What is "Amazing Grace"?

[Marymog]

What is "Amazing Grace"?

Why did this person write this incredible song?

Its because they completely understood: The Cross.

Its like this...

God completed the entire process of Salvation, for each of the born again.... by doing it Himself.
= God's Grace.

"God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be Faithful to Complete it".

What is that?
That is God starting Salvation on the Cross by Blood and Death, and then giving it to us as the "gift of Righteousness", when we BELIEVE.
"Faith is counted as Salvation, (Righteousness), as to be Righteous= is to be saved.

But it gets BETTER.
Its GETS AMAZING..

Christ then completes our FAITH....for us also.
Even this part, that we gave God, that He accepted, is finished by God.

"Jesus is the Author and FINISHER of "our" Faith". Hebrews 12:2
He does it, Himself.

Salvation is ALL OF GOD......from the Cross , to the giving of Righteousness, and finally Jesus even confirms and "authors" and "finishes" our FAITH.

THAT IS =AMAZING GRACE.
That is God doing it all, and we RECEIVE IT ALL, as a "GIFT".
"The GIfT of Salvation".

When a person is full of grace THAT is Amazing Grace!! (Luke 1:28)


Mary

 

[justbyfaith]

When a person is full of grace THAT is Amazing Grace!! (Luke 1:28)


Mary

It does not say there that Mary is full of grace. That is reserved for Jesus (John 1:14, John 1:17).

 

[Behold]

When a person is full of grace THAT is Amazing Grace!! (Luke 1:28)


Mary

Amen !

 

[BreadOfLife]

Now, a person can receive the Holy Spirit by being baptized (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39); but a man can also be sealed by the Holy Spirit because of simple faith.

Eph 1:13, In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

And the only cooperation that is required concerning a gift is that you receive it.

You’re cherry-picking again.

You pluck verses like Eph 1:13-14 to show that by simple “belief”, we receive the Holy Spirit.
Let’s examine what the Scriptural prescription for “belief” actually IS:- Being Baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

There’s that pesky cooperation with God’s grace again . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

Let’s examine what the Scriptural prescription for “belief” actually IS:- Being Baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

Which of these verses say that these things are an aspect of faith?

I would venture to say, none of them...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Which of these verses say that these things are an aspect of faith?
I would venture to say, none of them...

I'm not surprised that YOU don't see faith in any of those verses.
That's because you have a false understanding of what faith is.

You're still under the false, unbiblical, post 16th century idea that faith is just "belief".

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm not surprised that YOU don't see faith in any of those verses.
That's because you have a false understanding of what faith is.

You're still under the false, unbiblical, post 16th century idea that faith is just "belief".

No...I'm asking you to show forth how those things are included in faith according to those verses....since it is your contention that those verses say that those things are included in faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

You're still under the false, unbiblical, post 16th century idea that faith is just "belief".

It is certainly not unbiblical.

Quote and expound any verses that you can think of that show that faith is not belief.

In Ephesians 2:8-9, it becomes clear that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works.

If works is a part of faith, then a man being saved by faith would be saved also by works. But such a thing is an unbiblical statement (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Ephesians 2:9).

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Marymog]

It does not say there that Mary is full of grace. That is reserved for Jesus (John 1:14, John 1:17).

Hi justbyfaith,

Ugggg.....I don't know how to link the proper translation soooo the link it added did not convey what I meant. Here is the Douay-Rheims version:

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Berean version: And having come to her, he said, "Greetings, you favored with grace! The Lord is with you."

Aramaic version: The Angel entered her presence, and he said to her, “Peace to you, full of grace, our Lord is with you; you are blessed among women.”

We must then, go back to the original Greek texts:

[Luke 1:28] Kai eiselthon pros auten eipen, "Caire, kecharitomene!, ho Kurios meta sou."

The term used to Mary is "Kecharitomene" perfect passive participle of "charitoo" [charitoo (verb) comes from the same Greek root of “charis” - which means “grace” and charitoó means to fill or endow with grace] or in other words: "Hail, one who has always been full of grace"

No other character in the bible was called kecharitomene except for Mary. The Angel Gabriel is not speaking his own words, rather he is delivering God’s message to her.

Hope that clears things up....

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is certainly not unbiblical.

Quote and expound any verses that you can think of that show that faith is not belief.

In Ephesians 2:8-9, it becomes clear that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works.

If works is a part of faith, then a man being saved by faith would be saved also by works. But such a thing is an unbiblical statement (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Ephesians 2:9).

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I never said that faith was not belief.
Go back and READ my post. I said that faith is not JUST belief – and the context of Scripture supports this.

The verses YOU presented ONLY had to do with the “belief” part of faith but not the cooperation part. This is what happens when you cherry-pick verses of Scripture to make a point – it blows up in our face.

As for the other verses about the inefficacy of works that you cherry-picked – once again, you leave out the verses that show that the works a born again Christian does were PUT there by God. They are NOT “OUR” own works and are NOT what is being talked about in verses like Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:5-6 and Eph. 2:9. As for Eph. 2:9 – you always leave OUT the next verse (Eph. 2:10) because it destroys your entire point.

Like I said – cherry-picking Scripture only gets you into trouble . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No...I'm asking you to show forth how those things are included in faith according to those verses....since it is your contention that those verses say that those things are included in faith.

ONE more time – EVERY one of the verses I presented illustrate the obedience of faith that Paul describes in Rom. 1:5, rom 16:26 and that James talks about in James 2:14-26.
Faith is NOT just “belief”. As James reminds us – even the DEMONS believe (James 2:19) – so what good is mere belief??

The Scriptures tell us that the ONLY thing that matters is faith working through love (Gal. 5:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

No one is saying that there isn't an obedience that comes by faith.

We are saying that salvation itself is through faith alone and not of works.

Ephesians 2:10 is not going to contradict the previous two verses; which tell us that salvation is not of works.

So then, the works that we do that God has prepared for us to do, do not save us (Ephesians 2:9); but they stem out of a salvation that is already given.

Regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5 (kjv)) is going to have the effect of changing a man's heart so that he walks according to love.

But I want to say to you that apart from that regeneration, no amount of attempting to walk by love is going to produce that love in a person's heart. That love only comes in through faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

Again, if I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to produce a change in my heart so that I have actual love in my heart (salvation). I can indeed give to the poor from motives not of the love of Christ. I may want the acclaim. I may think that I am earning my position in heaven. But the only motivation that counts is love for the Lord over the fact that He has already redeemed you from a horrible fate (hell and the lake of fire). You are not going to deliver yourself from that fate by doing good works.

It is only by a simple faith in Jesus Christ and His shed blood that you can be redeemed (Mary's blood was not shed on a Cross for you). If a man is truly redeemed, he will most assuredly love the Lord. And that love will not be in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). It is also the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within a man (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

But this love comes in as the free gift of the Lord to a man's soul; through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (so, putting your faith in your works to save you is going to detract from faith in the One you must surely put your faith in to be saved).

God gives us the gift of righteousness (Romans 5:17) as a free gift (Romans 5:15-19, Romans 6:23).

Again, the faith that apprehends this righteousness does not have works included therein. But it does produce works as a separate result. And the works don't save you in the slightest (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Ephesians 2:8-9).

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[justbyfaith]

The verses in question (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Ephesians 2:8-9) speak clearly of the fact that we are not saved by works. And other verses in the Bible are not going to contradict what is said by them. Therefore you must take them at face value and interpret the verses that you have in mind through the lense of what they are saying to you.

As these are essential verses that speak of how we are saved; and it seems that the verses you have in mind are not verses that speak specifically on the subject of salvation as an issue.

Therefore, when understanding salvation, we must take our understanding from verses that speak on the subject of salvation.

 

[justbyfaith]

@BreadOfLife has been placed on my Ignore list; so further conversation with him will not be happening; which is not to say that he is necessarily right in anything that he might say after me in response to my previous posts to him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife has been placed on my Ignore list; so further conversation with him will not be happening; which is not to say that he is necessarily right in anything that he might say after me in response to my previous posts to him.

That's too bad - but I will continue to expose you whenever you choose to LIE about the Catholic Church instead of having charitable dialogue.

That's why I'm here - to set the record straight.

 

[justbyfaith]

(peeked in to find this) :

That's too bad - but I will continue to expose you whenever you choose to LIE about the Catholic Church instead of having charitable dialogue.

That's why I'm here - to set the record straight.

It is clear to everyone that you are the liar in this dispute...as well as the accuser of Jesus Christ Himself.

(for all of my sins are under the blood; and therefore Jesus took the penalty for anything that I did that was truly wrong. And therefore, if you want to continue to accuse me of guilt in this matter, you are pressing the issue so that Jesus' sufferings on the Cross will be greater if you succeed in your accusations).

I would suggest to you that when a man bears false witness against his neighbor in accusation of his neighbor, that the punishment for him, according to the Old Testament, is to be the same as what would have happened to his neighbor if his lies had been found to be of a truth and his neighbor found guilty of the accusations.

So then, God will mete out His justice in this situation; and I am very happy about this.

Isaiah 54:17 is God's promise to me...

 

[justbyfaith]

(took you off of ignore)

That's too bad - but I will continue to expose you whenever you choose to LIE about the Catholic Church instead of having charitable dialogue.

That's why I'm here - to set the record straight.

You seem to think that I am here to lie about the Catholic Church....when the reality is that I do not even make it my primary ministry to minister to Catholics.

If I did, you can be certain that I would make myself more informed and would be saying things that you think to be lies but are in all reality truths...and because of my focus, I would be able to prove that they are truths.

But because I do not make it my primary ministry to minister to Catholics, you can be certain that it is not my goal in being here that I should say anything for the most part that a Catholic might consider to be a lie about the Catholic Church.

I am certain of one thing....that the Catholic Church has lied to its adherents and that therefore certain truths, if they were to be proclaimed, would be considered to be lies by most Catholics...when in all reality they are statements of truth!

 

[BreadOfLife]

(took you off of ignore)
You seem to think that I am here to lie about the Catholic Church....when the reality is that I do not even make it my primary ministry to minister to Catholics.

If I did, you can be certain that I would make myself more informed and would be saying things that you think to be lies but are in all reality truths...and because of my focus, I would be able to prove that they are truths.

But because I do not make it my primary ministry to minister to Catholics, you can be certain that it is not my goal in being here that I should say anything for the most part that a Catholic might consider to be a lie about the Catholic Church.

I am certain of one thing....that the Catholic Church has lied to its adherents and that therefore certain truths, if they were to be proclaimed, would be considered to be lies by most Catholics...when in all reality they are statements of truth!

Wrong.

It's totally immaterial to me WHY your'e here on this forum. I couldn't care less.
But I will expose you at EVERY turn when you tell falsehoods about or misrepresent the Catholic Church.

Other than that - I don't care what you post . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

Wrong.

It's totally immaterial to me WHY your'e here on this forum. I couldn't care less.
But I will expose you at EVERY turn when you tell falsehoods about or misrepresent the Catholic Church.

Other than that - I don't care what you post . . .

You have an unhealthy focus on what I do, friend.

I am not here to lie about your denomination.