'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[Earburner]

I told you who the mother of Harlots is, it's, "Babylon the Great, the world Empire of false religion," if you don't agree with this, that's your choice. Also the RCC belongs with the Apostate church which I agree the Apostate Church is included with the mother of harlots but the mother harlots is much more than just the Apostate Church.

Since the answer is in scripture, your answer is too vague to find it.
Iows, you are not saying anything, that is backed by scripture!

Its evident to me that you don't know your NT Bible!
Who are the two "mothers", of which I previously asked you? Shall I lead you by the hand, or can you find it on your own?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Since the answer is in scripture, your answer is too vague to find it.
Iows, you are not saying anything, that is backed by scripture!

Its evident to me that you don't know your NT Bible!
Who are the two "mothers", of which I previously asked you? Shall I lead you by the hand, or can you find it on your own?

I'm not going to let anyone who ignores Scripture as you do to lead me anywhere. Like I said, I've told you who the mother of Harlots is, you don't have to agree with that but just because you disagree with that doesn't mean it's not true. It just means you disagree.

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you in Christ? Because I honestly don't believe, those who believe and teach the Trinity, are in Christ.

well tbh bb ive yet to meet anyone i thought was "in Christ," not even sure what that means? Its a subjective declaration pretty much, isnt it?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Earburner said: ↑
Since the answer is in scripture, your answer is too vague to find it.[/QUOTE\]

Revelations 17- One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls+ came and said to me: “Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters,+ 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality,*+ and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”*+

3 And he carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns.4 The woman was clothed in purple+ and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls,+ and she had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality.*5 On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes+ and of the disgusting things of the earth.”+ 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.+

Well, on seeing her I was greatly amazed. 7 So the angel said to me: “Why is it that you were amazed? I will tell you the mystery of the woman+ and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns:+ 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss,+ and it is to go off into destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth—those whose names have not been written in the scroll of life+from the founding of the world—will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present.

9 “This calls for a mind* that has wisdom: The seven heads+ mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb,+ but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings,+ the Lamb will conquer them.+ Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”+

15 He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.*+ 16 And the ten horns+ that you saw and the wild beast,+ these will hate the prostitute+ and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.+ 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought,+ yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast,+ until the words of God will have been accomplished.18 And the woman+ whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”

 

[Earburner]

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'
(Revelation 20:4)

Apparently you are still thinking that all of that is far into the future!
Would you be in denial if I told you that 2/3 of that scripture has happened and has been happening, since Pentecost, with proof to back it?
Try to think of that scripture being symbolic of the Church Age over time, and not all in one shot, being that of only the Church in the Latter Age.
1. The Early Church Age
(Apostles)
They were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, AND

2. The Middle Church Age
(Gospel Preached to all the world)
(They were beheaded) for the word of God, AND

3. The Latter Church Age:
(Jesus finds no faith on the earth)
(They were beheaded) for not worshipping the Beast, his image, neither received the mark of the Beast.

What scripture does the above prophecy fulfill?
Ans. Revelation 6:11...and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Do you know in what generation Rev. 6:11 takes place?
Ans. In all generations, since Pentecost.

 

[Earburner]

I'm not going to let anyone who ignores Scripture as you do to lead me anywhere.

I'm not going to let anyone who ignores Scripture as you do to lead me anywhere. Like I said, I've told you who the mother of Harlots is, you don't have to agree with that but just because you disagree with that doesn't mean it's not true. It just means you disagree.

I Ignore scripture? Your statement against me, is about as equal as the false witness that the Jews raised up against Jesus.

Earburner said: ↑
Since the answer is in scripture, your answer is too vague to find it.[/QUOTE\]

Revelations 17- One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls+ came and said to me: “Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters,+ 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality,*+ and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”*+

3 And he carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns.4 The woman was clothed in purple+ and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls,+ and she had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality.*5 On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes+ and of the disgusting things of the earth.”+ 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.+

Well, on seeing her I was greatly amazed. 7 So the angel said to me: “Why is it that you were amazed? I will tell you the mystery of the woman+ and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns:+ 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss,+ and it is to go off into destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth—those whose names have not been written in the scroll of life+from the founding of the world—will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present.

9 “This calls for a mind* that has wisdom: The seven heads+ mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb,+ but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings,+ the Lamb will conquer them.+ Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”+

15 He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.*+ 16 And the ten horns+ that you saw and the wild beast,+ these will hate the prostitute+ and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.+ 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought,+ yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast,+ until the words of God will have been accomplished.18 And the woman+ whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”

I see alot of scripture, but I do not see anything of the Lord's understanding about it through you. I might as well have read my own Bible, for what you provided.

But since you did attempt to reply to my question, I will provide the clues, as to who the two mothers are, that are in the NT scriptures.
Gal. 4[25] For this Agar (bond woman) is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother (free woman) of us all.
To get the point, BOTH are MOTHERS!
But.....one "is fallen" , and the other is NOT.
Galatians 4:21-31

Now, since "Mystery, Babylon the Great" is a mother who "is fallen", is there anything that happened to that "Jerusalem, which now is", that Jesus said would come to pass? Think around time of 70AD. Did "Jerusalem that now is" fall?

Remember, its a "mystery" about her! So its not going to be revealed to us by our own mind of logic, but rather by the Holy Spirit of God.

Btw, there are numerous scriptures in Rev. that support the evidence about "the holy city". As you are aware, there are two holy cities that are being spoken of there!

 

[Earburner]

I don't expect you to agree with me, but I read your posts concerning the scriptures. The scriptures explicitly have written down at Revelation 1:1 that this Revelation didn't originate with Jesus but instead orginated from God because the scriptures shows that God gave this revelation to him. This Scripture along with other scriptures in Revelations show explicitly that Jesus and God are not the same person because It's written down in Scripture that the Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and God, long after Jesus resurrection and he's in heaven the scriptures show that the Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and God, but instead of agreeing with what's written down and admitting that The Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and God which is proof that The Only True God and The Only Begotten Son of God are not the same person, you and others who believe in the Trinity will deny this.
Let's stay with the facts. You keep talking of the Holy Spirit as you do, but The Only True God used his Holy Spirit to inspire men to write the scriptures which are The Only True God thoughts as to what is the truth. Since the scriptures show that The Only Begotten Son of God claims to have a Father and God long after his ascension into heaven this is what I'm going to believe. The Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle John to write down several times in the book of Revelations that Jesus claimed to have a Father and God, I'm not going to deny this or teach something different from this. I'm also going to believe that since the scriptures show that Jesus claims he has a Father and God that can only mean that the person Jesus claims to be his Father and God can only be The Only True God. You can think what you want because I believe this, but what is written down, is what the Holy Spirit of God had written down. So those who truly have God's Holy Spirit will agree with what God's Holy Spirit inspired men to write down. Those who don't have God's Holy Spirit will not believe and therefore teach something different from what's written down.

Am I teaching something diiferent than you?
Lets see who it is that has departed from the
Back to John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Please explain how it is that the Holy Spirit, through John, chose to use personal pronouns in that verse!

Next question: Do you use "we" and/or "our", when you are talking about only yourself?
If God the Father, or Jesus was only talking about Himself, don't you think that the holy Spirit would have said it as singular pronouns?

Lets try that out, with the (proposed changes):
John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and
(I or He) will come unto him, and make
(my or His) abode with him.
Now, is that more to your liking?

If so, then find all the Bibles that you can, and CHANGE THEM!

Sorry, you can't have mine!

 

[Earburner]

^Edits:
> different
> departed from the scriptures
Earburner

 

[Earburner]

* But, Earburner, this took place after His resurrection, we are not told that it happened at Pentecost, which was some time later. We are not told that David received a white robe at Pentecost either, are we. We are also not told that the white robe is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.

Since you most likely consider yourself, as do I, a member of "the great multitude" , you will find your answer in
Revelation 7:9-14.

* Those who were privileged to wear a white robe were described in (Rev 7:13-15), as those 'which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb'. Those referred to in Revelation 6:9-11 that you refer to, came through the great tribulation, and were beheaded (Revelation 20:4), they were not those who were raised from their graves in Matthew 27:52.

If you listen to the words (KJV), you will notice that the HS through John, does not put the word "THE" in front of "of great tribulation". To do so, causes one to isolate the expanse of time "of great tribulation", to be only taking place in a small sliver of time.
So then, how do I prove the words "of great tribulation" has been happening throughout all of the Church Age, and not some fictitious 3.5 to 7 years at the end?
Lets look at the "great multitude" in Rev. 7[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Does not EVERY born again Christian suffer "great tribulation", emotionally, psychologically, spritually, as well as physically?

Have you not, as I , come to God through the Blood of Jesus? Are you not made to be clean (white) and sinless before the Father, through the Blood of Christ's Sacrifice? In so doing, are you not sealed unto the Day of redemption?
Are you not one of His? Romans 8:8-9.
By the way, who are you sealed by?
Ans. Ephesians 1:13.

Now, lets go and read Matthew 22:1-14 and apply the parable of the"wedding garment".

Ok, back to Romans 8:8-9.
Who is symbolized as the wedding garment, and/or a white robe?

What is the outcome of NOT having the Spirit of Christ within us, in relation to NOT having a "wedding garment"?
Ans. One shall be found to be "none of His"

Now, back to David!
Since David has NOT yet been resurrected, he shall be included among us in "the great multitude". Therefore, you now can perceive and answer as to whether or not David has been given the Holy Spirit or not, aka a white robe, aka a wedding garment.

How do I know that you know?
Simple! You and I both know, that without the Gift of God's Holy Spirit within us, we shall be declared to be "none of His".

So, since David also waited for the "Promise", but died before He was given, shall we say that God will forget him and his faith, upon Jesus Glorious Return, in flaming fire?
Absolutely not!

 

[Earburner]

* White robes are not symbolic of the Holy Spirit. The Old Testament saints are spoken of as 'sleeping with their Fathers' and have the hope of resurrection.(Acts 26:6-8)

Yes! They are sleeping with their Fathers, but in the day of Jesus physical resurrection, many of the saints that slept rose from their graves", and appeared to many through out the city.
By the use of the word "many", it is evident that NOT ALL of the OT saints were resurrected after Jesus' Resurrection.
Case in point, David's unopened grave is still with us, and so is he.
But, according to Revelation 6:9-11 of those under the altar, the Holy Spirit was also given to them in the days of Pentecost.
As with you, I cannot exactly pin point when the HS was given to them, but anything would be possible after Jesus had Resurrected, BECAUSE since He was now Immortal, His shed Blood had just paid the price for ALL, not just us who are after His cross. Who am I that I shall say that the Holy Spirit was not given to those OT Saints, immediatly after His Resurrection?
I know this much, without the Holy spirit being given to anyone, it is impossible for anyone TO BE resurrected!!
It is the only vehicle of God that transfers to to us His Gift of Eternal Life.

And BTW, that is the real reason of WHY Judas Iscarriot was/is lost.
His dilemma was twofold, he died without faith before Jesus was Resurrected, and therefore was NOT present/alive in the day that the Holy Spirit was freely given to all, through faith. The judgment towards him was, he never came to God through through faith in Jesus, for forgiveness, and died before the Holy spirit was given.
The results? "Whosoever hath NOT the Spirit of God, he is none of His".
Romans 8:8-9.
So then, anyone and everyone who does NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit of God now, it is impossible for God to resurrect them, whether that be into there old life of flesh and blood, or his immortal New life!!
Why? They are none of His, and therefore HAVE NO FUTURE at all.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I'm not going to let anyone who ignores Scripture as you do to lead me anywhere.

I Ignore scripture? Your statement against me, is about as equal as the false witness that the Jews raised up against Jesus.


I see alot of scripture, but I do not see anything of the Lord's understanding about it through you. I might as well have read my own Bible, for what you provided.

But since you did attempt to reply to my question, I will provide the clues, as to who the two mothers are, that are in the NT scriptures.
Gal. 4[25] For this Agar (bond woman) is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother (free woman) of us all.
To get the point, BOTH are MOTHERS!
But.....one "is fallen" , and the other is NOT.
Galatians 4:21-31

Now, since "Mystery, Babylon the Great" is a mother who "is fallen", is there anything that happened to that "Jerusalem, which now is", that Jesus said would come to pass? Think around time of 70AD. Did "Jerusalem that now is" fall?

Remember, its a "mystery" about her! So its not going to be revealed to us by our own mind of logic, but rather by the Holy Spirit of God.

Btw, there are numerous scriptures in Rev. that support the evidence about "the holy city". As you are aware, there are two holy cities that are being spoken of there!

Those who are of the anointed, who were baptized with Holy Spirit, starting with Jesus Apostles and 1st century disciples, when they are resurrected, which will be at the 2nd presence/2nd coming of Jesus Christ, they will get a resurrection like Jesus, who when resurrected, was given immortality and inherited incorruption. When the Apostles and 1st century disciples who sleep in death until the 2nd presence/2nd coming of Jesus, when they are resurrected, they receive immortality and inherit incorruption like Jesus did. When they are resurrected at that moment, death is swallowed up in victory, death does not rule over them no more. However, at the time of Jesus 2nd presence/2nd coming there is a remnant who are alive on earth and of that number who will get a resurrection like Jesus on Earth. When they die at the very moment they die they are changed in a twinkling of an eye, receiving immortality and inheriting incorruption and caught up to be with the Lord Jesus. What I mean is at the time when each one dies he/she is caught up to be with Jesus it's when each one of them dies, death is swallowed up in victory and death doesn't rule over them no more.

 

[Earburner]

1. Those who are of the anointed, who were baptized with Holy Spirit, starting with Jesus Apostles and 1st century disciples, when they are resurrected, which will be at the 2nd presence/2nd coming of Jesus Christ,
they will get a resurrection like Jesus, who when resurrected, was given immortality and inherited incorruption.

2. When the Apostles and 1st century disciples who sleep in death until the 2nd presence/2nd coming of Jesus, when they are resurrected, they receive immortality and inherit incorruption like Jesus did. When they are resurrected at that moment, death is swallowed up in victory, death does not rule over them no more.

3. However, at the time of Jesus 2nd presence/2nd coming there is a remnant who are alive on earth and of that number who will get a resurrection like Jesus on Earth. When they die at the very moment they die they are changed in a twinkling of an eye, receiving immortality and inheriting incorruption and caught up to be with the Lord Jesus.

4. What I mean is at the time when each one dies he/she is caught up to be with Jesus it's when each one of them dies, death is swallowed up in victory and death doesn't rule over them no more.

So that I could better understand your presentation, I numbered what you have outlined, concerning the Lord's 2nd Glorious coming, in flaming fire.
I didn't see any scripture, so I am assuming that you are referencing:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:49-57
2 Peter 3:3-13.
Concerning the Day of the Lord's Glorious return from Heaven, in flaming fire, do you approve of those scriptures, that I listed above, as being what you are talking about?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The only scriptures I'll agree with on your list is: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1Corinthians 15:49-57. I'll not agree with using 2 Peter 3:3-13 because this post is about, "Death swallowed up in victory. When? I don't think this Scripture speaks that much about death being swallowed up in victory, when?

 

[Earburner]

The only scriptures I'll agree with on your list is: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1Corinthians 15:49-57. I'll not agree with using 2 Peter 3:3-13 because this post is about, "Death swallowed up in victory. When? I don't think this Scripture speaks that much about death being swallowed up in victory, when?

What don't you like about 2 Peter 3:13?
The Holy Spirit conveyed all of what He heard about the Lord's return, through different NT Saints, at different times.

To analytically segregate it, is the way of how OUR human mind works. But to take all the scriptures I listed, is to hear the whole message of the Lord by His Holy Spirit.

We should read that which is prophetic, in the same way that we read in synopsis, of what Mat., Mark, Luke and John wrote about Jesus, who is the Gospel.

 

[Earburner]

Did you know that 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
speaks on all the scriptures that I had listed, especially 2 Peter 3:3-13.
Pay close attention to the word "WHEN".
2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, AND to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Do you not know that in the Day of Christ's return, in flaming fire, the destruction of all the wicked (alive and dead), and the resurrection of every Saint (alive and dead),
is a simultaneous event?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

What don't you like about 2 Peter 3:13?
The Holy Spirit conveyed all of what He heard about the Lord's return, through different NT Saints, at different times.

To analytically segregate it, is the way of how OUR human mind works. But to take all the scriptures I listed, is to hear the whole message of the Lord by His Holy Spirit.

We should read that which is prophetic, in the same way that we read in synopsis, of what Mat., Mark, Luke and John wrote about Jesus, who is the Gospel.

You had 2 Peter 3: 1-13 on your list, not just 2 Peter 3:13 and 2 Peter 3:1-13 doesn't really touch on, "Death swallowed up in victory, when?" Which is what this post is discussing.

 

[Earburner]

Barney,
Now, if you do not know, and/or can't agree to that which is my sound scriptural presentation, of what will take place, "WHEN" Jesus returns in flaming fire, then I dare say that YOU, and many other religious denominations, are holding on to a foul eschatological doctrine, that has been fabricated and taught by the minds of men.
Though you have not yet spoke of it yet, I perceive that you are manipulating the scriptures, to get to that point.

 

[Earburner]

You had 2 Peter 3: 1-13 on your list, not just 2 Peter 3:13 and 2 Peter 3:1-13 doesn't really touch on, "Death swallowed up in victory, when?" Which is what this post is discussing.

There are only two things that I am discussing, and then one.
1. The Day of the Lord's physical and fiery return, which initiates:
2. Our bodily resurrection.
3. The destruction of all the wicked.
Where is not the victory over death?
The Saints shall die no more, and the wicked shall die no more!!
We shall be saved, and they shall be destroyed, hence- NO MORE DEATH!!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

There are only two things that I am discussing, and then one.
1. The Day of the Lord's physical and fiery return, which initiates:
2. Our bodily resurrection.
3. The destruction of all the wicked.
Where is not the victory over death?
The Saints shall die no more, and the wicked shall die no more!!
We shall be saved, and they shall be destroyed, hence- NO MORE DEATH!!

Yes, I understand what you're discussing, but this particular post is discussing Death swallowed up in victory, When? So that's what I'll discuss on this particular post.

 

[Earburner]

You had 2 Peter 3: 1-13 on your list, not just 2 Peter 3:13 and 2 Peter 3:1-13 doesn't really touch on, "Death swallowed up in victory, when?" Which is what this post is discussing.

Yeah, most likely a typo, which is typical of being in this corruptible body of flesh.