The Lord's Side (Remaining neutral and non partisan)

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Agios

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Where did you get your idea of saints? From a book? I call it cultural Christianity...because I see only a culture...not a faith.

I also say that the present rioting is due to police culture not racism. Police will only respect you if you respect them. If you resist arrest they will upgrade their force until you submit...and go overboard at times. So the police culture reacts very strongly against a culture that is against submitting to authority.

Jesus was put to death by the religious culture of His time. And things have not changed since then...except putting people to death. The present church is not spiritual at all...but it is cultural.

And yes...some people think I make things up because I can discern and think without being programmed by a religious indoctrination that people assume everyone is under. I have my own connection with God and an open path into the deeper things of the Bible by the Spirit and the Hebrew language. So I tend to NOT drink the popular Kool-aid.
Would you agree the Church - as in the Body of Christ - is spiritual, but there are many who claim Christ, but are not apart of Him, so it appears the Church has failed but it really hasn't? I don't know if this is really the case or not, I have heard the case that a person is either in the Body of Christ or not, no such thing as a carnal Christian. If God has saved a person, that person is no longer the same person and we can't ignore, the road is narrow, many called, few are chosen.

I realize this is off topic, but you bring it up. Ha
 

Nancy

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In the bible it's called being worldly. I'm seeing the present unrest with the whole fake racism thing as a cultural backlash with many believers getting caught up in it. There is no example from believers at all...taking sides and all. Kneeling before the devil and molly coddling terrorist forces into a gleeful anarchy. These are the forces of apartheid. And to boot, the church is itself racially divided...segregated into Black or White churches. NO example there being given of the deep love that is supposed to be a witness to the world. So culture runs deeper than the love of Christ in most modern believers. There are some that have come out of the system...but even then the learning curve is very long and steep. The religious institution is looking for cultural support by being a religion that is going the same way as the culture. Anything counter-culture comes from the devil...instead of a proper witness of the church that is from Heaven. So people choose between the divisive nature of the worldly cultures the devil is offering. The Republican culture...or the Democratic culture...all from the American culture...but not of God.

One has to be blind to not see it.

"One has to be blind to not see it."
Or - be totally bereft of discernment...even my own Church has gone that way. Although, the sermons are sound...my reasons for attending a brick and mortar building for the sake of the "gathering" have changed. I do have a friend from my last Church, he and his family came to Bflo. Ny so he could take the associate pastors position. I know and love him and his wife so much and they were the two I missed more than anybody there...the only ones I missed when I left.
So, you can imagine my surprise when I saw them walking down the isle of the Church I ended up at
! Anyhow...he calls himself bi-vocational-NOT that there is anything WRONG with that... :D :D )
He and his wife have a vision for opening a Church and, he would take no pay and neither would ANY body else. It will take big bucks but, they are totally relying on their faith and constant prayers. It would be the only one of it's kind around here that I know of....sry so off topic :oops:
 

Episkopos

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Would you agree the Church - as in the Body of Christ - is spiritual, but there are many who claim Christ, but are not apart of Him, so it appears the Church has failed but it really hasn't? I don't know if this is really the case or not, I have heard the case that a person is either in the Body of Christ or not, no such thing as a carnal Christian. If God has saved a person, that person is no longer the same person and we can't ignore, the road is narrow, many called, few are chosen.

I realize this is off topic, but you bring it up. Ha

Well it's more complicated than what can be written here. But people have settled for half a gospel...the parts that are free and that require no cross. So people are looking to gain FROM God. They are in it for themselves. But the whole gospel is about God receiving vessels for HIS use. It's about being vessels for God. It's better to give than receive. So people are going the wrong way...half baked. And there is a heavy judgment for this unless there is a turning around (return or repentance). The gospel is meant to bring people to God in a full surrender...not give people a superficial assurance of salvation. You can't retain your life AND be with Christ.
 

farouk

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Would you agree the Church - as in the Body of Christ - is spiritual, but there are many who claim Christ, but are not apart of Him, so it appears the Church has failed but it really hasn't? I don't know if this is really the case or not, I have heard the case that a person is either in the Body of Christ or not, no such thing as a carnal Christian. If God has saved a person, that person is no longer the same person and we can't ignore, the road is narrow, many called, few are chosen.

I realize this is off topic, but you bring it up. Ha
@Agios Ephesians has a lot of material about church truth and chapter 1 makes it clear that these are spiritual truths, not earthly, organizational ones.
 

Prayer Warrior

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A Biblical perspective from The Christian Post:

Should Christians Be Involved In Politics


Christian involvement in politics has been a much-debated subject at the center of Christian discourse for centuries. Many believers are taught that Christians should not seek engagement in the political realm because "faith and politics do not mix."

There is validity to the caution many Christians have voiced on this topic. Some believers entering the political arena have become so politically focused that they have compromised teachings that are fundamental to the Christian faith. Others have made the mistake of resting all their hope on politicians and government at the expense of morality and godly living. The reality is that hope for change cannot be found in any country's ruling class, but ultimately in Jesus Christ.

As valid as these claims may be, it is a mistake for Christians to completely isolate themselves from the realm of politics. When the people of God do not take it upon themselves to vote or run for office, they carelessly leave the fate of future generations in the hands of wicked and immoral men. By abstaining from the public square, Christians are compromising on one of the most fundamental teachings of the Christian faith: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31).

Scripture's two greatest commandments – to first love God and then to love our neighbors as we love ourselves – are clear mandates for cultural and political engagement. My love for my neighbor is grounded in my love for God; because I love my neighbor, I must protect his inalienable rights and freedoms. But to understand how one's political engagement is related to one's love for his neighbor, the full scope of that Great Commandment must be understood. That is precisely what a biblical "lawyer" was inquiring about when he asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?" The parable of the Good Samaritan is Jesus' response to that question (Luke 10:25-37).

Jesus spoke about a "certain man" who was beaten and mugged by thieves and left to die. Neither the priest nor the Levite who saw this helpless man took the time to help him, but a Samaritan demonstrated true compassion and provided for the injured man's full recovery. Jesus then posed the following question to this inquiring lawyer: "Which of these three (the priest, Levite or Samaritan), do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers? 'The one who showed him mercy,'" said the lawyer, "And Jesus said to him, 'You go, and do likewise.'"

Note how Jesus changed the subject of the conversation. The parable's focus was not on the "certain man" who we would presume to be "the neighbor," but it was actually on the one who "proved to be a neighbor" (the good Samaritan). The point of fulfilling this golden rule is not in the act of loving a "certain man" in and of itself, but rather in being neighborly or loving unto all people.

Jesus left the man's identity undisclosed because God is no respecter of persons (2 Chronicles 19:7; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11) and because everyone is an object of his love, to some degree (Matt 5:45). On the basis of this interpretation, Jesus charged the lawyer to "go and do likewise." Although this is a perfect analogy for a legal representative, this great lesson is specifically given to the church of God.

Throughout the Bible, God tasked his people to care for the world's poor, the oppressed, the defenseless and the widows and orphans (Isaiah 1:17; Jeremiah 22:3). The apostles were earnest about this themselves (Galatians 2:10; Acts 6:1; 1 Tim 5:3); not even Jesus overlooked any mistreatment (Mark 12:38-40), and he rebuked those who posed as spiritual leaders but neglected to be just and merciful (Matthew 23:23).‎
Verses that teach about engaging the needs and rights of others are pervasive all throughout Scripture (Exodus 22:22; Deuteronomy 24:17, 19-21, 27:19; Proverbs 1:3, 21:15; Isaiah 1:17, 56:1; Jeremiah 22:3). It is no wonder that the Apostle Paul told the Galatians that the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Gal 5:14). James went a step further by identifying the visitation of "the fatherless and widows in their affliction" as one of the marks of a true Christian.

Much of today's world is plagued by poverty, and the number of widows and orphans in the Middle East is greater now than it has ever been before, thanks to the Islamic State. Millions are left without homes and struggle to come up with a decent meal for their families.

All of these people are in desperate – but not exclusive – need of our humanitarian aid. Matters such as human trafficking, the persecution of minorities, tyranny and more contribute to the great need and present little to no hope of ever changing, if God's people do not at the very least engage in politics. For that reason Dr. R. Albert Mohler said that loving our neighbors cannot be done apart from our "participation in the culture and in the political process."

The need for Christian involvement in politics should be obvious. But it should also be evident that Christians are the most ideal people for this role. The Bible points out that only the "righteous" can truly understand the rights of the underprivileged (Proverbs 29:7), and as people who "seek the Lord" rely on biblical understandings that transcend their own selfish inclinations and social context, they are the most capable of understanding justice "completely" (Proverbs 28:5). Some may argue that Jesus himself was never politically involved – but Rome was not a democracy. Today's form of political involvement was nonexistent then. Although Jesus was not actively involved in politics during his earthly ministry, he did not undermine the idea (Luke 20:25).

American Christians are privileged to live in a democratic country in which "we the people" are the authority. That means that "we the people" also have the political influence to make a difference.

The Scriptures – the inerrant Word of God – also includes other incidents in which God was not opposed to his people's using political influence. Bible greats such as Joseph, Daniel and Esther were all elevated to positions of political power so that God could carry out his will. Even Paul's Roman citizenship played a mayor role in the spread of the gospel (Acts 22:25; 26:32).

Most importantly, the sobering truth for Christians living under a constitutional democracy is that they also share their political authority with nonbelievers, many of whom hold views with no moral boundaries or which sharply diverge from the biblical world. The current downward spiral that this country is undergoing speaks to the fallen state of mankind; but it speaks even more directly to the lack of influence that Christians have had in public affairs. That alone should be motivation enough for us to actively engage in affairs of the state. Christians who truly care about the state of the gospel and of the church should not expect nonbelievers to lobby in their favor.

To echo the first point: When the moral and righteous people of God do not take it upon themselves to vote or run for office, they are carelessly leaving the fate of future generations in the hands of the wicked and immoral – and that, dear brothers and sisters, is not loving your "neighbor as yourself."

Link to article: Should Christians Be Involved In Politics
 
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Agios

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A Biblical perspective from The Christian Post:

Should Christians Be Involved In Politics


Christian involvement in politics has been a much-debated subject at the center of Christian discourse for centuries. Many believers are taught that Christians should not seek engagement in the political realm because "faith and politics do not mix."

There is validity to the caution many Christians have voiced on this topic. Some believers entering the political arena have become so politically focused that they have compromised teachings that are fundamental to the Christian faith. Others have made the mistake of resting all their hope on politicians and government at the expense of morality and godly living. The reality is that hope for change cannot be found in any country's ruling class, but ultimately in Jesus Christ.

As valid as these claims may be, it is a mistake for Christians to completely isolate themselves from the realm of politics. When the people of God do not take it upon themselves to vote or run for office, they carelessly leave the fate of future generations in the hands of wicked and immoral men. By abstaining from the public square, Christians are compromising on one of the most fundamental teachings of the Christian faith: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31).

Scripture's two greatest commandments – to first love God and then to love our neighbors as we love ourselves – are clear mandates for cultural and political engagement. My love for my neighbor is grounded in my love for God; because I love my neighbor, I must protect his inalienable rights and freedoms. But to understand how one's political engagement is related to one's love for his neighbor, the full scope of that Great Commandment must be understood. That is precisely what a biblical "lawyer" was inquiring about when he asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?" The parable of the Good Samaritan is Jesus' response to that question (Luke 10:25-37).

Jesus spoke about a "certain man" who was beaten and mugged by thieves and left to die. Neither the priest nor the Levite who saw this helpless man took the time to help him, but a Samaritan demonstrated true compassion and provided for the injured man's full recovery. Jesus then posed the following question to this inquiring lawyer: "Which of these three (the priest, Levite or Samaritan), do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers? 'The one who showed him mercy,'" said the lawyer, "And Jesus said to him, 'You go, and do likewise.'"

Note how Jesus changed the subject of the conversation. The parable's focus was not on the "certain man" who we would presume to be "the neighbor," but it was actually on the one who "proved to be a neighbor" (the good Samaritan). The point of fulfilling this golden rule is not in the act of loving a "certain man" in and of itself, but rather in being neighborly or loving unto all people.

Jesus left the man's identity undisclosed because God is no respecter of persons (2 Chronicles 19:7; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11) and because everyone is an object of his love, to some degree (Matt 5:45). On the basis of this interpretation, Jesus charged the lawyer to "go and do likewise." Although this is a perfect analogy for a legal representative, this great lesson is specifically given to the church of God.

Throughout the Bible, God tasked his people to care for the world's poor, the oppressed, the defenseless and the widows and orphans (Isaiah 1:17; Jeremiah 22:3). The apostles were earnest about this themselves (Galatians 2:10; Acts 6:1; 1 Tim 5:3); not even Jesus overlooked any mistreatment (Mark 12:38-40), and he rebuked those who posed as spiritual leaders but neglected to be just and merciful (Matthew 23:23).‎
Verses that teach about engaging the needs and rights of others are pervasive all throughout Scripture (Exodus 22:22; Deuteronomy 24:17, 19-21, 27:19; Proverbs 1:3, 21:15; Isaiah 1:17, 56:1; Jeremiah 22:3). It is no wonder that the Apostle Paul told the Galatians that the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Gal 5:14). James went a step further by identifying the visitation of "the fatherless and widows in their affliction" as one of the marks of a true Christian.

Much of today's world is plagued by poverty, and the number of widows and orphans in the Middle East is greater now than it has ever been before, thanks to the Islamic State. Millions are left without homes and struggle to come up with a decent meal for their families.

All of these people are in desperate – but not exclusive – need of our humanitarian aid. Matters such as human trafficking, the persecution of minorities, tyranny and more contribute to the great need and present little to no hope of ever changing, if God's people do not at the very least engage in politics. For that reason Dr. R. Albert Mohler said that loving our neighbors cannot be done apart from our "participation in the culture and in the political process."

The need for Christian involvement in politics should be obvious. But it should also be evident that Christians are the most ideal people for this role. The Bible points out that only the "righteous" can truly understand the rights of the underprivileged (Proverbs 29:7), and as people who "seek the Lord" rely on biblical understandings that transcend their own selfish inclinations and social context, they are the most capable of understanding justice "completely" (Proverbs 28:5). Some may argue that Jesus himself was never politically involved – but Rome was not a democracy. Today's form of political involvement was nonexistent then. Although Jesus was not actively involved in politics during his earthly ministry, he did not undermine the idea (Luke 20:25).

American Christians are privileged to live in a democratic country in which "we the people" are the authority. That means that "we the people" also have the political influence to make a difference.

The Scriptures – the inerrant Word of God – also includes other incidents in which God was not opposed to his people's using political influence. Bible greats such as Joseph, Daniel and Esther were all elevated to positions of political power so that God could carry out his will. Even Paul's Roman citizenship played a mayor role in the spread of the gospel (Acts 22:25; 26:32).

Most importantly, the sobering truth for Christians living under a constitutional democracy is that they also share their political authority with nonbelievers, many of whom hold views with no moral boundaries or which sharply diverge from the biblical world. The current downward spiral that this country is undergoing speaks to the fallen state of mankind; but it speaks even more directly to the lack of influence that Christians have had in public affairs. That alone should be motivation enough for us to actively engage in affairs of the state. Christians who truly care about the state of the gospel and of the church should not expect nonbelievers to lobby in their favor.

To echo the first point: When the moral and righteous people of God do not take it upon themselves to vote or run for office, they are carelessly leaving the fate of future generations in the hands of the wicked and immoral – and that, dear brothers and sisters, is not loving your "neighbor as yourself."

Link to article: Should Christians Be Involved In Politics

The church itself is supposed to be taking care of the poor and under privileged. The problem is the government, it's too corrupted at this point to do any good, just more enabling of the poor, more oppression of the people. The government is not the answer, it would be wasting time to get involved. If we really care (as we are supposed to be doing), then as the church we should be taking care of our neighbor.
 

Prayer Warrior

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The church itself is supposed to be taking care of the poor and under privileged. The problem is the government, it's too corrupted at this point to do any good, just more enabling of the poor, more oppression of the people. The government is not the answer, it would be wasting time to get involved. If we really care (as we are supposed to be doing), then as the church we should be taking care of our neighbor.

I hope that you read the whole article I posted. I agree that the government is not the answer and that we are not to place our trust in government. The Church should help the needy, but that doesn’t mean getting involved in the political process is a waste of time. It's not an either/or situation. As Christians we can help the needy and be involved in politics in whatever way the Lord calls us to be.

Here's an example where God used a Christian woman in this process. He raised this woman up in my state to write our home school law. This has enabled many Christian parents to raise our children in the admonition of the Lord as we are commanded to do. We have been able to protect our children from the anti-biblical teachings in the public schools.

Years ago, God called me to be involved in the political process in order to expose evil practices in the schools. The scripture He gave me was Ephesians 5:11--"Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them...." I was called to expose these "deeds of darkness." A group of parents worked with legislators in my state to keep radical reforms from going statewide and inform other parents about the reforms.
 
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Stranger

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Where did you get your idea of saints? From a book? I call it cultural Christianity...because I see only a culture...not a faith.

I also say that the present rioting is due to police culture not racism. Police will only respect you if you respect them. If you resist arrest they will upgrade their force until you submit...and go overboard at times. So the police culture reacts very strongly against a culture that is against submitting to authority.

Jesus was put to death by the religious culture of His time. And things have not changed since then...except putting people to death. The present church is not spiritual at all...but it is cultural.

And yes...some people think I make things up because I can discern and think without being programmed by a religious indoctrination that people assume everyone is under. I have my own connection with God and an open path into the deeper things of the Bible by the Spirit and the Hebrew language. So I tend to NOT drink the popular Kool-aid.

Yes, I get my understanding of who a saint is from this old Book I have called the Bible. Just as I showed you. To which you never responded.

So, are my view of who is a saint, which I base upon the Bible, what you call 'cultural christianity'?

And those who put Jesus to death, did not know the Scriptures. (Matt. 22:29)

When you say the 'present church is not spiritual', what do you mean? The church as seen in the world manifest to the world? Or, the universal Church of Jesus Christ, consisting of all born-again believers?

The universal Church of Jesus Christ is spiritual as everyone born-again has the Spirit. The church as manifest in the world is always a mixture of believers and non-believers and at present does appear to be lacking in spirituality. But not every local church is like that. There are plenty of local churches that are spiritual and where the Holy Spirit is pleased to move.

You don't have any 'connection' with God that any other believer doesn't also have. You don't have any access to 'deeper knowledge' that any other believer doesn't also have.

Concerning your 'Hebrew language', did those Pharisees and Sadducees, of your cultural religion, understand the Hebrew? Didn't do much for them did it, as they missed it, Him, altogether.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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I hope that you read the whole article I posted. I agree that the government is not the answer and that we are not to place our trust in government. The Church should help the needy, but that doesn’t mean getting involved in the political process is a waste of time. It's not an either/or situation. As Christians we can help the needy and be involved in politics in whatever way the Lord calls us to be.

Here's an example where God used a Christian woman in this process. He raised this woman up in my state to write our home school law. This has enabled many Christian parents to raise our children in the admonition of the Lord as we are commanded to do. We have been able to protect our children from the anti-biblical teachings in the public schools.

Years ago, God called me to be involved in the political process in order to expose evil practices in the schools. The scripture He gave me was Ephesians 5:11--"Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them...." I was called to expose these "deeds of darkness." A group of parents worked with legislators in my state to keep radical reforms from going statewide and inform other parents about the reforms.

And the U.S. can thank those Christians who pushed the 'home school laws' into existence and provided the U.S. an alternative for schools when this Corona shutdown occurred. But they won't.

Good for you in your work and participation in politics as a Christian.

Stranger
 

Episkopos

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Yes, I get my understanding of who a saint is from this old Book I have called the Bible. Just as I showed you. To which you never responded.

So, are my view of who is a saint, which I base upon the Bible, what you call 'cultural christianity'?

And those who put Jesus to death, did not know the Scriptures. (Matt. 22:29)

When you say the 'present church is not spiritual', what do you mean? The church as seen in the world manifest to the world? Or, the universal Church of Jesus Christ, consisting of all born-again believers?

The universal Church of Jesus Christ is spiritual as everyone born-again has the Spirit. The church as manifest in the world is always a mixture of believers and non-believers and at present does appear to be lacking in spirituality. But not every local church is like that. There are plenty of local churches that are spiritual and where the Holy Spirit is pleased to move.

You don't have any 'connection' with God that any other believer doesn't also have. You don't have any access to 'deeper knowledge' that any other believer doesn't also have.

Concerning your 'Hebrew language', did those Pharisees and Sadducees, of your cultural religion, understand the Hebrew? Didn't do much for them did it, as they missed it, Him, altogether.

Stranger


Normally I wouldn't respond to this kind of post. But this is my thread so I can't allow major errors to go unchallenged.

Being born again is only a first step towards a walk that is supposed to lead us into the full stature of Christ. It is not the end of the matter but a very weak beginning....albeit a necessary first step into becoming a spiritual follower of Christ.

Now most believers take this wrong. They are taught errors from the beginning through their entire lives. They have poor teachers in so many cases. They are taught to take an initial redemption from this world as a done deal salvation in it's own right...rather than admittance into a race of holiness which is by grace through faith. So the mind stays the same and the thinking remain the same. The outer man steals away God's purpose to serve the natural man. And he learns to lie and reject the truth of the gospel in order to have a presumptuous assurance of salvation that serves the ego...not God.

It's like crossing over miraculously through the Red Sea in order to meet up with God in the wilderness...so that His laws can be written on our hearts.

But look how many people wouldn't learn His ways...they perished in the wilderness so that they never entered into the full salvation of the higher walk of Christ....exemplified by entering into the Promised Land. They complained and whined about how hard the training was. They looked for the easy way for the flesh. Exactly what we are seeing in the church these days. An easy gospel that serves man not God.

So the next step AFTER being born again is to go to God in order to fully surrender into experiencing the crucifixion of Christ through the baptism of the Spirit to walk in His death and HIS resurrection life. IOW the full work of grace. Only then do people have a full victory over sin. Grace is the power that crucifies the outer man...dead...so that the inner man walks in the new life and power over sin, the world and the devil.

That is the breaking of the outer man in order to release the inner man to be free to walk with Jesus in Zion. Or at least enough to be able to be led by the Spirit.

So there are different distances to following Christ. Some follow from a great distance...some very close and some even walk IN Him. So this idea that everyone is the same is based on a religious indoctrination with ZERO actual spiritual encounter, empowering or walk on any kind of a spiritual level. So you have fully exposed your walk and the level it is taking place on...the human level.

And it is a great help to unlock the deeper hidden things of the word to learn the original language God chose to convey these in. Salvation is of the Jews. But then you would have to love His word. No use going into deeper levels if your walk is according to the flesh. It would be like trying to teach calculus to nursery school students. The problem with indoctrination and religious ideology is that it keeps people at the baby stage...their whole lives. Many need to be taught the most basic things in the Christian walk because they have adopted a culture of religious conformity INSTEAD of a dependence on grace.And even that idea of grace is not understood. Dependence on grace means to walk as Jesus walked...exactly as He walked...so that Jesus is doing the walking IN us. No sin. No spot or wrinkle of sin.....but a holy walk...to walk IN Him. How many even believe in that kind of walk...the high calling that Paul speaks of?

Do you know what it means to tremble at His words?

Do you know what it means to walk in the light? (not a philosophical concept)

If not, why do you insult the grace of God to store up wrath against yourself? Why not be wise and fear the Lord?

Hear the gospel of freedom from the carnal flesh and freedom into walking with God through Christ. To be WHERE He is...in the heavenly walk. To be translated into the kingdom walk in Zion by the Spirit. Sound foreign? Does apostolic and biblical doctrine and testimony sound foreign to you? (Of course it does.) These things sound foolish and make-believe to the novice...like raising the dead or having signs and wonders follow where you go. Like walking as the early believers did...in the power of the risen Lord.
 
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mjrhealth

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Normally I wouldn't respond to this kind of post. But this is my thread so I can't allow major errors to go unchallenged.

Being born again is only a first step towards a walk that is supposed to lead us into the full stature of Christ. It is not the end of the matter but a very weak beginning....albeit a necessary first step into becoming a spiritual follower of Christ.

Now most believers take this wrong. They are taught errors from the beginning through their entire lives. They have poor teachers in so many cases. They are taught to take an initial redemption from this world as a done deal salvation in it's own right...rather than admittance into a race of holiness which is by grace through faith. So the mind stays the same and the thinking remain the same. The outer man steals away God's purpose to serve the natural man. And he learns to lie and reject the truth of the gospel in order to have a presumptuous assurance of salvation that serves the ego...not God.

It's like crossing over miraculously through the Red Sea in order to meet up with God in the wilderness...so that His laws can be written on our hearts.

But look how many people wouldn't learn His ways...they perished in the wilderness so that they never entered into the full salvation of the higher walk of Christ....exemplified by entering into the Promised Land. They complained and whined about how hard the training was. They looked for the easy way for the flesh. Exactly what we are seeing in the church these days. An easy gospel that serves man not God.

So the next step AFTER being born again is to go to God in order to fully surrender into experiencing the crucifixion of Christ through the baptism of the Spirit to walk in His death and HIS resurrection life. IOW the full work of grace. Only then do people have a full victory over sin. Grace is the power that crucifies the outer man...dead...so that the inner man walks in the new life and power over sin, the world and the devil.

That is the breaking of the outer man in order to release the inner man to be free to walk with Jesus in Zion. Or at least enough to be able to be led by the Spirit.

So there are different distances to following Christ. Some follow from a great distance...some very close and some even walk IN Him. So this idea that everyone is the same is based on a religious indoctrination with ZERO actual spiritual encounter, empowering or walk on any kind of a spiritual level. So you have fully exposed your walk and the level it is taking place on...the human level.

And it is a great help to unlock the deeper hidden things of the word to learn the original language God chose to convey these in. Salvation is of the Jews. But then you would have to love His word. No use going into deeper levels if your walk is according to the flesh. It would be like trying to teach calculus to nursery school students. The problem with indoctrination and religious ideology is that it keeps people at the baby stage...their whole lives. Many need to be taught the most basic things in the Christian walk because they have adopted a culture of religious conformity INSTEAD of a dependence on grace.And even that idea of grace is not understood. Dependence on grace means to walk as Jesus walked...exactly as He walked...so that Jesus is doing the walking IN us. No sin. No spot or wrinkle of sin.....but a holy walk...to walk IN Him. How many even believe in that kind of walk...the high calling that Paul speaks of?

Do you know what it means to tremble at His words?

Do you know what it means to walk in the light? (not a philosophical concept)

If not, why do you insult the grace of God to store up wrath against yourself? Why not be wise and fear the Lord?

Hear the gospel of freedom from the carnal flesh and freedom into walking with God through Christ. To be WHERE He is...in the heavenly walk. To be translated into the kingdom walk in Zion by the Spirit. Sound foreign? Does apostolic and biblical doctrine and testimony sound foreign to you? (Of course it does.) These things sound foolish and make-believe to the novice...like raising the dead or having signs and wonders follow where you go. Like walking as the early believers did...in the power of the risen Lord.
A man without sin has no need of grace, a man who has no need of Grace has no need of Christ.
 

Episkopos

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A man without sin has no need of grace, a man who has no need of Grace has no need of Christ.


That's exactly backwards. A man who has grace does not sin. A man who sins has need of grace. Christians need to go to God for grace rather than falsely claiming to having His grace IN sin. There is no sinful holiness. But there are active imaginations. I am trying to cast these self-exalting imaginations down to reveal the true state of believers...in the most gentle way possible! :)
 

Episkopos

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  • God sees us as we actually are. There are no rose-coloured glasses on God. And we are doing far less than we ought towards faith in God. We have accepted a worldly expectation rather than a heavenly one. And we will be judged very hard for it. Rejected I fear...because we are not running the race lawfully. We have exchanged the truth for a lie that meets with OUR standards but not the Lord's. We have turned salvation into God serving us rather than us serving God. And that's just the surface of the problem. It gets worse. We have learned to steal from God and be liars...from His holy perspective. But we think all is well in our rich self-indulgent lives. What a shock is awaiting us when the house of God is before the Bema seat of Christ. There will be weeping and great anger. We have refused to fear the Lord, humble ourselves and repent...turn away from coddling the flesh in order to be pleasing to God.
  • To abide in Christ is to walk exactly as He walked...no sin. Holy. But how many even have the simple faith to believe it is possible to be thus translated into the kingdom walk in Zion. Precious few. And even less they who have walked there. And less again they who presently walk there. So the herd gets thinned mighty quickly until a child can count the ones who are doing the will of God in His fulness.

Is. 10:19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
 
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mjrhealth

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That's exactly backwards. A man who has grace does not sin. A man who sins has need of grace. Christians need to go to God for grace rather than falsely claiming to having His grace IN sin. There is no sinful holiness. But there are active imaginations. I am trying to cast these self-exalting imaginations down to reveal the true state of believers...in the most gentle way possible! :)
Oh the one where a man says he is without sin. You mistake Christ righteousness for our worthiness. It is because of His righteousness we are worthy.
 

Stranger

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Normally I wouldn't respond to this kind of post. But this is my thread so I can't allow major errors to go unchallenged.

Being born again is only a first step towards a walk that is supposed to lead us into the full stature of Christ. It is not the end of the matter but a very weak beginning....albeit a necessary first step into becoming a spiritual follower of Christ.

Now most believers take this wrong. They are taught errors from the beginning through their entire lives. They have poor teachers in so many cases. They are taught to take an initial redemption from this world as a done deal salvation in it's own right...rather than admittance into a race of holiness which is by grace through faith. So the mind stays the same and the thinking remain the same. The outer man steals away God's purpose to serve the natural man. And he learns to lie and reject the truth of the gospel in order to have a presumptuous assurance of salvation that serves the ego...not God.

It's like crossing over miraculously through the Red Sea in order to meet up with God in the wilderness...so that His laws can be written on our hearts.

But look how many people wouldn't learn His ways...they perished in the wilderness so that they never entered into the full salvation of the higher walk of Christ....exemplified by entering into the Promised Land. They complained and whined about how hard the training was. They looked for the easy way for the flesh. Exactly what we are seeing in the church these days. An easy gospel that serves man not God.

So the next step AFTER being born again is to go to God in order to fully surrender into experiencing the crucifixion of Christ through the baptism of the Spirit to walk in His death and HIS resurrection life. IOW the full work of grace. Only then do people have a full victory over sin. Grace is the power that crucifies the outer man...dead...so that the inner man walks in the new life and power over sin, the world and the devil.

That is the breaking of the outer man in order to release the inner man to be free to walk with Jesus in Zion. Or at least enough to be able to be led by the Spirit.

So there are different distances to following Christ. Some follow from a great distance...some very close and some even walk IN Him. So this idea that everyone is the same is based on a religious indoctrination with ZERO actual spiritual encounter, empowering or walk on any kind of a spiritual level. So you have fully exposed your walk and the level it is taking place on...the human level.

And it is a great help to unlock the deeper hidden things of the word to learn the original language God chose to convey these in. Salvation is of the Jews. But then you would have to love His word. No use going into deeper levels if your walk is according to the flesh. It would be like trying to teach calculus to nursery school students. The problem with indoctrination and religious ideology is that it keeps people at the baby stage...their whole lives. Many need to be taught the most basic things in the Christian walk because they have adopted a culture of religious conformity INSTEAD of a dependence on grace.And even that idea of grace is not understood. Dependence on grace means to walk as Jesus walked...exactly as He walked...so that Jesus is doing the walking IN us. No sin. No spot or wrinkle of sin.....but a holy walk...to walk IN Him. How many even believe in that kind of walk...the high calling that Paul speaks of?

Do you know what it means to tremble at His words?

Do you know what it means to walk in the light? (not a philosophical concept)

If not, why do you insult the grace of God to store up wrath against yourself? Why not be wise and fear the Lord?

Hear the gospel of freedom from the carnal flesh and freedom into walking with God through Christ. To be WHERE He is...in the heavenly walk. To be translated into the kingdom walk in Zion by the Spirit. Sound foreign? Does apostolic and biblical doctrine and testimony sound foreign to you? (Of course it does.) These things sound foolish and make-believe to the novice...like raising the dead or having signs and wonders follow where you go. Like walking as the early believers did...in the power of the risen Lord.

Nice speech...yet it does nothing to answer my post #(208). As usual, it is just an attempt to reboot and deflect from your wrong understanding of who the 'saints' are.

Here we go again. Everyone is taught errors from the beginning of their Christian life...except you. You have learned all the 'correct things'. You are taught the 'deep things' of God. Did you ask Jesus Christ if He would get up out of His seat next to God the Father before you sat there?

And, just because the things you are saying are foolish and not supported in Scripture, then it is only because everyone is too shallow and immature to understand these things. They are all novices. Nausea.

Stranger
 

Episkopos

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Oh the one where a man says he is without sin. You mistake Christ righteousness for our worthiness. It is because of His righteousness we are worthy.

Are you taking about the filthy rags of Christ's righteousness that modern believers say they have? They have exchanged a human filthy righteousness for a divine filthy righteousness? Or the Gnostic notion that while you sin...God still sees you as pure? Anything but taking the truth seriously?!!
 

Episkopos

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Nice speech...yet it does nothing to answer my post #(208). As usual, it is just an attempt to reboot and deflect from your wrong understanding of who the 'saints' are.

Here we go again. Everyone is taught errors from the beginning of their Christian life...except you. You have learned all the 'correct things'. You are taught the 'deep things' of God. Did you ask Jesus Christ if He would get up out of His seat next to God the Father before you sat there?

And, just because the things you are saying are foolish and not supported in Scripture, then it is only because everyone is too shallow and immature to understand these things. They are all novices. Nausea.

Stranger


Without the slightest trace of fear or humility all you can do is limit others to your own lack of advancement. I am responsible to God....and you are too. So you will have to wait to see if what I'm saying is true.

Is there no one beyond you? Or just people who write books and are popular?

God doesn't do things the way men do. What is highly esteemed among men is abomination with God. (BTW that is in the bible....even without chapter and verse.) You think I'm not teaching pure bible because I leave out the bible references. All that shows is that you really don't know the bible that well. (apart from the verses used to support a false assurance)

But I completely understand where you are coming from. There is such a thing as learning and advancing in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. I am a testimony to that. Just because people are not taking the warnings of God seriously doesn't make me wrong.

:)
 

Episkopos

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So, are my view of who is a saint, which I base upon the Bible, what you call 'cultural christianity'?

The bible isn't talking about 21st century Americans ...or any other kind of rich Westerner...except where it says...the days are coming when men will not tolerate sound doctrine. To them it will bring on a nausea. :)

So we are mentioned in the bible! :) Just not in a way we would like. Can you say... Laodicea???
 

Stranger

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Without the slightest trace of fear or humility all you can do is limit others to your own lack of advancement. I am responsible to God....and you are too. So you will have to wait to see if what I'm saying is true.

Is there no one beyond you? Or just people who write books and are popular?

God doesn't do things the way men do. What is highly esteemed among men is abomination with God. (BTW that is in the bible....even without chapter and verse.) You think I'm not teaching pure bible because I leave out the bible references. All that shows is that you really don't know the bible that well. (apart from the verses used to support a false assurance)

But I completely understand where you are coming from. There is such a thing as learning and advancing in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. I am a testimony to that. Just because people are not taking the warnings of God seriously doesn't make me wrong.

:)

I have showed you in Scripture in places you are wrong. To which you do not respond. See, I don't have to wait. I have the Scripture to prove you're wrong already.

There are plenty of people beyond me, in that they are closer to God than I, that they have more Biblical knowledge than I, that they are in a more consistent walk with God than I. And, they don't want, or need, to tell me. And I find their walk is supported in Scripture.

Strange doctrine you have there. Because I require you to provide Scripture for what you are saying, then that means I don't know the Scripture. I guess there is no Scripture concerning the 'deep things' of God. All must sit at your feet and trust you. Sorry, that ain't goin to happen.

Glad you told me. Else I would have never known.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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The bible isn't talking about 21st century Americans ...or any other kind of rich Westerner...except where it says...the days are coming when men will not tolerate sound doctrine. To them it will bring on a nausea. :)

So we are mentioned in the bible! :) Just not in a way we would like. Can you say... Laodicea???

You didn't answer my question.

Are you saying the Bible is irrelevant today? If you check the dates of when the individual books were written you will find the latest in the first century A.D. and the earliest about 15th century B.C.

Funny how God says just the opposite. (2 Tim. 3:16-17) "...That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Stranger
 
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