The Scriptures are God's Greatest Gift to Mankind

[Agios]

Strangely I never said I was.
You appear to be arguing from emotion and not scripture.
Try reading scripture and see what God has said about it.
On a thread that rejoices in scripture, try availing yourself of it.

You don't have to say it out right, it was the way you presented it. You state what God will do and what He won't do, His ways are far above ours.

What does scripture say? That God is merciful, He will bring those to Himself that are of the elect. God is capable regardless what man does, He does not need us, He is perfectly capable of saving His own.

 

[justbyfaith]

Psa 138:2, I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15, And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

[John Caldwell]

The issue is whether or not the message is greater than the topic of the message or the sender of the message.

Is Scripture a greater gift than God giving His own Son?
Is Scripture a greater gift than Christ laying down His life?

Scripture itself denies this heresy. Scripture claims that the greatest gift is love, that God is Love, that there is no love greater than laying down one's own life.

The problem is there are those who hold to a philosophy that not only denies Scripture but makes Scripture an icon.

It does not make sense to a Christian (Scripture of course is not the greatest gift God has given to mankind because Scripture ascribes this place to Christ). But it somehow makes since to the worshipers of icons. Gone are the days of Christian iconoclasts. What we have today are idolaters pretending to be Christians, swept away by vain philosophy and the superstitions of men.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Agios,

You don't have to say it out right, it was the way you presented it.

If I did not say it, do not say that I did. That would make you a dishonest poster who is committing a ninth commandment violation.
I have seen shameful persons do this very thing and lie, to cover their lies.You do not want to do that.

You state what God will do and what He won't do, His ways are far above ours.

Yes we can do that because God has told us what He will do.;
6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin,
and that will by no means clear the guilty;
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

What does scripture say?

I showed you what it says.

 

[justbyfaith]

(Scripture of course is not the greatest gift God has given to mankind because Scripture ascribes this place to Christ).

What scripture says this?

I believe that the holy scripture teaches that the holy scripture itself is a greater gift than God's name...the only name by which we can be saved!

Psa 138:2, I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What scripture says this?

I believe that the holy scripture teaches that the holy scripture itself is a greater gift than God's name...the only name by which we can be saved!

Psa 138:2, I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Some posters have no scripture...they just come to be negative and oppose the truth. This thread has nothing to do with Iconoclasts, or icons??? The poster cannot grasp the concept being discussed and tries to confuse the issue with nonsensical claims. Frustrated and confused ideas, that gain no traction, and everyone sees they are vain.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The scriptures tell us of all the promises as well as offering guidance and protection from the attacks of ungodly persons.

psalm119;
29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.

50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

51 The proud have had me greatly in derision: yet have I not declined from thy law.

52 I remembered thy judgments of old, O Lord; and have comforted myself.

53 Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.

114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.

115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.

117 Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe: and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Psa 138:2, I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15, And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

From CHS, Treasury of David;
For thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
The word of promise made to David was in his eyes more glorious than all else that he had seen of the Most High.
Revelation excels creation in the clearness, definiteness, and fulness of its teaching.

The name of the Lord in nature is not so easily read as in the Scriptures, which are a revelation in human language, specially adapted to the human mind, treating of human need, and of a Saviour who appeared in human nature to redeem humanity.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but the divine word will not pass away, and in this respect especially it has a preeminence over every other form of manifestation.

Moreover, the Lord lays all the rest of his name under tribute to his word: his wisdom, power, love, and all his other attributes combine to carry out his word. It is his word which creates, sustains, quickens, enlightens, and comforts.

As a word of command it is supreme; and in the person of the incarnate Word it is set above all the works of God's hands.

The sentence in the text is wonderfully full of meaning. We have collected a vast mass of literature upon it, but space will not allow us to put it all into our notes.
Let us adore the Lord who has spoken to us by his word, and by his Son; and in the presence of unbelievers let us both praise his holy name and extol his holy word.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

From A Baptist Cathechism with Commentary, by W.R.Downing;

Quest. 3: Who is the one great Object of our knowledge, worship and enjoyment?

31
Ans: The one great Object of our knowledge, worship and enjoyment is the triune, self–revealing God of Scripture.

Psa 29:2. Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

Psa. 73:25–26. 25Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. 26My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.

Psa. 96:9. O worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.

Prov. 1:7. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Prov. 9:10. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Jn. 17:3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Cor. 10:31. Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. See also:

Rom. 1:18–32; 11:33–36; Acts 17:27; Eph. 4:17–19.


COMMENTARY There are various approaches to the belief or disbelief in God. No belief– system is simply neutral; each carries with it necessary theological, moral and ethical implications. These implications have been and are seen throughout the history of mankind and in its various cultures and societies. Every religion, therefore, has a corresponding world–and–life view.

Theism is the belief in a god or gods. Atheism is the disbelief in God or gods. Atheism, as held by modern, secularized man, presupposes evolution, chance and fate.

Deism is the rationalistic idea that God is an absolute personal being and creator of the universe, but that he has neither revealed himself nor is involved in the events of nature, history or the human drama. Thus, man need not fear God or retribution.

Polytheism is the belief in many gods. Polytheism cannot bring all the Divine characteristics into one being.

Skepticism, denying Divine revelation, believes that reason cannot prove the existence of God.

Pantheism holds that God is identical with creation. It is the denial of the personality of God, and thus of any accountability to God. Panentheism provides a philosophical basis for open theism or Process Theology.

God is identified with the universe, but he is more than the universe. He is the eternal mind of which the universe is the body, as it were. Both God and the universe are in the process of expanding; the future is unknown. Religious Pluralism, characteristic of postmodern philosophy, is the idea that all religions have some good, and men may have a meaningful relationship with God through various religious paths.

These various views all lack a definitive, revealed source, a self–attesting Divine revelation—and thus a sufficient epistemological base [source of truth and knowledge

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

continued;
Biblical Christianity is not merely theistic, i.e., it does not simply believe in the existence of a God.

Biblical Christianity holds to Christian Theism, which necessarily means the triune, self–disclosing God who has revealed himself in creation, providence, history, his inscripturated Word and in the Lord Jesus Christ.


Only Christian Theism possesses the sufficient basis, as revealed religion, to provide a coherent system of truth, theology, creation, history, morality and ethics—an inclusive world–and–life view.

Christian Theism as a belief–system holds that the triune God has revealed himself, that he is the one Great Object of knowledge, and that having a right relationship to him through the Person and work of his Son leads to the highest meaning and fulfillment.
The triune, self–disclosing God of Scripture is the source of all true knowledge.

Man, as a created being, must find the source of truth and knowledge outside himself. Thus, man is by necessity a creature of faith. Although modern man would fain consider himself to be scientific and empirical in his epistemology [science of knowledge and truth–claims], he is necessarily brought to a principle of faith, and therefore a presuppositional stance for what he considers to be true and truth.
As the image–bearer of God, man must find meaning—truth and knowledge—in his Creator.


For man to truly know himself, he must, as the image–bearer of God, begin with God. God is the Creator, Sustainer and Governor of the created universe, and his laws reign in every sphere—spiritual, moral and physical (Rom. 11:36).


To know God is to possess true knowledge; to suppress the knowledge of God is to deny the possibility of truth, knowledge and reality.

To have a right relationship with God in the context of his Law–Word, i.e., to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ by faith, is to truly know him and thus to possess the only correct and consistent basis for truly understanding anything or all things. To have a right relationship to God through the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ is to find forgiveness, reconciliation, peace and communion—and thus communion with and enjoyment in God (Rom. 3:21– 26; 5:1–2; 1 Jn. 1:3–7).

For believers, the inscripturated Word of God constitutes our sole rule of both faith and practice. Under the sovereign Lordship of Jesus Christ (Matt. 28:18; Acts 2:36), this Word is to govern every sphere of life—the spiritual, religious, moral, ethical, social, political and physical realms.

Jesus Christ is the sovereign Lord of this universe and his Word is the believer’s law. The totalitarian claims of Christ Jesus as sovereign Lord must be believed, loved, joyfully obeyed, declared and defended in every sphere of human existence.

As The Lord God is Creator, Possessor and Sovereign Ruler of heaven and earth, as every fact is a created fact and as we are to do all for the glory of God, there is nothing which is secular; all is ultimately sacred. Thus, everything in our thinking, speaking and acting is ultimately a form of worship—or ought to be. Formal worship, either private or public, must reflect the character of God; it is to be holy, righteous, reverent, joyful and God–honoring i.e., worship must be theocentric [God–centered] and not anthropocentric [man–centered].

True worship is to be regulated by the Word of God, not the innovation of man. Worship and entertainment are mutually exclusive. Much of contemporary “worship” is neither worthy of the name nor glorifying to the God of Scripture.
True spirituality is essentially intellectual, as one must apprehend and come to terms with the inscripturated truth of God in order to comply with the gospel and consistently apply this truth to the life and experience.

There is no place for an irrational religion. An intelligent faith, which is grounded in Scripture, gives the proper and sufficient basis to feeling. Truth and the emotions are inherently related. The former is to serve as the basis for the latter or religion would become irrational and inconsistent.

 

[John Caldwell]

What scripture says this?

I believe that the holy scripture teaches that the holy scripture itself is a greater gift than God's name...the only name by which we can be saved!

Psa 138:2, I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Serious? Scripture tells us that the greatest gift is love, that God is love, that Christ is superior in all things.....

Defend for me the idea that Scripture is greater a gift than is Christ.

 

[historyb]

God did not give us a dead Son. He gave us a living Jesus... who lay down his life for us. That was the greatest gift, the Son and his self-sacrifice. A Bible cannot lay down its life for us because until it is quickened in a man by the Holy Spirit, it has no Life

Absolutely agree. We don't need a Bible to be saved we need Christ. Christians were saved for the first 400 years without a completely complied Bible because it was Christ not the Bible that coverts a heart.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

"historyb,

We don't need a Bible to be saved we need Christ.

God did not agree so he had 40 different men write the scriptures for us.
What is a Christ?
Why do we need a Christ?
What do you mean be saved?
saved from what?
Answer these questions without something we have learned from the scriptures.

Christians were saved for the first 400 years without a completely complied Bible because it was Christ not the Bible that coverts a heart.

[/QUOTE]

They had scripture, and many were also lost going by man made tradition that was contrary to scripture.

As The Lord God is Creator, Possessor and Sovereign Ruler of heaven and earth, as every fact is a created fact and as we are to do all for the glory of God, there is nothing which is secular; all is ultimately sacred. Thus, everything in our thinking, speaking and acting is ultimately a form of worship—or ought to be. Formal worship, either private or public, must reflect the character of God; it is to be holy, righteous, reverent, joyful and God–honoring i.e., worship must be theocentric [God–centered] and not anthropocentric [man–centered].

True worship is to be regulated by the Word of God, not the innovation of man. Worship and entertainment are mutually exclusive. Much of contemporary “worship” is neither worthy of the name nor glorifying to the God of Scripture.
True spirituality is essentially intellectual, as one must apprehend and come to terms with the inscripturated truth of God in order to comply with the gospel and consistently apply this truth to the life and experience.

There is no place for an irrational religion. An intelligent faith, which is grounded in Scripture, gives the proper and sufficient basis to feeling. Truth and the emotions are inherently related. The former is to serve as the basis for the latter or religion would become irrational and inconsistent.

 

[justbyfaith]

Serious? Scripture tells us that the greatest gift is love, that God is love, that Christ is superior in all things.....

Defend for me the idea that Scripture is greater a gift than is Christ.

Just as you say that PSA is not in the Bible, so I say that your understanding here is not in the Bible.

You have one of two options:

1) Admit that PSA is a valid (sound) doctrine even though you may not be able to find it in your Bible;

or,

2) Concede that your understanding on this subject is not a valid (sound) doctrine, since it cannot be substantiated by any singular verse.

 

[John Caldwell]

Just as you say that PSA is not in the Bible, so I say that your understanding here is not in the Bible.

You have one of two options:

1) Admit that PSA is a valid (sound) doctrine even though you may not be able to find it in your Bible;

or,

2) Concede that your understanding on this subject is not a valid (sound) doctrine, since it cannot be substantiated by any singular verse.

I told you before if you provide a verse stating God punished Jesus instead of us I would affirm PSA. That is the part I disagree with.

It does not have to be in a single verse, but it does have to be in the text.

You may not realize it, but the Bible actually says the greatest gift is love, that God is love, that Jesus is superior over all things.

What verse says Christ is a gift inferior to Scripture?

 

[mjrhealth]

God did not agree so he had 40 different men write the scriptures for us.

No actually we dont know the number and God never said that He told all those men to write the bible. God doesnt "need" the bible to save men, its men who need a bible because they dont want to hear from God. Bit like Adam and Eve running from God after they discovered their nakedness, or the israelits who where impatient to hear from God so made themselves and Idol. God never stopped talking mens stopped listening.

 

[justbyfaith]

What verse says Christ is a gift inferior to Scripture?

What verse says that Christ is a superior gift to holy scripture?

What verse says that PSA is an invalid doctrine?

It's men who need a bible because they don't want to hear from God.

I would say that men reject the Bible because they don't want to hear from God.

 

[justbyfaith]

I told you before if you provide a verse stating God punished Jesus instead of us I would affirm PSA. That is the part I disagree with.

It does not have to be in a single verse, but it does have to be in the text.

Since you don't accept the common meaning of the word propitiation, I don't have anything for you.

But if you would accept that propitiation means "appeasement of wrath or justice" I would offer as evidence those verses that include that word in their makeup.

 

[John Caldwell]

No actually we dont know the number and God never said that He told all those men to write the bible. God doesnt "need" the bible to save men, its men who need a bible because they dont want to hear from God. Bit like Adam and Eve running from God after they discovered their nakedness, or the israelits who where impatient to hear from God so made themselves and Idol. God never stopped talking mens stopped listening.

The problem is when some make a great thing (Scripture) an idol. Idolatry does not only concern evil things. Most often it is the opposite. It is giving something, anything, preeminence over Christ.

Colossians 1:15-20
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

 

[John Caldwell]

Since you don't accept the common meaning of the word propitiation, I don't have anything for you.

But if you would accept that propitiation means "appeasement of wrath or justice" I would offer as evidence those verses that include that word in their makeup.

I accept the meaning of propitiation. It is a sacrifice that appeasesor turns aside wrath. You need a dictionary. It does not mean "punishment". You are only generating smoke to hide your inability to provide what is not there.