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Christian people who do not know, that they do not know.
Christian Ignorance
- Thread starter Jay Ross
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Ignorance is Bliss! Knowing is not always comfortable!
The more someone knows, the more they see that there is so much more out there that they do not know!
When I lived in ignorance and bliss, I thought that I knew a lot!
A modification of Augustine:
Bible truth is shallow enough that a babe in Christ can splash around and be completely safe; and so deep it could drown an elephant.
Bible truth is shallow enough that a babe in Christ can splash around and be completely safe; and so deep it could drown an elephant.
And then we have people like Jay Ross trying to mislead those he may regard as ignorant. So what's worse -- ignorance or misdirection?
FHII
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Christians bashing other Christians...
I love a good debate, but in the interest of understanding for all.
My Pastor made an impacting statement today... He hates ignorance as much or more than I do. But he was talking about Chinese Christians being persecuted. He said that they may not have the truth or knowledge we do (or maybe they do) but they stand on what they DO know and didn't back down.
Ignorance is not a character flaw not is it a terrible thing. It not good, but it is not a reason to speak ill of someone.
I know al more than a newbie Christian who entered Church today and purchased his first Bible yesterday. But I don't know as much as my Pastor, the elders, more John, Peter, Paul or countless others. Not even as much as some on this board.
But I do know I'm tired of Christians bashing other Christians.
I love a good debate, but in the interest of understanding for all.
My Pastor made an impacting statement today... He hates ignorance as much or more than I do. But he was talking about Chinese Christians being persecuted. He said that they may not have the truth or knowledge we do (or maybe they do) but they stand on what they DO know and didn't back down.
Ignorance is not a character flaw not is it a terrible thing. It not good, but it is not a reason to speak ill of someone.
I know al more than a newbie Christian who entered Church today and purchased his first Bible yesterday. But I don't know as much as my Pastor, the elders, more John, Peter, Paul or countless others. Not even as much as some on this board.
But I do know I'm tired of Christians bashing other Christians.
Enoch111, this thread was not meant to be a means for people to attack other members on this forum.
Misdirection of others often comes from Christian people who do not know what they do not know. They believe that their understanding and wisdom is a guiding light for all other people whether or not what they believe is true or not.
I really like it when someone can bring correction to what I know about the scriptures. Sadly, many try to do so out of their ignorance, and not out of God's understanding.
A wise person will listen and learn from what others know to be true by confirming what it is that they have been told is true and in line with the source Biblical Texts.
Shalom
I do not think that ignorance is limited to just Christians. I understand the principle that you are trying to get across.
For most centuries, the Scriptures were not all that available to the common man. Most people were illiterate. While some may have limited light, that does not mean that they do not have correct or sufficient light. Many live up to what they do know, and may never be polished theologians. Some of the great Christians I have known are those that have the basic Gospel and obey what they know. They would never be Seminary professors, yet their life of faith, their love for God would revolutionize Seminaries if you could bottle it and teach it!
More light is a good thing, yet I believe it makes one more accountable. The other extreme is willful ignorance. I remember a disturbing conversation I had with my mother around 15 years ago. She went to a very liberal Church. I remember engaging something she said and I disagreed. I offered to get my Bible so we could see what Scripture has to say... She immediately cut me off and said, "I don't want to know what the Bible says... because then I would have to change what I know." I was taken back.
She knew it was wrong and understood that if she knew for sure, she would be accountable.
For most centuries, the Scriptures were not all that available to the common man. Most people were illiterate. While some may have limited light, that does not mean that they do not have correct or sufficient light. Many live up to what they do know, and may never be polished theologians. Some of the great Christians I have known are those that have the basic Gospel and obey what they know. They would never be Seminary professors, yet their life of faith, their love for God would revolutionize Seminaries if you could bottle it and teach it!
More light is a good thing, yet I believe it makes one more accountable. The other extreme is willful ignorance. I remember a disturbing conversation I had with my mother around 15 years ago. She went to a very liberal Church. I remember engaging something she said and I disagreed. I offered to get my Bible so we could see what Scripture has to say... She immediately cut me off and said, "I don't want to know what the Bible says... because then I would have to change what I know." I was taken back.
She knew it was wrong and understood that if she knew for sure, she would be accountable.
My wife and I both have our Bible open while the Preacher gives his message. We freely write notes and point out supporting or opposing Scriptures. We never thought anything of it until one day as were talking with the the Pastor asked us what we were doing. We must have rattled him!
Since then, I watch the Pastor to see if their are signs of concern. Of I see anything I head off the concern and do something mean... When I speak with them I tell them I am "checking the Pastor"! As I grow older I realize just how little I understand.
But by God's grace I'm satisfied with Scripture.
But by God's grace I'm satisfied with Scripture.
Have you ever read any of brother Yen’s books, or ever heard him speak - Chinese Christians have amazing testimonies, and they are often persecuted because they follow the Lord closely . Often having to meet in secret, they hunger for the word of God , they go miles to hear preaching and suffer much for their faith.....I am staggered that your pastor claims they don’t have the truth or knowledge we have, I would suspect they have more because they have to lean on The Holy Spirit, who has all the truth and knowledge - brother Yen actually comes to the western world to evangelise - because many don’t hunger as they need to.
Rita
FHII
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‘ He said they may not have the truth and knowledge we do ‘ or do you mean the ‘ ( or maybe they do ) ‘ it still implies that they don’t have ‘ as much as we don’ , doesn’t it ?
I realise he praises them, but it seems like a back handed compliment
....Sorry if I have misunderstood it, I can only go on how I read it.
Rita
FHII
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FHII
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Good. Glad we got that settled.
I actually looked into Brother Yun.... Seems like he has an interesting story to tell. My public library does carry his book in hard copy, but I might order a copy from Amazon.
Thanks for the reference.
‘ The heavenly man ‘ is a good read x ( although I read it some years ago now )
Not sure we did get it sorted- it perhaps would have helped if you had explained how I was misinterpreting the words, what perhaps you read in to the words I quoted. You heard the sermon , and quote , in context. You heard how the words were said ect
All I had was flat text, and no real context to go on...and , to me , it still reads the way I originally read it.
It just sounded like a bit of a put down , and that just made me feel sad because of what so many Chinese people go through.
Sadly with flat text people write one thing and it’s heard in an entirely different way by the reader.
I was too tired to explain last night
Rita
Nancy
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Yes, truth and knowledge of God, but many are educated as well - not all because many live in very poor areas, but education comes in many forms.
- Of I see how I was viewing that differently yesterday. You using the word ‘ scholars ‘ helped xxx
Thanks Nancy xx
Ok, Nancy using the word Scholar resonated - what I thought your pastor was saying was ‘ The Chinese are not as good as us because they are uneducated ‘ ( hence my reaction yesterday ‘ )
However I think he was saying is ‘ The Chinese have not had the same opportunities as us ‘
Many apologies.....
Rita
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