'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[Earburner]

You're not understanding me. Those churches that teach the Trinity doctrine, Hellfire doctrine, and the immortal Soul doctrine isn't in anyway the True Church of God, but instead belong to the Apostate Church.
What you don't understand is the stream of time we're in, which is the harvest, where there is a separation that has begun in which the wheat is being separated from the weeds. The weeds are staying in that Apostate church which is continuing to teach the Trinity doctrine, The hellfire doctrine and the immortal Soul doctrine which are false doctrines and practicing all kinds of sins with the Apostate church is allowing it.They teach so many other false things. Also just because the majority of people who call themselves christians don't believe we're in the stream of time that were in and just because the majority who call themselves christians don't believe their church they belong to isn't part of the Apostate church doesn't mean it isn't so. All you have to do is look at Christendom and it's history and how it still refuses to change.

So, for all of your church's reasoning and teaching, you now believe that all other denominations are apostate. Why?
Because yours holds to different doctrines than theirs?
If you can't answer the three questions I posed to you, it is readily apparent to me, that your denomination is lacking in understanding about the Holy Spirit, and is extremely unable to help anyone, especially yourself.

 

[Earburner]

I still don't care about your multiple choice answers. I really don't like someone asking questions like that. You think you're superior when you ask questions like that, and yes I did, know the answer, but the fact you assume that shows that you do think yourself superior. You really think people going to like that about you. Just post something, without the multiple choice answers, if I agree with what you post, I will, if I don't agree with it, I won't.
Also I don't ask questions with multiple choice answers like that, like I said it feels like all superior attitude crap. I don't want to be like that.

I have a superior attitude?
Its not me calling all of Christendom apostate, except my pet denomination!
Apparently, in your mind, I'm already a loser, because I don't sign up and belong to your tribe.

 

[Earburner]

You are still dodging and weaving, but now you are stalling!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So, for all of your church's reasoning and teaching, you now believe that all other denominations are apostate. Why?
Because yours holds to different doctrines than theirs?
If you can't answer the three questions I posed to you, it is readily apparent to me, that your denomination is lacking in understanding about the Holy Spirit, and is extremely unable to help anyone, especially yourself.

Like I said I could care less what you think about me. Anyone who knows the truth that's in the scriptures knows that a Apostate church was to develope or come into existence. You dislike that I believe that other churches belong to this Apostate church that they are imitation Christian organizations that have deceived the majority of people who honestly believe they're christians, so be it. Dislike it, that's your right. You certainly don't have to agree with me. But I'm going to exercise the same rights that you exercise and express what I believe just as you do. Like I said, you don't have to agree with me. However no matter how much you dislike what I believe or disagree with what I believe that's what I will continue to believe and express because I honestly believe what I said to be true.
I honestly believe the Trinity Doctrince to be an Antichrist doctrine. I believe those who believe that man has an immortal soul is not only a false teaching but those who believe in the immortality of the soul is teaching that death in just another doorway to another plain of existence and so they agree with Satan when he told Eve she wouldn't die even though God said that if someone ate the forbidden fruit they would die. I'm not going to go into detail about everything on this post. These are just two of the things I believe to be false doctrines and I'm not going to go into the fine details about these two false doctrines.

 

[Angelina]

You know that I am 16 hours ahead of you don't you brother?

LOL! It means brother that the date and page you sent me would not be the date page I'm seeing in NZT

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I have a superior attitude?
Its not me calling all of Christendom apostate, except my pet denomination!
Apparently, in your mind, I'm already a loser, because I don't sign up and belong to your tribe.

I think You speak out against anyone who exercises the same rights you do. You know the scriptures speak of an apostate church. It's ok when we exercise the same rights you exercise as long as we agree with you what organization is the Apostate church, but if a person disagrees with you if a person honestly believes that Christendom is that Apostate church all of sudden that person has a superior attitude because that person has exercised the same rights you exercise but because that person honestly believes and expresses that belief that Christendom is that Apostate church, all of sudden that person is wrong in some way in expressing that belief no matter how honestly that person believes that. People don't have to agree that Christendom is the Apostate church, people even don't have to like it. However people have the right to express the belief that Christendom is the Apostate church if they honestly believe that.
Also I never think of anybody being a loser and I certainly don't call anyone a loser.

 

[Stan B]

Like I said, think what you want of me, but me stating that the manuscripts nowhere have the phrase, "Son of God," as, "God the Son" is true.

The Angel Gabriel declared:

“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;" Luke 1:32

And Isaiah declared:

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore." Isaiah 9:6

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The Angel Gabriel declared:

“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;" Luke 1:32

And Isaiah declared:

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore." Isaiah 9:6

Nowhere in this post do I see the phrase, "God the Son." I said that nowhere in the Manuscripts have I have seen the phrase,"Son of God," inverted to say God the Son

 

[Stan B]

Nowhere in this post do I see the phrase, "God the Son." I said that nowhere in the Manuscripts have I have seen the phrase,"Son of God," inverted to say God the Son

I don't know what manuscripts you are talking about. Do you have a whole bunch of manuscripts? Do you know Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic? I don't know any of those languages, so I depend upon the best scholars and translations out there.

I don't understand you fuss about "God the Son." and "Son of God. I really doesn't matter, since Scripture declares "I and my Father are One". You can't separate the One God into little pieces.

Scripture is crystal clear to me who Jesus is: The Son of the Most High, Mighty God, Eternal Father

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I don't know what manuscripts you are talking about. Do you have a whole bunch of manuscripts? Do you know Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic? I don't know any of those languages, so I depend upon the best scholars and translations out there.

I don't understand you fuss about "God the Son." and "Son of God. I really doesn't matter, since Scripture declares "I and my Father are One". You can't separate the One God into little pieces.

Scripture is crystal clear to me who Jesus is: The Son of the Most High, Mighty God, Eternal Father

• Ancient manuscripts were often made of parchment, vellum, or papyrus. Parchment was commonly made from the skins of cows, sheep, or goats; vellum, from the skins of very young animals. Papyrus, a primitive form of paper, was made from the papyrus plant, especially the pith.
  
  The original Bible manuscripts disappeared long ago. However, very old copies have been found, most notably the Dead Sea Scrolls of books of the Hebrew Scriptures. Some of these scrolls, including fragments, have been dated to the third century B.C.E. It is estimated that a total of about 6,000 manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures or parts thereof are still in existence in various libraries. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, about 5,300 are in Greek and about 10,000 are in Latin, besides many other languages.
  
  
  
  

 

[Earburner]

I think You speak out against anyone who exercises the same rights you do. You know the scriptures speak of an apostate church. It's ok when we exercise the same rights you exercise as long as we agree with you what organization is the Apostate church, but if a person disagrees with you if a person honestly believes that Christendom is that Apostate church all of sudden that person has a superior attitude because that person has exercised the same rights you exercise but because that person honestly believes and expresses that belief that Christendom is that Apostate church, all of sudden that person is wrong in some way in expressing that belief no matter how honestly that person believes that. People don't have to agree that Christendom is the Apostate church, people even don't have to like it. However people have the right to express the belief that Christendom is the Apostate church if they honestly believe that.
Also I never think of anybody being a loser and I certainly don't call anyone a loser.

I agree with the direction that you are thinking, but what I understand about any church denomination(s) being apostate, is far different than your view.

First and foremost, one must know from God's Spirit, who the Mother of harlots is. If it hasn't been revealed to you, by His Holy Spirit, then you can't know it, and therefore you are left to sheer guessing and wild speculations.

That is why I am focussed with you on WHO exactly the Holy Spirit IS!!
But like the plague, you are determined to rant and rave, just to stay away from that topic. You know that you are void of His understanding about Him, and have been found out.
So, until you get beyond your "stmbling stone"

 

[Earburner]

You shall remain in you fictional belief system that has been TAUGHT to you BY MEN, and logical, analytical thoughts by the human mind.

 

[Earburner]

So, once again, lets review my questions, that I originally posed to you:
> Some are confused over whether the Holy Spirit is:
1. a force,
2. a Person,
3. two Persons, or
4. only just words.
According to John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Since the scripture is plainly in the plural, using the pronouns of we and our, it is apparent that the answer is #3, whereby Jesus is talking about His Father and Himself, as being the Person of the Holy Spirit.<

 

[Earburner]

Barney,
Try to digest this:
"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner.
.
"No one single church has all of His truth, but all of the churches have some of His truth."- Earburner

And also this:
"Truth makes no enemies, except in the minds of those who attempt to refute it."- Earburner

 

[Earburner]

LOL! It means brother that the date and page you sent me would not be the date page I'm seeing in NZT

Ok, this "dim bulb" just got brighter!!
Though I was making jokes about what you were saying, NOW I understand what you mean!
You know, sorta like the Holy Spirit eliminating MY thoughts, so that I can learn His thoughts!

 

[Earburner]

• Ancient manuscripts were often made of parchment, vellum, or papyrus. Parchment was commonly made from the skins of cows, sheep, or goats; vellum, from the skins of very young animals. Papyrus, a primitive form of paper, was made from the papyrus plant, especially the pith.
  
  The original Bible manuscripts disappeared long ago. However, very old copies have been found, most notably the Dead Sea Scrolls of books of the Hebrew Scriptures. Some of these scrolls, including fragments, have been dated to the third century B.C.E. It is estimated that a total of about 6,000 manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures or parts thereof are still in existence in various libraries. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, about 5,300 are in Greek and about 10,000 are in Latin, besides many other languages.

A clear example of human logic and analytical thinking, that NEVER reveals the Mind of God/Christ!
When will you ever learn His thoughts and His WAYS?
(KJV) Isaiah 55:8-9 John 16:13

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I agree with the direction that you are thinking, but what I understand about any church denomination(s) being apostate, is far different than your view.

First and foremost, one must know from God's Spirit, who the Mother of harlots is. If it hasn't been revealed to you, by His Holy Spirit, then you can't know it, and therefore you are left to sheer guessing and wild speculations.

That is why I am focussed with you on WHO exactly the Holy Spirit IS!!
But like the plague, you are determined to rant and rave, just to stay away from that topic. You know that you are void of His understanding about Him, and have been found out.
So, until you get beyond your "stmbling stone"

While the Mother of Harlots includes, the Apostate Church, the mother of harlots is much more than just The Apostate Church. The Mother of Harlots is "Babylon the Great" the world Empire of false religion.
I'm not trying to stay away from any topic, I simply know that because you don't have God Holy Spirit
You want believe the truth. In fact just as the Jews called Jesus the ruler of the demons, a blasphemous person and a slandered etc so you and those like you will not recognize the True Church of God that does have God's Holy Spirit, but instead you and those like you will believe the True Church of God to not only be false but demonic. Just as the Jews said Such evil things about Jesus the people who claim to be God's servants will say evil things about the True Church of God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

A clear example of human logic and analytical thinking, that NEVER reveals the Mind of God/Christ!
When will you ever learn His thoughts and His WAYS?
(KJV) Isaiah 55:8-9 John 16:13

And you a perfect example of ignoring the written word of God.

 

[charity]

Thank you for your reply.
1. Those "first fruits", spoken of them that slept, is definitely speaking of Israel of faith. They had been dead for many years, HAVING NOT received "the promise" of the Gift of the Holy Spirit, the vehicle of Eternal Life. Much of Christianity is in error concerning that issue.
Please remember that without the shedding of Christ's Blood, there is no remission (forgiveness/removal) of sin.
Therefore, all of Israel, who died in faith, were still waiting for the Promise of the Gift of Eternal Life, aka the Holy Spirit.

Prior to Pentecost, the Holy Spirit could NOT be permanently given to anyone.
So then, did they also receive the H/S in the Day of Pentecost? YES! But at that time, only those who died as martyrs.
It is revealed in KJV- Revelation 6:9-11

All others, who were Israel of faith, will be included in the "great multitude", King David being one of them. If you recall, David wasn't a martyr, and his unopened grave site is still with us to this day!
Acts 2:29, 34.
2. KJV- Revelation 6:9-11 is the reality of what took place on Pentecost for all of Israel who died as a martyr. "White Robes" is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.
3. No, they were awakened martyrs, and were resurrected in the time of Jesus' Resurrection. However, as shown in Rev. 6, they are resting, "asleep in Jesus", but now with the Gift of the Holy Spirit, aka Eternal life.
4. Yes, dead for years, and now after Jesus' Resurrection, they were risen from their graves and walking around, being visibly seen by others.

5. Yes! Unfortunately, we have no record of where those resurrected saints went. But i dare say that they were not resurrected back into their old flesh and blood.
6. I cannot deny that there was a resurrection in Mat. 27. And most assuredly, I also can't call it a resuscitation either.

You quoted John 3:13, as if to say that no one can ascend into Heaven AFTER Christ's Resurrection, when in reality that verse speaks of the time of when Jesus spoke it, which was when He was among us as flesh and blood, before His Glorification into New and Immortal Life.
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Hello @Earburner,

I am sorry that I did not respond to these posts of yours. I don't know why. I must have got distracted, left the thread, and have not been back until now. These entries were on page 10, and I see that the subject of the thread has been derailed since then.

I have to go off-line now, but hope to come back and address the points you have raised here.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Earburner]

Barney,
Did you happen to review John 14:23 in your JW-NWT scriptures?
It basically says the same thing as the KJV, doesn't it?

So, if the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, is only "a force", a communicator of God without Life, why are the personal pronouns of "we" and "our" being used in the JW-NWT scriptures? Better yet, why in the plural?
Can you describe who the persons are, that are being referenced, by those personal pronouns?