The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[BreadOfLife]

One thing is obvious
You can not discuss John 6 with me, you can just tell me what MEN told you
Then tell me I listen to men.
lol. forgive me,, I must laugh

THIS, coming from a person whose heretical view of the Eucharist is only 500 years old.

Now THAT'S funny . . .

 

[RogerDC]

The people being spoken of in Matt. 7:21-23 had ONE but NOT the other. THAT is why Christ "never" knew them

With respect to Matt 7:21-23, it's interesting that 1John 2:3-4 says we "know" Christ if we keep His commandments.

 

[Joseph77]

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but

only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
=======================================
1 John 2:3-4 Amplified Bible (AMP)


3 And this is how we know [daily, by experience]

that we have come to know Him [to understand Him and be more deeply acquainted with Him]:

if we habitually keep [focused on His precepts and obey] His commandments (teachings).

Whoever says, “I have come to know Him,” but does not habitually keep [focused on His precepts and obey] His commandments (teachings), is a liar, and the truth [of the divine word] is not in him.


Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 2015 by The Lockman Foundation, La Habra, CA 90631. All rights reserved.

 

[RogerDC]

Thanks you just proved me right.

I will pray for you..

Good luck trying to earn your salvation.

I don't know what you mean by "trying to earn your salvation". Please explain.

Is striving to keep His commandments the same as "trying to earn my salvation"? If so, why is that a problem?

And you didn't answer my question from my earlier post:. What do you mean by striving to keep His commandments by my "own power"? I can't find anything in the scriptures about keeping His commandments by one's "own power" (or not) - the Scriptures merely say "keep His commandments".
So what are you talking about?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't know what you mean by "trying to earn your salvation". Please explain.

Is striving to keep His commandments the same as "trying to earn my salvation"? If so, why is that a problem?

And you didn't answer my question from my earlier post:. What do you mean by striving to keep His commandments by my "own power"? I can't find anything in the scriptures about keeping His commandments by one's "own power" (or not) - the Scriptures merely say "keep His commandments".
So what are you talking about?

let us know. How is your eventual eternal life granted in your view?

As for "own power"

Its doing it not though the power of God, who strengthens us.. but instead is done for self, ie, In order to "gain" something, in this case, salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

I don't know how many times I have to remind you until you finally understand:
Faith = Belief + Works (obedience). These are the 2 essential components of faith.

This is absolutely false. Faith = belief, trust, reliance. Obedience which follows = works and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) You basically make no distinction between faith and works and end up trying to "infuse" works into faith and the end result is trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, which demonstrates that your faith is in works for salvation and is NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation.

The people being spoken of in Matt. 7:21-23 had ONE but NOT the other. THAT is why Christ "never" knew them.

The people in Matthew 7:21-23 failed to do the will of the Father by believing in Christ (John 6:40) which is why Christ "never" knew them. They were not true converts. They were unbelievers. (John 3:18) So regardless of how matter how many alleged wonderful works that they tried to conjure up in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works, their sins remained. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.

As I have shown you from Scripture (James 2:14-26, 1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6) - you cannot have one without the other and STILL have true faith.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

In regards to 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, after we have been saved through faith, love certainly is the greatest quality of the three because God is love and love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth.

1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Those with true faith have love and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) If we have faith, then we have hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) Paul is stressing the importance of love in 1 Corinthians 13 and is not teaching salvation by grace through love/acts of charity/works.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is absolutely false. Faith = belief, trust, reliance. Obedience which follows = works and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) You basically make no distinction between faith and works and end up trying to "infuse" works into faith and the end result is trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, which demonstrates that your faith is in works for salvation and is NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation.

The people in Matthew 7:21-23 failed to do the will of the Father by believing in Christ (John 6:40) which is why Christ "never" knew them. They were not true converts. They were unbelievers. (John 3:18) So regardless of how matter how many alleged wonderful works that they tried to conjure up in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works, their sins remained. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

In regards to 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, after we have been saved through faith, love certainly is the greatest quality of the three because God is love and love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth.

1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Those with true faith have love and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) If we have faith, then we have hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) Paul is stressing the importance of love in 1 Corinthians 13 and is not teaching salvation by grace through love/acts of charity/works.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

amen brother

It is all about what God did and is doing for us, Not what we do for God

All we can offer of our power is works of bloody rags..

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is absolutely false. Faith = belief, trust, reliance. Obedience which follows = works and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) You basically make no distinction between faith and works and end up trying to "infuse" works into faith and the end result is trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, which demonstrates that your faith is in works for salvation and is NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation.

The people in Matthew 7:21-23 failed to do the will of the Father by believing in Christ (John 6:40) which is why Christ "never" knew them. They were not true converts. They were unbelievers. (John 3:18) So regardless of how matter how many alleged wonderful works that they tried to conjure up in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works, their sins remained. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

In regards to 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, after we have been saved through faith, love certainly is the greatest quality of the three because God is love and love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth.

1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Those with true faith have love and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) If we have faith, then we have hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) Paul is stressing the importance of love in 1 Corinthians 13 and is not teaching salvation by grace through love/acts of charity/works.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Uhhhhh, so much for the "simple Gospel" Protestants are always blathering on about.
Did you make that up yourself - or did you have help?

We ARE saved through faith in Christ - as long as you understand what "Faith" is.
Faith = Belief + Works (obedience). In fact, I would include "surrender" to that. EVERY verse you posted above supports this.

the people in Matt. 7:21-23 had works but they didn't have belief. That's NOT faith.
You cannot have one without the other and still call it "Faith". James makes that crystal clear by defining what real faith is (James 2:14-26).

As to the "works" we do, which are an essential component of faith and NOT simply an after-effect - they were prepared for us in advance by GOD Himself (Eph. 2:10), lest we take any credit for them.
A great illustration of this is in the lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 28:31-46). "Belief" is NOT what saves the faithful in this passage - but what they DID for Christ. They believed AND obeyed/surrendered. So much for your whole "Catholics believe in salvation by works" nonsense . . .

Finally - as to 1 Cor. 13:1-13, this isn't about the idea that love is a "good quality" in addition to faith as YOU assert.
It states CLEARLY that you cannot have true faith without love. That's why Paul says that the ONLY thing that matters is "faith working through love" (Gal. 5:6).

 

[MattMooradian]

Salvation is through grace; if that's easy believism, then you got me. However, there are treasures in heaven, those who die for Jesus' sake will be the greatest beneficiaries. Those persecuted for Christ's sake will also receive the greater rewards. The rest of us are somewhere down the ladder. There will be consequences for our behavior, even if we are saved. The Sermon on the Mount reveals these consequences (Christians filled with lust will experience something worse than bodily dismemberment, for instance). If we do not follow God's commandments as Jesus laid out in the Sermon, we will experience negative consequences in the next life. For some of us, the Lake of Fire will be painful. Nevertheless, eternal life has been promised to those who have been cleansed by the cross.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Salvation is through grace; if that's easy believism, then you got me. However, there are treasures in heaven, those who die for Jesus' sake will be the greatest beneficiaries. Those persecuted for Christ's sake will also receive the greater rewards. The rest of us are somewhere down the ladder. There will be consequences for our behavior, even if we are saved. The Sermon on the Mount reveals these consequences (Christians filled with lust will experience something worse than bodily dismemberment, for instance). If we do not follow God's commandments as Jesus laid out in the Sermon, we will experience negative consequences in the next life. For some of us, the Lake of Fire will be painful. Nevertheless, eternal life has been promised to those who have been cleansed by the cross.

Absolute nonsense.

NOBODY in Heaven will suffer anything like you have described. There is NO suffering in Heaven (Rev. 21:4) because NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven (Rev. 21:27). There are no "negative consequences" in Heaven.
Christians or ANYBODY who is "filled with lust" will be condemned (1 Cor. 6:9-10) - not suffering negative consequences in Heaven.

You are right about ONE thing: Salvation is by Grace.
This doesn't mean that obedience and surrender are NOT essential components of faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation is through grace; if that's easy believism, then you got me. However, there are treasures in heaven, those who die for Jesus' sake will be the greatest beneficiaries. Those persecuted for Christ's sake will also receive the greater rewards. The rest of us are somewhere down the ladder. There will be consequences for our behavior, even if we are saved. The Sermon on the Mount reveals these consequences (Christians filled with lust will experience something worse than bodily dismemberment, for instance). If we do not follow God's commandments as Jesus laid out in the Sermon, we will experience negative consequences in the next life. For some of us, the Lake of Fire will be painful. Nevertheless, eternal life has been promised to those who have been cleansed by the cross.

Its not so easy

All we need for proof is to see how every major religion on earth preaches a gospel of Works. Including most mainstream Christian churches..

If it was so easy. There would be more people placing their faith in God based on the cross, and less people basing their faith on their works and religion,

Fact is it goes against human nature and pride to place ourselves under the total reliance of another person.. Pride must be broken for this to happen.

 

[RogerDC]

let us know. How is your eventual eternal life granted in your view?

Believers will be judged exactly the same way Jesus judges believers in Rev 2, 3 - according to their faith and their works. Those "who
overcome" will be granted eternal life (as Jesus says seven times in that passage). My understanding is that "overcome" refers to works - ie, the believer uses his free will to say No to sin and Yes to obeying the commandments. Obeying the commandments is how we demonstrate our love for God (John 14:15) and how we know we are "in" Christ (1John 2:3-5).

 

[RogerDC]

As for "own power"

Its doing it not though the power of God, who strengthens us.. but instead is done for self, ie, In order to "gain" something, in this case, salvation.

I asked you this before, but you didn't reply:
If I give money to the poor, for example, how do you know God's grace did not influence me to do that good work?

If I give money to the poor, even I don't know if that good work is the result of my "own power" or if God's grace played a part, so your "own power" argument is pointless. You either strive to keep His commandments or not.

If I am tempted to sin, but say No and don't sin because (a) I want to please God by not sinning, and (b) I don't want to put my salvation at risk by sinning, how can that possibly be wrong? How can obeying the commandments - for whatever reason - be wrong?!

And pray tell, what is wrong with wanting to "gain" salvation?

 

[RogerDC]

amen brother

It is all about what God did and is doing for us, Not what we do for God

All we can offer of our power is works of bloody rags..

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

”For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments” (1John 5:3)

 

[mailmandan]

Uhhhhh, so much for the "simple Gospel" Protestants are always blathering on about.
Did you make that up yourself - or did you have help?

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. To trust in works for salvation is to not believe the gospel.

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It’s just hard for unbelievers to ACCEPT. It’s a shame that human pride will not allow unbelievers to believe the gospel. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

We ARE saved through faith in Christ - as long as you understand what "Faith" is.

Faith is not works.

Faith = Belief + Works (obedience). In fact, I would include "surrender" to that. EVERY verse you posted above supports this.

Again, faith = belief, trust, reliance. Obedience which follows = works and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Prior to my conversion several years ago, I too was unable to make a distinction between faith AND works (and there was a reason for that) and I basically infused them both together, just as you are doing now and the end result is salvation by faith + works, which renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior.

the people in Matt. 7:21-23 had works but they didn't have belief. That's NOT faith.
You cannot have one without the other and still call it "Faith". James makes that crystal clear by defining what real faith is (James 2:14-26).

The people in Matthew 7:21-23 had the wrong foundation and did not have saving faith in Christ. They trusted in works for salvation. Faith is faith and works are works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

As to the "works" we do, which are an essential component of faith and NOT simply an after-effect - they were prepared for us in advance by GOD Himself (Eph. 2:10), lest we take any credit for them.

By saying that works are an essential component of faith, you are basically saying that works are the very essence of faith, which is absolutely false. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:10)

A great illustration of this is in the lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 28:31-46). "Belief" is NOT what saves the faithful in this passage - but what they DID for Christ. They believed AND obeyed/surrendered. So much for your whole "Catholics believe in salvation by works" nonsense . . .

You just proved that Catholics believe in salvation by works (faith + works). After a casual reading of the sheep and goats you naively came to the conclusion that Matthew 28:31-46) suggests that salvation is the result of good works. All scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of scripture. This passage needs to be taken alongside the whole of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to (Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) etc.. One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation. A tree is known by it's fruit.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 are merely the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because they have received the righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:2-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, obtaining salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof), not simply on the faith from which these works follow. You must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture. We must properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

Finally - as to 1 Cor. 13:1-13, this isn't about the idea that love is a "good quality" in addition to faith as YOU assert.
It states CLEARLY that you cannot have true faith without love. That's why Paul says that the ONLY thing that matters is "faith working through love" (Gal. 5:6).

No, you are trying to turn 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 into salvation through faith + love/acts of charity/works. Once again, in regards to 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, after we have been saved through faith, love certainly is the greatest quality of the three because God is love and love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth. How much faith and hope will we need in heaven in the presence of the Lord?

1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Those with true faith have love and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) If we have faith, then we have hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) Paul is stressing the importance of love in 1 Corinthians 13 and is not teaching salvation by grace through love/acts of charity/works.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I asked you this before, but you didn't reply:
If I give money to the poor, for example, how do you know God's grace did not influence me to do that good work?

If I give money to the poor, even I don't know if that good work is the result of my "own power" or if God's grace played a part, so your "own power" argument is pointless. You either strive to keep His commandments or not.

If I am tempted to sin, but say No and don't sin because (a) I want to please God by not sinning, and (b) I don't want to put my salvation at risk by sinning, how can that possibly be wrong? How can obeying the commandments - for whatever reason - be wrong?!

And pray tell, what is wrong with wanting to "gain" salvation?

I am not God, its not up to me

However, If you say you did them because you were working toward receiving eternal life. THEN I can judge your motive

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Believers will be judged exactly the same way Jesus judges believers in Rev 2, 3 - according to their faith and their works. Those "who
overcome" will be granted eternal life (as Jesus says seven times in that passage). My understanding is that "overcome" refers to works - ie, the believer uses his free will to say No to sin and Yes to obeying the commandments. Obeying the commandments is how we demonstrate our love for God (John 14:15) and how we know we are "in" Christ (1John 2:3-5).

so we have to work hard, and have many good works, so that we can overcome and earn savation

Thank you I think you just made my point for me

As for who is the one who overcomes?

John gives us this answer

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

No works inluded, Just being born of God, which is accomplished through faith.

 

[Tong2020]

Greetings all! I'm new here. In fact this is my first post. So I'd like to apologize because I could not really go and read all the post as they are quite a lot already. So, let me just say the following as my response to the subject of this thread.


BRETHREN:

SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES.

SALVATION IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (KJV)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,(ESV)

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE JEW BY FAITH.

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE GENTILE THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.(KJV)

Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.(ESV)

Tong
R0001

 

[Randy Kluth]

Most churches today teach false doctrines for several reasons:
ignorance, unbelief, for popularity, for financial benefit, etc.
Only a few churches are teaching correct doctrine these days.
There is more to correct doctrine than “Jesus is Lord and Savior”.
Many Spirit-filled Christians are warning, “The church is fast asleep!”

Grace-only, cheap-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism …
are all called antinomianism! This is the notion that a one-time
justification saves … apart from sanctification. But, this is an
incomplete understanding of God’s wonderful free gift of grace!

The problem with easy-believism is that it allows
those who are living in hypocrisy, disobedience, and sin
(i.e. those who are NOT walking in obedience)
to live comfortably with a false assurance of salvation!
This leads to the tragedy described in Matthew 7:21-23 (for example).

“… some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches,
saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives.
… they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” (Jude 4-5, NLT)

NOTE: We are talking here about believers who have received the Holy Spirit.

There are at least 10 NT verses for each of the following truths …

Believers prove they have true saving faith:
1 -- by their obedience
2 -- by practicing righteousness
3 -- by living holy lives
4 -- by having a healthy fear of God
5 -- by repenting of their occasional sins
6 –- by overcoming sin, the world, Satan, persecution
7 -- by enduring in the faith to the end of their lives

Re: #4 … If people are believing and trusting in grace-only, cheap-grace,
hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc., HOW can they be fearing God?

So, all of these verses PROVE the road to eternal life is indeed narrow,
and believers are responsible for playing their part in their salvation!
Or, shall we view these verses as merely bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?

Initially, through His grace, God gives to new believers:
Jesus’ righteousness, redemption, reconciliation, etc. and salvation.
However, this grace/salvation is NOT guaranteed to last forever!
Because ONLY their old-past-former sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9).
And because NT verses warn about the possibility of losing salvation.

Some believers became “estranged from Christ”
… they had “fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4).

Some believers are “of those who draw back to perdition” (Hebrews 10:39).

And there are many more warning verses.
.

I don't personally believe someone who has *truly* received eternal life will lose it. The important matter is to establish that we truly *are saved!*

I couldn't agree more, however, with the concern over antinomianism or "cheap grace." This was the whole message to the 7 churches in the book of Revelation. Most of the churches had problems among their Christian congregants, and obviously it would have to do with letting down their guard and tolerating sin. This is the same thing you're describing as "cheap grace."

I don't, therefore, see it so much as a matter of salvation, but more a matter of sanctification. These were real Christians who had trouble remaining sanctified. So that message must go beyond getting saved to staying sanctified.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Greetings all! I'm new here. In fact this is my first post. So I'd like to apologize because I could not really go and read all the post as they are quite a lot already. So, let me just say the following as my response to the subject of this thread.


BRETHREN:

SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES.

SALVATION IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (KJV)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,(ESV)

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE JEW BY FAITH.

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE GENTILE THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.(KJV)

Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.(ESV)

Tong
R0001

Amen, and welcome!!