The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't personally believe someone who has *truly* received eternal life will lose it. The important matter is to establish that we truly *are saved!*

I couldn't agree more, however, with the concern over antinomianism or "cheap grace." This was the whole message to the 7 churches in the book of Revelation. Most of the churches had problems among their Christian congregants, and obviously it would have to do with letting down their guard and tolerating sin. This is the same thing you're describing as "cheap grace."

I don't, therefore, see it so much as a matter of salvation, but more a matter of sanctification. These were real Christians who had trouble remaining sanctified. So that message must go beyond getting saved to staying sanctified.

Amen, Well said

Sadly, People want to relate justification to sanctification or christian growth

 

[Tong2020]

Most churches today teach false doctrines for several reasons:
ignorance, unbelief, for popularity, for financial benefit, etc.
Only a few churches are teaching correct doctrine these days.
There is more to correct doctrine than “Jesus is Lord and Savior”.
Many Spirit-filled Christians are warning, “The church is fast asleep!”

Grace-only, cheap-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism …
are all called antinomianism! This is the notion that a one-time
justification saves … apart from sanctification. But, this is an
incomplete understanding of God’s wonderful free gift of grace!

The problem with easy-believism is that it allows
those who are living in hypocrisy, disobedience, and sin
(i.e. those who are NOT walking in obedience)
to live comfortably with a false assurance of salvation!
This leads to the tragedy described in Matthew 7:21-23 (for example).

“… some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches,
saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives.
… they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” (Jude 4-5, NLT)

NOTE: We are talking here about believers who have received the Holy Spirit.

There are at least 10 NT verses for each of the following truths …

Believers prove they have true saving faith:
1 -- by their obedience
2 -- by practicing righteousness
3 -- by living holy lives
4 -- by having a healthy fear of God
5 -- by repenting of their occasional sins
6 –- by overcoming sin, the world, Satan, persecution
7 -- by enduring in the faith to the end of their lives

Re: #4 … If people are believing and trusting in grace-only, cheap-grace,
hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc., HOW can they be fearing God?

So, all of these verses PROVE the road to eternal life is indeed narrow,
and believers are responsible for playing their part in their salvation!
Or, shall we view these verses as merely bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?

Initially, through His grace, God gives to new believers:
Jesus’ righteousness, redemption, reconciliation, etc. and salvation.
However, this grace/salvation is NOT guaranteed to last forever!
Because ONLY their old-past-former sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9).
And because NT verses warn about the possibility of losing salvation.

Some believers became “estranged from Christ”
… they had “fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4).

Some believers are “of those who draw back to perdition” (Hebrews 10:39).

And there are many more warning verses.
.

When one is converted, it does not automatically transform him into the image of Jesus Christ, perfectly holy. Transformation is a lifelong process.

@Zachary, please consider what the passage says concerning the Christian:

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. (ESV)

The Christian (you, me, us), are under grace.

Romans 6:15 Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! (ESV)

Clearly, not that we are under grace, that we can sin. By no means! That was clear. We are not to sin, even while we are under grace.

So, does being under grace allow the Christian to sin? No sir.


Tong
R0002

 

[Joseph77]

Greetings all! I'm new here. In fact this is my first post. So I'd like to apologize because I could not really go and read all the post as they are quite a lot already. So, let me just say the following as my response to the subject of this thread.


BRETHREN:

SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES.

SALVATION IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (KJV)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,(ESV)

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE JEW BY FAITH.

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE GENTILE THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.(KJV)

Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.(ESV)

Tong
R0001

Are you grown in Christ Jesus, saved from the number of false gospels world wide and on this forum ? (as well as obviously saved from sin, self, the flesh, the devil, and the world/ desires, prosperity and other false gospels)

 

[Tong2020]

Are you grown in Christ Jesus, saved from the number of false gospels world wide and on this forum ? (as well as obviously saved from sin, self, the flesh, the devil, and the world/ desires, prosperity and other false gospels)

I beg your pardon, but what do you mean?

Tong
R0003

 

[Joseph77]

I beg your pardon, but what do you mean?

Tong
R0003

Do you have fellowship someplace that teaches the truth, and exposes the false gospels if they are brought ?
i.e. someplace that agrees that those who bring a false gospel are anathema, accursed ?

Do the brethren you have fellowship with in person, if any, know how to test and prove a message by Scripture, as written in Scripture, before accepting it ?

 

[Rita]

Hi Tong2020
Welcome to the forum xx
Rita

 

[Tong2020]

Hi Tong2020
Welcome to the forum xx
Rita

Thank you Rita.

Greetings in Christ from me to you!

Tong
R0005

 

[BreadOfLife]

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. To trust in works for salvation is to not believe the gospel.

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It’s just hard for unbelievers to ACCEPT. It’s a shame that human pride will not allow unbelievers to believe the gospel. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

Faith is not works.

Again, faith = belief, trust, reliance. Obedience which follows = works and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Prior to my conversion several years ago, I too was unable to make a distinction between faith AND works (and there was a reason for that) and I basically infused them both together, just as you are doing now and the end result is salvation by faith + works, which renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior.

The people in Matthew 7:21-23 had the wrong foundation and did not have saving faith in Christ. They trusted in works for salvation. Faith is faith and works are works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

By saying that works are an essential component of faith, you are basically saying that works are the very essence of faith, which is absolutely false. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:10)

You just proved that Catholics believe in salvation by works (faith + works). After a casual reading of the sheep and goats you naively came to the conclusion that Matthew 28:31-46) suggests that salvation is the result of good works. All scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of scripture. This passage needs to be taken alongside the whole of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to (Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) etc.. One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation. A tree is known by it's fruit.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 are merely the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because they have received the righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:2-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, obtaining salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof), not simply on the faith from which these works follow. You must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture. We must properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

No, you are trying to turn 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 into salvation through faith + love/acts of charity/works. Once again, in regards to 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, after we have been saved through faith, love certainly is the greatest quality of the three because God is love and love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth. How much faith and hope will we need in heaven in the presence of the Lord?

1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Those with true faith have love and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) If we have faith, then we have hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) Paul is stressing the importance of love in 1 Corinthians 13 and is not teaching salvation by grace through love/acts of charity/works.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Your entire argument collapses because you refer to "works" as if they are something that WE take credit for.
Paul assures us in Eph. 2:10 that the works we do as an essential component of our faith were prepared FOR us by GOD in advance.

The works that the Bible states ate not efficacious are works of the LAW.
Rom. 3:28
"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the LAW."

Gal. 2:16
. . . nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the LAW but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the LAW; since by the works of the LAW no flesh will be justified.

Gal. 3:2
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the LAW, or by hearing with faith?

Faith is NOT simply "belief".
"Trust" and "reliance" INCLUDE works that God has prepared for us. We don't trust and rely on ourselves and our OWN beliefs - but on that which HE has done for us.

As James emphatically states (James 2:14-26) - faith is ALIVE or it is NOT faith at all . . .

 

[RogerDC]

You just proved that Catholics believe in salvation by works (faith + works).

How is "salvation by works" the same as "salvation by faith + works"? They are not the same thing - not even close.

Catholics believe in salvation by faith and works, NOT salvation by works. Speaking of works, did you know it's a sin to lie?

 

[Joseph77]

Did you know how many times those chosen by God lied, and it was not sin ? (in the BIBLE)

Did you even know it is not one of the ten commandments/words/ given by God to God's people ?

Did you ever even think about how many times the hierarchy has lied just in your lifetime ? (beyond counting)

 

[Jay Ross]

Did you know how many times those chosen by God lied, and it was not sin ? (in the BIBLE)

Did you even know it is not one of the ten commandments/words/ given by God to God's people ?

Did you ever even think about how many times the hierarchy has lied just in your lifetime ? (beyond counting)

Guess what Joseph77 you just told a big furphy above. Lying is one way of simply not measuring up to God's standard as recorded in the Ten Commandments.

Exodus 20:16: - 16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour."​

That in God's eyes is the same as lying in our understanding of our language.

What you are talking about is your conspiracy theories here.

 

[Dcopymope]

Did you know how many times those chosen by God lied, and it was not sin ? (in the BIBLE)

Did you even know it is not one of the ten commandments/words/ given by God to God's people ?

Did you ever even think about how many times the hierarchy has lied just in your lifetime ? (beyond counting)

In Genesis 20, Abraham told what one would call a half truth by saying Sarah was just his sister while deliberately failing to neglect to mention that she was also his wife, which makes it a straight up lie by definition in any era. Did God punish him for it? No, of course not. Its not lying itself that God has issue with, but more the intent of the lie. There is even an account of God sending a "lying spirit" to the prophets of Israel in 1 Kings 22, but I won't even go there since this is always conveniently glossed over by the self righteous who love to wave the ten commandments in everyone's face.

 

[mailmandan]

Your entire argument collapses because you refer to "works" as if they are something that WE take credit for.

It's your entire argument that collapses because if we were saved by works (even if it was just in part) then we could take credit for those works. Then we would be saved based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption + our works. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. You can't have it both ways. My faith trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in works. Your faith obviously trusts in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. That is the HUGE difference between us.

Paul assures us in Eph. 2:10 that the works we do as an essential component of our faith were prepared FOR us by GOD in advance.

Saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10) does not make works an essential component or the very essence of our faith. Works are the fruit of faith and not the essence of faith. I often hear Roman Catholics erroneously claim that faith INCLUDES.. (then they give a list of works, making no distinction between faith and that list of works). This remains your achilles heel and keeps you trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.

The works that the Bible states ate not efficacious are works of the LAW.
Rom. 3:28
"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the LAW."

Gal. 2:16
. . . nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the LAW but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the LAW; since by the works of the LAW no flesh will be justified.

Gal. 3:2
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the LAW, or by hearing with faith?

Here we go with the saved by "these works" (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) argument. Your argument here collapses because when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So which good works could a Christian walk in which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Are there any good works that Christians walk in which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?

Faith is NOT simply "belief".
"Trust" and "reliance" INCLUDE works that God has prepared for us. We don't trust and rely on ourselves and our OWN beliefs - but on that which HE has done for us.

Faith is not works. Faith is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation, which would be trusting and relying on what HE has done and not on what we do. Relying on ourselves would be trusting in works for salvation. The Greek words for faith "pistis" and believe "pisteuo" (believe) are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in/have faith in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.

Prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I was also confused about this (as you are now) and basically defined faith "as" obedience/works which keeps you trusting in works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Trusting 50% in Christ and 50% in works for salvation or 90% in Christ and 10% in works for salvation is not going to cut it. Our faith must be trusting 100% in Christ for salvation in order to receive eternal life. Anything less than 100% means that you do not fully trust in Christ as your Savior.

As James emphatically states (James 2:14-26) - faith is ALIVE or it is NOT faith at all . . .

Faith is made alive in Christ by grace through faith and we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) James 2:14-26 remains your stumbling block, as it does will all those who teach works salvation. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to give evidence to his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

*So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works, along with faith. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (confirmed, evidenced) by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[mailmandan]

How is "salvation by works" the same as "salvation by faith + works"? They are not the same thing - not even close.

Catholics believe in salvation by faith and works, NOT salvation by works. Speaking of works, did you know it's a sin to lie?

Salvation by works implies that you teach we are saved by works, along with faith. The implication is not that you believe we are saved by works apart from any kind of faith whatsoever, so I'm not lying. Did you know it's a sin to slander? If you believe that we are saved by works (even if it's just in part) then you teach salvation by works, along with faith (faith + works). It simply means you include works into the equation. I'm yet to hear any "professing" Christian claim they are saved by works "apart from any kind of faith whatsoever" so this should be common sense.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's your entire argument that collapses because if we were saved by works (even if it was just in part) then we could take credit for those works.

Amen

If I am saved because I was baptized. Then I can boast of saving myself

If I am saved because of the eucharist, I can boast of saving myself

If I am saved by acts of penance. Then I can boast in having saved myself

God gets no glory, Because God did not do the work.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation by works implies that you teach we are saved by works, along with faith. The implication is not that you believe we are saved by works apart from any kind of faith whatsoever, so I'm not lying. Did you know it's a sin to slander? If you believe that we are saved by works (even if it's just in part) then you teach salvation by works, along with faith (faith + works). It simply means you include works into the equation. I'm yet to hear any "professing" Christian claim they are saved by works "apart from any kind of faith whatsoever" so this should be common sense.

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Works salvation 101

We are initially saved in the spirit

Then we must perfect ourselves/make ourselves holy in the flesh (by our works)

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's your entire argument that collapses because if we were saved by works (even if it was just in part) then we could take credit for those works. Then we would be saved based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption + our works. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. You can't have it both ways. My faith trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in works. Your faith obviously trusts in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. That is the HUGE difference between us.

Saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10) does not make works an essential component or the very essence of our faith. Works are the fruit of faith and not the essence of faith. I often hear Roman Catholics erroneously claim that faith INCLUDES.. (then they give a list of works, making no distinction between faith and that list of works). This remains your achilles heel and keeps you trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.

Here we go with the saved by "these works" (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) argument. Your argument here collapses because when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So which good works could a Christian walk in which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Are there any good works that Christians walk in which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?

Faith is not works. Faith is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation, which would be trusting and relying on what HE has done and not on what we do. Relying on ourselves would be trusting in works for salvation. The Greek words for faith "pistis" and believe "pisteuo" (believe) are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in/have faith in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.

Prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I was also confused about this (as you are now) and basically defined faith "as" obedience/works which keeps you trusting in works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Trusting 50% in Christ and 50% in works for salvation or 90% in Christ and 10% in works for salvation is not going to cut it. Our faith must be trusting 100% in Christ for salvation in order to receive eternal life. Anything less than 100% means that you do not fully trust in Christ as your Savior.

Faith is made alive in Christ by grace through faith and we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) James 2:14-26 remains your stumbling block, as it does will all those who teach works salvation. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to give evidence to his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

*So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works, along with faith. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (confirmed, evidenced) by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

And you blew it AGAIN.
You KEEP insisting that Catholics believe in a "works salvation" - which is a complete misrepresentation.

What you fail to understand is that the Scriptures are CLEAR about the fact that the works we do in Christ are not "OUR" works. they were prepared FOR US by God - so we can't take credit for them.

HOWEVER, as Jesus (Matt. 28:31-46) and Paul (1 Cor. 12:1-13, Gal. 5-6) and James (James 2:14-24) make crystal clear - they are an essential component of faith, along with belief. This is the very definition of trusting in God and NOT ourselves.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And you blew it AGAIN.
You KEEP insisting that Catholics believe in a "works salvation" - which is a complete misrepresentation.

What you fail to understand is that the Scriptures are CLEAR about the fact that the works we do in Christ are not "OUR" works. they were prepared FOR US by God - so we can't take credit for them.

HOWEVER, as Jesus (Matt. 28:31-46) and Paul (1 Cor. 12:1-13, Gal. 5-6) and James (James 2:14-24) make crystal clear - they are an essential component of faith, along with belief. This is the very definition of trusting in God and NOT ourselves.

See this is how the church has you confused

Works are works are works,

If you do them in order to GAIN, MAINTAIN or NOT LOSE salvation.

You believe in a works based Gospel

it does not matter if they were prepaired for us, they were done in love, or through grace or whatever

If they are done to earn a reward or wage, (in this case salvation)

then it is a works based salvation gospel

 

[BreadOfLife]

See this is how the church has you confused
Works are works are works,

If you do them in order to GAIN, MAINTAIN or NOT LOSE salvation.
You believe in a works based Gospel
it does not matter if they were prepaired for us, they were done in love, or through grace or whatever
If they are done to earn a reward or wage, (in this case salvation)
then it is a works based salvation gospel

Thank you for that opinion - which is precisely what it is - YOUR opinion.
The Biblical truth, however, is that "belief" is NOT enough.

As I have told you repeatedly - James 2:19 tells us emphatically that if ALL you do is "believe - then you're NO better off than the demons, who also believe in the truths about God.

Any works we do that are NOT in Christ are worthless (Isa. 64:6) because they are for OUR glory and not His.
ALL works we do that are IN Christ are efficacious (Matt. 28:31-46, James 2:14-26, 1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5-6)because God placed them there for us to perform as PART of our faith (Eph. 2:10) - NOT as a "supplement" to it.

 

[Tong2020]

First of all – too many people – especially Calvinists – are confused about God’s “foreknowledge”. His foreknowledge doesn’t mean that He ordained the future – but that He knows it. God is outside of time and sees ALL of history simultaneously. He already knows what choices we made.

Greetings BreadOfLife!

I have this question for you. Hope you could give me your honest answer. Before all creation, can you tell us what to you is God's foreknowledge? What future does God knows? Is it of things He planned to do? Is it of random things He didn't know will happen if not for His foreknowledge?


Tong
R0015