The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Eternally Grateful]

I've had enough of you and your abuse. Clearly, you have no fruit of the Spirit. You can say and believe whatever you like, I won't see it, because you are going on ignore.

well good. since that is where you were headed it best we do this

Maybe you will learn to practice what you preach. And stop claiming your the one being abused, when you are the one shelling out.

I just asked you questions and why you could believe things when you continually appear to say the apposite

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was using the word "strive" as a quote from who I was talking to (who is now on ignore)

she was twisting things like she always did..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Grace is NOT permission to sin

NO ONE SAYS THIS OR PROFESSES THIS

WILL YOU PLEASE STOP

 

[FollowHim]

The problem Christ faces is all the noise out there, babylon, egypt, men who come with enticing words, Christianty is all about Christ, it is not about mens churches, mens religions, mens wisdom or mens understanding, It is about Gods love for mankind and the works that Christ did to set men free, its not about us being good little children its about His righteousness,

Its about Christ and He is so often the one who is left out, we all desire to be like Him , but the pride of man is a terrible thing, even our own hearts deceive us,

none shall boast none.

I see what you are claiming here, that anyone who walks like Jesus must be a proud person, to claim, look at me, I am walking like Jesus.
But Paul said exactly this, follow my example as I follow Jesus's example. So if you hold following Jesus's example is wrong, pride, something erroneous, you have to reject Paul.

Pride is a problem as Jesus told Paul, the thorn in the flesh would remain to keep him on the earth.
I agree that often we can get distracted on the way of sanctification, but I am listening and following Jesus.
I am not leaving Jesus out, it is His words and His way I am going on.

And where I start is Gods love for me, that puts everything else into perspective. And the fruit of this change is about how His love shines out to others. You seem to have separated out Christs work in you, from Jesus, and you are pointing to Jesus outside yourself, rather than testifying to the great work Jesus has done in your life. Jesus's heart was that we would form fellowships that showed this love, one to another, and there would be His gospel lived out. If Christs work in us is nothing and of no value, why do we call Him Lord and Saviour?

 

[FollowHim]

NO ONE SAYS THIS OR PROFESSES THIS

WILL YOU PLEASE STOP

People do hold this position, so it is not a valid request to stop.
Ironically to claim something is not true, which itself is not true, is a double negative.

The group most associated with freedom to behave as you like are called Antinomianism
Various free grace movements have been accused of following this theology, because of their support of leaders who live in sin and people refuse to expel or condemn this sin.

On forums some have argued that a leader or preacher should not be ignored if they are found in unrepentant state.

9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--
10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1 Cor 9:9-11

Paul was familiar with this very problem and those who hold it.
In our discussions it can easily become that the theology is held by such people is also held by others who claim they personally would never go this far, except their theology actually supports such behaviour and attitudes. So it is 100% legitimate to point this out, and would be a serious failure not to do so. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People do hold this position, so it is not a valid request to stop.

The only people who hold to this are NOSAS people who falsely accuse grace believers (osas) of this.


I usually do not respond to you. But thought I would make an exception here. Since I think it is important to expose a false idea being proclaimed about others

 

[FollowHim]

The only people who hold to this are NOSAS people who falsely accuse grace believers (osas) of this.


I usually do not respond to you. But thought I would make an exception here. Since I think it is important to expose a false idea being proclaimed about others

When some claim there are people who hold an Antinomian position which is clear, because that is where the name comes from, it is not a false claim. It is neither OSAS or NOSAS, it is a position about morality and its value in life.

It is even crazier, when discussions have been had where people literally say they have no moral obligations before the Lord and believe in OSAS.
This does not mean OSAS automatically means this position, but there are valid links between the two ideas. There are NOSAS who also are antinomian, feeling faith is the factor and not morality. If anything there are as many different positions are there are believers, so it shows how some just want to create a polarised view rather than see people where they really are.

I do appreciate your response to me, pity it demonstrates at even a simple level, you cannot accept simple reality. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

NOSAS antinomian position projection.
OSAS claim they are sinners who fail the law, so rely on Jesus to cover their sin, while continuing to sin and being bound to it.

NOSAS by denying they continually sin, dilute the measure of sinful behaviour, so making morality none existant, or Antinomian.

Now a moralist, someone who holds morality has value, no matter how poor a morality is by definition not Antinomian.
If OSAS believers hold there is no law against which they can be judged, on any moral scale, nothing they do is lawless or immoral, that is an Antinomian faith. As soon as you have a moral view of behaviour you have become a moralist. If one gets upset being called immoral or lawless, it actually means emotionally you are a moralist. If one is arguing levels of morality, then you have to pin down the framework, or one is just fudging the language, and deceiving oneself.

Now I could be wrong, but this seems to be the issue. Now those who hate legalism, laws without mercy or love, abandoning morality is a cliff one does not want to go over, because that is chaos and anarchy.

 

[FollowHim]

As a side note, the reason EG does not respond to me is because his responses do not make him look good.
This is so ironic, because the pharisees did not respond to Jesus because what Jesus responded made them look bad.

So does this mean I am speaking the word of the Lord? It is up to you the reader to decide.
Scripture when applied to the heart speaks its truth, and each believer and follower of Jesus will know the truth and the truth will set them free.

I once asked people to pray to Jesus and see how He convicted them. Someone was astounded at this proposition, except that is our faith, to bring Jesus into every decision and to seek His truth in everything we do, Amen. God bless you

 

[Nancy]

NOSAS antinomian position projection.
OSAS claim they are sinners who fail the law, so rely on Jesus to cover their sin, while continuing to sin and being bound to it.

NOSAS by denying they continually sin, dilute the measure of sinful behaviour, so making morality none existant, or Antinomian.

Now a moralist, someone who holds morality has value, no matter how poor a morality is by definition not Antinomian.
If OSAS believers hold there is no law against which they can be judged, on any moral scale, nothing they do is lawless or immoral, that is an Antinomian faith. As soon as you have a moral view of behaviour you have become a moralist. If one gets upset being called immoral or lawless, it actually means emotionally you are a moralist. If one is arguing levels of morality, then you have to pin down the framework, or one is just fudging the language, and deceiving oneself.

Now I could be wrong, but this seems to be the issue. Now those who hate legalism, laws without mercy or love, abandoning morality is a cliff one does not want to go over, because that is chaos and anarchy.

I wonder just how prevalent the Antinomianism view is. And, if it is found in one denomination more than others?

 

[farouk]

I wonder just how prevalent the Antinomianism view is. And, if it is found in one denomination more than others?

@Nancy : I would reckon that sinning, that grace may abound, is pretty widespread...

 

[RogerDC]

It is obvious you do know what producing fruit or salvation is, or you would not ask such questions

good day.

So please enlighten me, O Wise Master.
If you are already saved, why do strive to produce good fruit and become like God?

What if you don't produce good fruit? Are you still saved?

If you are already saved, why not give into temptation and sin? What is to be gained by overcoming temptation and not sinning?

 

[RogerDC]

The problem Christ faces is all the noise out there, babylon, egypt, men who come with enticing words, Christianty is all about Christ, it is not about mens churches, mens religions, mens wisdom or mens understanding, It is about Gods love for mankind and the works that Christ did to set men free, its not about us being good little children its about His righteousness,

If our conduct is irrelevant to salvation, please explain this verse:

Heb 12:14 says "strive ... for holiness, without which no one will see the Lord".

 

[RogerDC]

I just don't. I always take the path of escape provided by God, and resist the devil. What do you do?

"always"? So you never sin?

What is "the path provided by God" that allows you to "always" resist the temptation to sin?

 

[RogerDC]

Scripture is not the ultimate source, God Jesus and the Spirit of God are all that are reliable and Christ is the truth in Him there is no lie. Mens religion and churches have no authority and certainly are not reliable,

Do you have all the "truth in Him"? Do you have "authority" and are all your beliefs "reliable"?

There are none Good but God, not even you. Only one was ever found worthy His name is Jesus and you are not Him.

Rev 3:4 describes those dressed in white as being "worthy" of salvation. Please explain.

 

[mjrhealth]

If our conduct is irrelevant to salvation, please explain this verse:

You know Love that bit you keep rejecting.

 

[marksman]

Nope - just showing you that YOU aren't perfect.
We ALL have sin - and that's what Scripture teaches us.

It must be wonderful to be perfect and let everyone know that they are not perfect. Oh, what bliss!!

 

[RogerDC]

Of the responses that seemed most reactionary, is the group who believe all legalists are evil and the biggest deceivers in the church.
The term legalist is used to mean anyone who holds a moral reference point, or believes one needs to be answerable for ones walk or believes in coming to faith it can go wrong and one fails. Of this group they all seemed to deny the value of a cleansed purified heart, singing praises to God, and claimed the law only condemned them, so found it hard to rejoice in the ways of Jesus.

If you ask me, those who claim they are not under law and that their behaviour and sins are irrelevant to their salvation are those who aren't willing to give up the pleasure of whatever sins they are slaved to. In effect, they love pleasure and sin more than they love God. They delude themselves that they can ignore His commandments, keep sinning and stilll be saved. They don't strive to "be holy" (1Peter 1:14-16) and don't repent, thus they risk ending up like the lawless believers that Jesus condemns in Matt 7:21-23.

 

[RogerDC]

It must be wonderful to be perfect and let everyone know that they are not perfect. Oh, what bliss!!

I believe BOL said we All sin.

 

[marksman]

I believe BOL said we All sin.

He says a lot of things but I have discovered you have to read between the lines with him to know what he is really saying.