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Featured 'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by charity, May 28, 2020.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Behold, I shew you a mystery;
    We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
    for the trumpet shall sound,
    and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
    and we shall be changed.

    For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
    and this mortal must put on immortality.
    So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
    and this mortal shall have put on immortality,

    then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
    Death is swallowed up in victory.


    'O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
    The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
    But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Therefore, my beloved brethren,
    be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,
    forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.'

    (1 Corinthians 15:55)

    Hello there,

    I have begun a study on resurrection, and began with reading through 1 Corinthians 15, a wonderful chapter on that subject.

    The verses above show clearly that it is at the moment of our resurrection from the dead that death for us will be swallowed up in victory. Not at the moment of our death, but at our resurrection from the dead, which is yet to come.

    Do you have any comment.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  2. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Hello @charity

    Hope all is well with you.

    We know that Jesus conquered death , sin , and the grave. And we are in Him.
    Therefore spiritually we have also conquered death.

    Death no longer stings. when our body dies in this realm we just move from life to life.
    We step out of this old flesh like taking off our coat , and skip free into the next and greater life.
    His life is in us now...right now. Victory is NOW! I’m not waiting for ‘life’ to start....

    ....H
     
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  3. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Those who are dead to sin already in Christ will never die. Our body will, but our consciousness will go from this life to heaven to be with the Lord and will return with Him. There should be no fear in our physical death when you really grasp this.
     
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  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris,

    I understand this to be talking about the redemption of our bodies, which is when our mortal body becomes immortal, either by transformation or by resurrection, whether we be asleep in Christ, or remaining alive at the time.

    Death is the enemy of our mortal body, but not our living spirit, so when our mortal body becomes no longer subject to death, then shall be brought to pass the saying Death is swallowed up in victory, as mortal is clothed with immortality.

    Much love!
     
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  5. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Sin was the death of our spirit. Read it in context. It is about freedom from sin is our victory.
     
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  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Show the passage, and show what you mean.
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  8. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    The OP #1 "Death is swallowed up in victory WHEN we are born again.

    "The sting of death is sin."

    O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    Jesus took away our sin. 1 John 3:5
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    The sting of death is sin, yes, but that's not what the passage is talking about. You should take another look, and forget about everything except that passage.

    If you make it about something else you lose what's there.

    Again, then will the saying be fulfilled . . . When? According to this passage?

    Much love!
     
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  10. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
    and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
    then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
    Death is swallowed up in victory.'

    (1 Corinthians 15:54)

    Hi @Helen, @CharismaticLady & @marks

    Thank you for your comments.

    The question was, 'Death is swallowed up in victory' - When?

    Helen, you believe it to have happened when you were born from above, yes?
    CharismaticLady, you believe it happened when the Lord Jesus took your sin away, yes?
    marks, you believe it happens at the redemption of our Bodies, which is at the resurrection from the dead, yes?

    That means that you CharismaticLady and Helen, have already put on immortality, so you will never die: but does that not mean that you are essentially saying that the resurrection is past already? That the Lord will not have to return for you, for you are going to go to Him? How will you get there without the power of the resurrection?

    Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
    Chris
     
  11. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris ...fun thread :)

    To me the whole thing is hung on what or who we believe "you" is.

    I am not my body, "I" am what is living IN my body. The body is just the vehicle which gets me about while stuck in Time.

    So yes, the "I" which lives within is Spirit , therefore I have a life and in the next world, that life will no longer be caged but set free in all of His fulness.

    Death has been swallowed up in His life.

    I believe we move from glory to glory....therefore I do not believe is some future rapture of 'flying away' somewhere. We live, move and have our being in the Spirit...not in literal clouds. But, I digress...
     
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that being when we are caught up to be with Jesus, whether alive or dead at the time.

    Much love!

    PS . . . I sure appreciate that you reflect these things back. I can't tell you how many posts I read as I read through some of these lengthy threads with post after post that incorrectly restate their opponent's view, and the argue against that faulty restatement!

    :)
     
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  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Helen,

    Just a small thing . . . "caught up in clouds" may mean that we are caught up into the water vapor that hangs in the sky, or that clouds of us will rise to meet Jesus. I believe the wording interprets correctly either way.

    Much love!
     
  14. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Helen You're probably thinking about 1 Cor. 15, indeed...'swallowed up in victory'...
     
  15. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Helen as it depends on how one sees it. Also agree with what she mentioned of changed from glory to glory. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption...just a few things to consider. One) He said as you have borne the earthly image, you shall also bear the heavenly. Again, it would depend on is: bearing the image of the heavenly only after going in a casket. (IMO)That doesn’t seem to be the message but instead 2) put off the old man of corruption and put on the New Man Of incorruption.

    Another to possibly consider with your above quote is Isaiah 25:7-8 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. [8] He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

    Will destroy the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

    Is this not the vail which IS done away with in Christ. Consider He will destroy the face covering the mountains is not landscape but 2 Corinthians 3:14-18 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. [18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
     
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  16. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Hello Mark, long time no chat. :)

    For years I believed in the rapture because it was taught and I swallowed it...but after about 20 years I saw so many holes in it...so I threw it out 36 yrs ago.
    Yes there will be rapture , just as when a spouse or child has been away and returns the joy is rapturous ....and will be when we experience the face to face with our beloved.

    But the escape doctrine to save ourself from some tribulation , for me is pure fantasy and all about self.
    But, we are sidetracking Charity's thread. LOL

    Hugs...H
     
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  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 5:13-14 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. [14] Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

    And Christ shall give thee light? Future tense? or “awake thou that sleeps, arise from the dead!” ...Alive unto God?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  18. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I agree. There is a sence whereby this victory is already realized (Christ is resurrected). But that passage is in the contest of our resurrection in Christ.

    The life is here because Christ has gained victory and our hope is in His resurrection. But one day we will experience a fulfillment of what has been promised.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  19. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    @John Caldwell, @VictoryinJesus, @Helen, @marks, @farouk, @CharismaticLady

    ' ... and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
    and we shall be changed.
    For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
    and this mortal must put on immortality.
    So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
    and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
    then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
    Death is swallowed up in victory.'
    (1 Corinthians 15:53-54)

    Thank you all again for your comments.
    With love in Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  20. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    and @marks


    It is two stages, but if you only focus on the latter, you miss the condition for the latter. Death is swallowed up in victory BECAUSE Jesus took away our sin. THEN when our body dies and is resurrected, it will be changed and put on immortality. What is the problem with your statement and marks argument is you are only focusing on our body of flesh, rather than what Jesus came to do - take away our sin. That is what you highlighted. Don't you believe it has to do with sin?

    'O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
    The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
    But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    You may not believe that Jesus takes away our sin, and that we must be born again and partake of the divine nature that does not sin, but that is what your scripture is about. If the sin is not gone, then the resurrected body of the unsaved will take on the sting of death forever. It is only through the removal of sin is there VICTORY.

    Instead of VICTORY, the false doctrine that has been around for centuries is that we will always sin, and we will always be a sinner. That is Defeatism and doesn't even remotely resemble, VICTORY. Christians are not called sinners but children of God. 1 John 3:1 Maybe this is why the crucial message of the text was completely overlooked. It just isn't believed.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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