entire sanctification is an obtainable goal.

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation is desiring to walk in Gods ways.

No, This is where you are wrong.

Salvation is being saved from Hell. Saved from eternal Death, Saved from spiritual death, It is one who was dead in christ being made alive to God

It is FROM OUT OF THIS FACT, that we desire to walk in Gods ways, and it empowers us to walk in Gods way.

If one hates Gods ways, one hates God, because His will is the expression of who He is.

If one hates God

1. They will never repent
2. They will never come to faith
3. They will never be saved

So why are we talking about God haters and salvation in the same breath?

Jesus put it like this

If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:15

What I find absurd is the line that some follow
23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
1 John 3:23

The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent
John 6:29

So belief is obeying Gods commands, that is all one has to do.
It is possible to create a cause and effect loop in this logic, except it excludes the problem of a selfish sinful heart and how we love from the heart in our walk with Jesus. Some of this discussion though is not helpful, because if anyone does not know what love is, in themselves, when they personally loves another, nothing that is shared will get through.

The Lord in my experience though is brilliant at getting us into this place where we see our love, our weakness and where His love and strength took Him, and pow, we get humbled and thankful, and praise lifts from our hearts to Him, for His forgiveness and grace to us through the cross.
Now every believer I have ever met knows this reality, it is our birth and foundation. So when I met others who claim many other things, I have to believe they do not know my Lord and Saviour at all.

God bless you

The ironic thing is you cannot lay a foundation in another, they either connect or they do not. And because you could say this is a mystical experience to be born of the Lord, it is not an argument, only a testimony. It is also true, when you share something you care about, some disengage and do not care at all, and others are struck to the heart. It is their choice. So I just praise the Lord, and know each individual has their walk to walk.

Cause and effent is essential though

Gods work on the cross caused the effect of His being able to offer salvation to the world

Gods drawing us to him and teaching us causes the effect of us being able to chose yes God I want what you are offering, or to say no thank you God

When we say Yes, The effect of God adopting us into his family. Making us alive in him, Giving us his spirit. and sharing us with overflowing love that never falls short causes the effect uf us desiring out of gratitude and his power to walk in his ways. and do all the things you shared in these passages that Gods children do.

Its not a question of iff they do those things, It iis a matter of fact, because of the cause of Gods love and work, they WILL do those things.

I think this is where the division between grace and works is found

One says it must be done

The other says, By Gods power. It will be done.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Where in scripture does God say "Disobey me, I will forgive you, dishonour me and I will save you, hate my ways and I will give you everything you ever wanted."

There is a sense in which you can make a negative, do not do this, into a positive, its okay, I will sort everything out.
The key shift in logic is responsibility and consequences. Once responsibility is taken away, you are a person out of control, and consequences, the problems and suffering created will be cleaned up, then one can say, everything is fine, a negative, feeling bad about failure, can be a positive, belief that it is all sorted out and nothing bad individually will be a problem.

The line can then be taken, those who say we need to own our actions and their consequences are evil condemning people, because it creates guilt, bad feeling and a sense of rejection, which is unbelief that everything is actually sorted out, and therefore is the enemy of this kind of belief.

This all comes together with entire sanctification, because if salvation is resolution of ones life, by walking like Jesus, then there is true responsibility and true solutions. If on the other hand you believe responsibility and consequences are not ours to have, just belief, then this is the enemy speaking.

Not surprisingly then some will regard this proposition as the enemy. God bless you all.

Were does scripture say Gods born again spirit filled, adopted, made alive, Blessed with every spiritual blessing under heaven

will do these things ?

i can't find it

 

[Joseph77]

God does not change.

Amen and HalleluYah! Yes!

To claim that sinners are now safe, without change, without love, without being in Christ and walking in His righteous ways is to deny the very heart of God and His will.

The false worldwide gospel, worshiping the beast, serving demons, does just this.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus says, on judgment day, begone from Me, I never knew you....
to a multitude of 'believers' already 'saved' today (they think), because they trust in a false gospel, a lie, and do not turn to God for the truth, they do not repent. They do not obey Jesus , they do not seek the Father, they do not seek God's True Kingdom.

Yes, He says those who used their works as the reason why They think God should let them in.

He says he NEVER knew them Meaning these workers were never born again, spirit filled people of God

 

[Candidus]

amen, and if paul never made it, Who are we to think we have ever made it

The devil didn't make it either... and this is how you approach Scripture? Looking for loopholes?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And yet you just either 'guessed', or posted knowing, that "osas doctrine" is not proven truth.

No, I said it is proven truth

Saying a doctrine is truth''and saying I can know a persons salvation status are two different things.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The devil didn't make it either... and this is how you approach Scripture? Looking for loopholes?

The devil is not given an opportunity to make it nore does he desire to

Loopholes? lol, I my friend is not looking for loopholes

I am also not trying to save myself by thinking I am something I am not.

 

[Candidus]

We have indeed been redeemed from the world...to enter into the training and selection process of God. We have entered into a race that is based on faith and faithfulness.

But few take the race seriously enough. Many will fail the grace of God. They figure they don't need to run because they are redeemed into the race. They don't realize that they have not yet made the grade....and refuse to press forward because of assumptions and presumptions.

Many will be disqualified from the race AFTER having been redeemed. Just like when the Israelites were redeemed from among the people of Egypt...but only to perish in the wilderness.

It's about OUR attitude. We will be judged based on that...and what we did with what we have been given.

we need grace because we have failed

it is troubling you think that you can earn it

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Arguing something false is true, by stating what is false first, as a premise, is not kosher.

That's the problem

What you think is false is true

I know I can not convince you of this, But whether you believe it or not. Does not make it false

 

[Candidus]

Amen, Thats why Eternal security, eternal life, OSAS, whatever you want to call it, is a proven Doctrine

Here we go again, inventing things that are not in the Bible like "payment for sins," and saying that it is Scripture!

"I don't care what the Bible has to say; it's proven doctrine!"

 

[Joseph77]

No, I said it is proven truth

That's the problem

What you think is false is true.

You "assumed" a lie was true, then said it is proven truth, using the lie, as a premise.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled

That does not say one can earn Grace

It says in the whole passage, That not everyone the author spoke to were true children. In fact it speaks of being illegitimate children earlier

We are made Holy By God. Not ourself.

If we fail to recieve the grace gift God offers. We will fail to come to Grace. and as such, "fall short"

 

[Candidus]

Arguing something false is true, by stating what is false first, as a premise, is not kosher.

Making up your own supporting evidence is the modus operandi of someone committed to a predetermined philosophy they mentally to justify. It is pure circular reasoning that extrabiblical does not need the Scriptures for its justification.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here we go again, inventing things that are not in the Bible like "payment for sins," and saying that it is Scripture!

"I don't care what the Bible has to say; it's proven doctrine!"

Yes, This is how I see that you view scripture.

And yes, it is sad

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's the problem

What you think is false is true.

You "assumed" a lie was true, then said it is proven truth, using the lie, as a premise.

Well.

You have yet to prove this point

So I will continue to believe until you or someone else can show me otherwise.

And if all you are going to do is say I am wrong in every post. I will discontinue any conversation with you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Making up your own supporting evidence is the modus operandi of someone committed to a predetermined philosophy they mentally to justify. It is pure circular reasoning that extrabiblical does not need the Scriptures for its justification.

Sounds just like you

Fact is, making strawman arguments like this, which can be turned around and be just as apply applied to yourself. shows that maybe just maybe, its all you have.

And maybe I should move on from you also..

 

[FollowHim]

What?
Again you are looking at works again.

This phrase here is like being at school with a teacher making ones work.
In your view, you regard my proposition as works.

If I am justified in Christ, can I be disowned by denying the very basis of Christ himself.
The merciful servant parable seems to say yes.

23 "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 "The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.'
27 The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29 "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30 "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.
31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.
33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'
34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
Matt 18:23-34

The Kingdom of heaven is like this, as Jesus says. If we do not respond as we should, God will take away what He has given us.

 

[Joseph77]

You have yet to prove this point

So I will continue to believe until you or someone else can show me otherwise.

This is true. Since one of the premises you accepted (how long ago) is false, but it is your 'foundation', contrary to Scripture, but you believed it, being deceived by it,

 

[Joseph77]

You have yet to prove this point

?
You assumed an error was truth.
The Scripture that clearly shows the osas doctrines you espouse are false, you ignore or change to your liking, because you already follow another voice, another way.

So all the "proof", is "POOF!", for you, gone, invisible, not acceptable, not even comprehensible to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This phrase here is like being at school with a teacher making ones work.
In your view, you regard my proposition as works.

Yes, And I have based my view based on what you have said, and shown you why I believe it.

And have yet to see you show me how I got what you said wrong. You just keep giving more and more examples. which continue to strengthen my view.

If I am justified in Christ, can I be disowned by denying the very basis of Christ himself.
The merciful servant parable seems to say yes.

23 "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 "The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.'
27 The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29 "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30 "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.
31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.
33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'
34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
Matt 18:23-34

The Kingdom of heaven is like this, as Jesus says. If we do not respond as we should, God will take away what He has given us.

Does not John answer this question?

Those who deny Jesus are called antichrists, and he is very specific, when he says these people. who at one time were part of the church and have left. WERE NEVER OF US, for if they were of us, THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT.

So if they never were of us, Were they ever justified?

The answer can ONLY be no