Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Joseph77]

Anyone can believe anything can believe anything can believe anything ...

 

[Joseph77]

I nor anyone else has said you are saved through water baptism. I have told you this before but it seems that it is falling on deaf ears.

(or eyes.... deaf eyes? hmmmm...... all the forums are mostly that )

 

[Joseph77]

The water baptism fanatics.

"Jesus: fanatic!"

Headline news in the first century !

Never-the-less, His permanent disciples said "we were crucified with Him"
and we will not deny Him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm familiar with your church's teaching that Mary represents the Ark. and therefore you are saved because you went through water and because you were in the Ark. You know what, I can prove to you through Scripture that there is no God but what is the purpose since I know there is a God?

Actually – you’re PARTIALLY correct.

Mary IS the Ark of the New Covenant – as Scripture teaches. However, the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that WE are “in the Ark” (Mary). Jesus was the ONLY one carried by that “Ark”.

Noah was saved through water because HE was in the Ark (Boat) – NOT the Ark of the Covenant.

TWO different “Arks” here – THREE, when you add the Ark of the New Covenant (Mary).

You can be baptized with water all day and every which way you like, even upside down and it will not bring you closer to salvation!

The Bible speaks of two baptisms, yet Ephesians 4:5 states there is only one. Which baptism saves?

To God Be The Glory

And that is PRECISELY what Jesus (John 3:5) and Peter (Acts 2:38-38) talked about.

The Catholic Church has NEVER taught that water has some sort of “magical” power to transform the soul. It is the MEANS by which we receive the Holy Spirit and forgiveness. Jesus prescribed that – and it is part of the cooperation with God’s grace that comprises true faith (James 2:14-26, Gal. 5-6, 1 Cor. 13:1-13).

Baptism is our response to God’s call.
WATER and SPIRIT . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Faith = belief, trust, reliance and "acts of obedience" which "follow" are "works" and we are saved through faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) Roman Catholics basically "infuse" works "into" faith (basically re-define faith to include works) and teach salvation by faith and works, then those works become meritorious towards receiving eternal life. Then you try and justify your works based false gospel by saying, "these are not our works, but God's works that He prepared for us to do and we can't take credit for doing them," which is just sugar coated double talk. - The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

We have already been over this before in another thread. Roman Catholics teach salvation by faith (their version of faith) and works. When I said, "salvation by works," the implication was salvation by works apart from any kind of faith whatsoever, but faith and works. So tell me, how many works must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Christ save you? Where do you draw the line in the sand? Christ draws the line in the sand in John 3:18.

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? The answer to that question will bring to light exactly what you are trusting in for salvation. Christ alone or Christ and works? The answer is already obvious to me.

Sooooo, your response to the Catholic position on faith and works is by posting an ANTI-Catholic explanation that perverts the teaching?? You’re starting the conversation from an extremely flawed position because you continue to misrepresent the Catholic position.

All of the verses you presented mention OUR works – things WE do that are FROM us. The works that are an essential part of faith are NOT our works. We simply cooperate with the works that GOD provided FOR us. It is as much a response to His calling as Baptism.

Finally - the answer to your question would be this:
“I cooperated with YOUR saving grace as YOU commanded.”
I would HATE to be in a position to say:
“I hid your treasure in a hole and waited for your return.”

I relied on HIS finished work – and ALL of the saving grace that comes FROM that finished work.

Matt. 25:34-40
Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers YOU DID IT TO ME.’

 

[Marymog]

Oh, I too and others like the born again believers, are the only ones that has been given to understand the meaning of salvation, for we have experienced it and have the "want to" to do the will of God!



And, there it is! The difference between the CC and born again believers!!! Jesus demands and clearly said and I quote: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" John 14:6

Did you hear that? NOT THE CHURCH!!!

To God Be The Glory

Hmmmmm.....interesting theory

 

[Marymog]

Why such language? Have I offended you or caused you harm in any way? No need for such sarcasm and Ad hominem. That does not at all refute what I said in my post. Defend and argue for what you believe if you must, but do so properly and politely and with kind words, and for the glory of God.

1 Corinthians 10:31
Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Tong
R0861

I was given spiritual discernment in my response .

 

[Marymog]

I never said that God is only allowing me to discern His infallible truth from Scripture in regards to salvation. All genuine believers are capable of discerning this truth in regards to how man is saved. The Church, the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) is made up of all genuine believers/born again Christians and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.

Which ONE of those genuine believers/born again Christians is the pillar and foundation of truth that we go to to fulfill Matthew 18:17?

 

[Joseph77]

Since no one OPPOSED to Jesus could ever be that ONE, it is clearly not the group in rome ,
as they are faithfully devoted to persecuting and always persecuted the ones who follow Jesus, and are not part of them.

 

[Joseph77]

"spiritual discernment " in responses is usually not God's Spirit but the other side.

 

[JunChosen]

You quoted what Mailmandan said ::"What saves people is repentance AND BAPTISM."

That statement is true. Repent means to turn to another direction and water baptism is the "like figure" that saves (1 Peter 3:21). You do know about "types and figures" correct?

For example, Moses is a type and figure of Jesus Christ, in that he led Ancient Israel to the Promised Land, just as Jesus as the Shepherd, is leading His people to heaven who are born in different times in history. There are many examples of this in Scripture. Shall I continue? I guess not. I believe you got the gist.

Scripture speaks of only one baptism that saves and that is the "washing of regeneration" found in Titus 3:5.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Mr C]

Think!!! You can be baptized every day of your life and still go to hell!!!

I agree.

That is if one has not been baptized correctly.

Without UNDERSTANDING correctly how to Confess, Repent and be Baptized it will accomplish nothing.

Understandest thou what thou readest? (Acts 8:30)

God still said the following.

(Mt. 28:18-20) (Mark 16:15,16) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ;16:30-34)

 

[user]

If you believe in the Lord, then you must obey the salvation plan. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). What happened to baptism? The salvation plan does not include water baptism. Water baptism "follows" believing in Christ unto salvation.

My response to you regarding John 3:18 was due to the fact that you gloried in that verse saying "Nope no water here" ... I proved you wrong by telling you to keep reading.

Now then, the salvation plan and water baptism...

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Here the Apostle connects WATER BAPTISM AND RECEIVING THE HOLY GHOST...

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

John the Baptists' baptism for the remission of sins was the precursor...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[user]

If you believe in the Lord, then you must obey the salvation plan. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). What happened to baptism? The salvation plan does not include water baptism. Water baptism "follows" believing in Christ unto salvation. (Acts 10:43-47)

Let's have a look at your Romans 1:16...

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The "Gospel Of Christ" is the Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension.

To "obey the salvation plan" we MUST OBEY...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them,

1. Death - Repent,
2. Burial - and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
3. Resurrection - and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Buried with him into his DEATH is to have remission of sins, with no remission you are not dead with Christ. Therefore you have NOT OBEYED the salvation plan and your "harmony of scripture" goes up in smoke.

 

[Mr C]

Let's have a look at your Romans 1:16...

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The "Gospel Of Christ" is the Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension.

To "obey the salvation plan" we MUST OBEY...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them,

1. Death - Repent,
2. Burial - and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
3. Resurrection - and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Buried with him into his DEATH is to have remission of sins, with no remission you are not dead with Christ. Therefore you have NOT OBEYED the salvation plan and your "harmony of scripture" goes up in smoke.

Amazing Post.

Truth Rules!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Since no one OPPOSED to Jesus could ever be that ONE, it is clearly not the group in rome ,
as they are faithfully devoted to persecuting and always persecuted the ones who follow Jesus, and are not part of them.

That WASN’T the question.

The question is WHICH one of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering PROTESTANT sects that ALL teach different doctrine yet ALL claim to be “led” by the Holy Spirit is the Pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15) that we must obey, per Matt. 18:15-18??

YOU claim that it’s NOT the Catholic Church.
Sooooooo, WHICH one is it??

 

[user]

I agree.
That is if one has not been baptized correctly.
Without UNDERSTANDING correctly how to Confess, Repent and be Baptized it will accomplish nothing.
Understandest thou what thou readest? (Acts 8:30)
God still said the following.
(Mt. 28:18-20) (Mark 16:15,16) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ;16:30-34)

Good post.

Most people quote the following verse and stop short...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But it is as you say, "Understandest thou what thou readest?"...

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Keep up the good work.
God Bless!

 

[Marymog]

Since no one OPPOSED to Jesus could ever be that ONE, it is clearly not the group in rome ,
as they are faithfully devoted to persecuting and always persecuted the ones who follow Jesus, and are not part of them.

Ok...so it’s not the group in Rome. Which group is it?

 

[JunChosen]

The question is WHICH one of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering PROTESTANT sects that ALL teach different doctrine yet ALL claim to be “led” by the Holy Spirit is the Pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15)

Marymoog, yourself, and the rest of CC have blasphemed and twisted the words of God concerning 1 Timothy 3:15 and many other verses.

Jesus declared in John 14:6 that He is the way, the truth, and the life... Scripture does not say the Catholic church is the ground and pillar of truth. You would like it to say that though!

First, take off the log/beam in your eyes before you speak against others.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Mr C]

Good post.

Most people quote the following verse and stop short...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But it is as you say, "Understandest thou what thou readest?"...

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Keep up the good work.
God Bless!

Let's look at this scripture backwards to learn about calling on the name of the Lord.

That is, since we have such a hard time understanding it forwards.



18. Listen to words.

17. Faith comes by hearing the word of God

16. Obey the gospel.

15. Preach the gospel.

14. Call on Him.

13. Call on the Lord and be saved.

12. There is no distinction between Jew and Greek.

11. Believe

10. Believe and confess with your mouth unto salvation.

9. Confess and believe God has raised Him from the dead.

8. Preach the word of faith.



Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 ¶ For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.