other words, through faith comes salvation. But what is that salvation? Following the will of God and then the will of Christ. Salvation comes through faith in Christ, but faith in Christ is not salvation

Nope Just love this bit.

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Nothing surpasses it, nothing, God is Love

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Nope Just love this bit.

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Nothing surpasses it, nothing, God is Love

God is love huh? Then what the heck is hell?

 

[mjrhealth]

The place where people go who choose to go there because they dont choose God, Your choice, He wont send you there. As to wheter it really exists, I do not know, never being there never seeing it.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

The place where people go who choose to go there because they dont choose God, Your choice, He wont send you there. As to wheter it really exists, I do not know, never being there never seeing it.

Wrong, you will see it. As for whether it exists, you're an idiot to think it doesn't. Got is a being who is full of love FOR HIMSELF. From that love stems his love for others like his son and his servants. He does not love others for themselves. Rather, he loves others for his sake and his sake only. If he didn't, then he wouldn't be God. And since he is full of love for himself, he is also full of hate for anyone who disregards him. Indeed, just as he is lovely to those who are his he is wrathful to those who are not