False "pentecostalism" Today.

[Shelli]

Acts 2:1-47 is the concise record of the Holy Spirit's actions within the Disciples of Jesus and associated followers in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost immediately following His ascension into Heaven in Acts 1:9-11.

The event is described with the following details from Scriptural text:

1.) They were commanded by Jesus to wait in Jerusalem for the promised baptism of the Holy Ghost. (1:2-5)
2.) They were in one place with one accord. (2:1)
3.) The sound of a mighty rushing wind from Heaven filling the house. (2:2)
4.) Visually seen tongues of fire resting upon each person in attendance. (2:3)
5.) They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in other known languages, each identified a Jew from every other nation on Earth staying in the city at that time. (2:4-11)
6.) They spoke of God's wonderful works in these languages. (2:11)
7.) A huge number of about 3000 people were brought into the fellowship in one day immediately after Peter preached a short sermon. (2:14-41)
8.) Many wonders and signs were done by Apostles. (2:43)
9.) They placed all of their personal possessions in common, and dispensed them according to need. (2:44-45)
10.) They ate and fellowshipped every day in the Temple and in their houses. (2:46)
11.) They had favor with all the local people, and the group grew rapidly and continually. (2:47)
12.) They had singleness of heart. (2:46)

Today, the people who call themselves "Pentecostal" do none of these things. If their self ascribed name is thusly false according to Scripture, then how false are their ideologies, promotions, and practices which distinguish them as so called "Pentecostals?" If a person says they are a "policeman" but has none of the skills of a policeman, does not have a police car, does not have a police badge, and does not have a police uniform, are they still a policeman just because they like to say they are one and feel good about it? If their friends say they are a policeman does it really matter?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Acts 2:1-47 is the concise record of the Holy Spirit's actions within the Disciples of Jesus and associated followers in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost immediately following His ascension into Heaven in Acts 1:9-11.

The event is described with the following details from Scriptural text:

1.) They were commanded by Jesus to wait in Jerusalem for the promised baptism of the Holy Ghost. (1:2-5)
2.) They were in one place with one accord. (2:1)
3.) The sound of a mighty rushing wind from Heaven filling the house. (2:2)
4.) Visually seen tongues of fire resting upon each person in attendance. (2:3)
5.) They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in other known languages, each identified a Jew from every other nation on Earth staying in the city at that time. (2:4-11)
6.) They spoke of God's wonderful works in these languages. (2:11)
7.) A huge number of about 3000 people were brought into the fellowship in one day immediately after Peter preached a short sermon. (2:14-41)
8.) Many wonders and signs were done by Apostles. (2:43)
9.) They placed all of their personal possessions in common, and dispensed them according to need. (2:44-45)
10.) They ate and fellowshipped every day in the Temple and in their houses. (2:46)
11.) They had favor with all the local people, and the group grew rapidly and continually. (2:47)
12.) They had singleness of heart. (2:46)

Today, the people who call themselves "Pentecostal" do none of these things. If their self ascribed name is thusly false according to Scripture, then how false are their ideologies, promotions, and practices which distinguish them as so called "Pentecostals?" If a person says they are a "policeman" but has none of the skills of a policeman, does not have a police car, does not have a police badge, and does not have a police uniform, are they still a policeman just because they like to say they are one and feel good about it? If their friends say they are a policeman does it really matter?

There may be some deluded Pentecostals who think they are perfect in this life. Hope you don't think you are, Shelli!

 

[TallMan]

. ..
Today, the people who call themselves "Pentecostal" do none of these things.

That is an over-generalisation.
Also some of the things were specific for recognising the transfer of God's presence from the Old to New Covenants (the wind and fire).
The meeting daily and physically sharing al;l things were administrations for that time when there was no welfare state and people were poor.
Look further into the new testament and you will see that these things are not mandatory.

What is, is the command to repent of other ways, be baptised and receive God's Spirit (evidenced by speaking in tongues).

 

[Christina]

There is no biblical evidence that the tongues of today have a thing to do with the miracle and natural human languages that were understood on Pentecost day .
Whether you believe in today's tongues or not its a lowly gift that will/has ceased. God says four times there is no sign for this generation.
And I see nothing wrong with Shelli pointing out a false believe ...I don't think that means she is trying to say she is perfect ...
If we know something is false and do not stand up and say it ..God says he spews you out ..He hates lukewarm ..
If you want to pray in private in today's tongues, that's between you and God
but when comes on a public web site and claims you are not saved unless you speak some unknown babble then he is fair game,
to be called out for teaching a false Hood He is leading Gods people astray, putting a condition on salvation God doesnt say .....
Anyone wanting to know the truth of whats said about Tongues can easily find it...... http://www.entrewave.com/view/reformedonline/Pentecost,%20part%205.htm
for those who want speak babble in church you are told not to
for those who want to claim its a condition of having the Holy Spirit its a lie an therefore a sin
for those who believe its a prayer language your choice

 

[Shelli]

That is an over-generalisation.
Also some of the things were specific for recognising the transfer of God's presence from the Old to New Covenants (the wind and fire).
The meeting daily and physically sharing al;l things were administrations for that time when there was no welfare state and people were poor.
Look further into the new testament and you will see that these things are not mandatory.

What is, is the command to repent of other ways, be baptised and receive God's Spirit (evidenced by speaking in tongues).

Nobody says that anything the early Church did was "mandatory," except for communion, baptism, oneness of Spirit, and love for each other. That is why presuming to call one's self "Pentecostal" is an error. Such self identified persons are claiming they do "Pentecostal" things when they actually do none of it.

Remember, expanding a discussion with unrelated comments does not disprove anything in an position. As well, having chatty little "reasons" and "explanations" about what either does or does not materially occur will not change the facts of what has and has not occurred.

There, for example, is no Scripture which says that speaking in unintelligible and unknown tongues is what happened to anyone in the Early Church. It is a mere assumption that they did, and a modern psychological mania which makes people pretend to do it today. In fact, many "Pentecostal" leaders claim to be able to "teach" people to speak in ecstatic tongues. But, they just learn to babble without edifying anyone. Such is not of God, and it thereby is humanly contrived.

Lol! Today's secular "welfare state" supplanted the need for Christians to closely care for each other? Lol! Is that an example of the eisegesis of Scripture? I think so.

If a person today calls themself a "physician" yet does not know human atanomy, pharmacology, hematology, embriology, neuroanatomy, microbiology, surgery methods, physical examination, or pathological diagnosis, and is not licensed to be a physician, is that person a liar? That is, if a person depends on their mere self ascribed label without performing any of the essential functions associated with that label is that label valid? You tell me.

 

[TallMan]

There, for example, is no Scripture which says that speaking in unintelligible and unknown tongues is what happened to anyone in the Early Church.

The tongues were unknown to the speahker, which is the whole point, to get beyond our limited understanding.

1Co:14:14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Peter was preaching to the gentiles in Acts 1`0 and they interrupted him by speaking in tongues - why?

Similarly with Paul in the middle of nowhere in Acts 19:1-6.

In fact, many "Pentecostal" leaders claim to be able to "teach" people to speak in ecstatic tongues.

They are in error, why don't you do the sensible thing and get to know what God says, ignore all these people, including your own ministers!

Lol! Today's secular "welfare state" supplanted the need for Christians to closely care for each other?

No, we still help our prothers & sisters at home and abroad where needed.

Lol! Is that an example of the eisegesis of Scripture? I think so.

What does your congregation do?

If a person today calls themself a "physician" yet does not know human atanomy, pharmacology, hematology, embriology, neuroanatomy, microbiology, surgery methods, physical examination, or pathological diagnosis, and is not licensed to be a physician, is that person a liar? That is, if a person depends on their mere self ascribed label without performing any of the essential functions associated with that label is that label valid? You tell me.

Obviously not, let's examine whether your church truly represents Jesus Christ .. . please tell us who you are with / website . . .

 

[Shelli]

The tongues were unknown to the speahker, which is the whole point, to get beyond our limited understanding.

1Co:14:14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Peter was preaching to the gentiles in Acts 1`0 and they interrupted him by speaking in tongues - why?

Similarly with Paul in the middle of nowhere in Acts 19:1-6.


They are in error, why don't you do the sensible thing and get to know what God says, ignore all these people, including your own ministers!



No, we still help our prothers & sisters at home and abroad where needed.



What does your congregation do?

Obviously not, let's examine whether your church truly represents Jesus Christ .. . please tell us who you are with / website . . .

The tongues not being known to the speaker was not "the whole point."

The whole point was that 3000 international foreigners in the city came into belief of the Gospel by means of unlearned Gallileans. Saying that the speakers' tongues not being known by them was "the whole point" shows how narcistic one particular segment of Christendom has become today. "It is all about my experience and how I see it!!"

Lol. Believe me, I do indeed ignore pulpit babblers who claim they can "teach" people to speak in tongues, because they represent all of "Pentecostalism." It is the "Pentecostal" churches who have them up there, and who never remonstrate them for their falsehoods.

"We still help our brothers and sisters at home and abroad where needed?" Lol. That is false. There are multitudes of needy brothers and sisters not being helped because "Pentecostals" only help when it is convenient.

If the pastor of any church I am attending starts showing eisegesis when he preaches, I leave the fellowship. Do you tolerate it for the sake of unity, perhaps ... ? Lol.

 

[jiggyfly]

Nobody says that anything the early Church did was "mandatory," except for communion, baptism, oneness of Spirit, and love for each other. That is why presuming to call one's self "Pentecostal" is an error. Such self identified persons are claiming they do "Pentecostal" things when they actually do none of it.

Remember, expanding a discussion with unrelated comments does not disprove anything in an position. As well, having chatty little "reasons" and "explanations" about what either does or does not materially occur will not change the facts of what has and has not occurred.

There, for example, is no Scripture which says that speaking in unintelligible and unknown tongues is what happened to anyone in the Early Church. It is a mere assumption that they did, and a modern psychological mania which makes people pretend to do it today. In fact, many "Pentecostal" leaders claim to be able to "teach" people to speak in ecstatic tongues. But, they just learn to babble without edifying anyone. Such is not of God, and it thereby is humanly contrived.

Lol! Today's secular "welfare state" supplanted the need for Christians to closely care for each other? Lol! Is that an example of the eisegesis of Scripture? I think so.

If a person today calls themself a "physician" yet does not know human atanomy, pharmacology, hematology, embriology, neuroanatomy, microbiology, surgery methods, physical examination, or pathological diagnosis, and is not licensed to be a physician, is that person a liar? That is, if a person depends on their mere self ascribed label without performing any of the essential functions associated with that label is that label valid? You tell me.

Equally there are also many that call themselves christians among the baptists, methodists, catholics and protestants yet have not had nothing more than a religious experience and never heard Christ's voice.

 

[Benoni]

So what is your point? “in my Fathers house are many mansions”; or Greek abiding place. All people have a different abiding place then you. Our place is not to condemn that abiding place but to seek, ask and knock to know God in a deeper abiding place that I am now. Yes there is false teachings out there, we all know in part, see in part. If Jesus was upset with anyone in his day it was not the sinners; it was the religious. Here we have a chance to reach out beyond where God has placed us and to speak of the deep things of God with fellow believers from hundreds, maybe thousands of other beliefs who in times past were limited by the little box know as their religion what ever that might be

Equally there are also many that call themselves christians among the baptists, methodists, catholics and protestants yet have not had nothing more than a religious experience and never heard Christ's voice.

EARNEST (NOUN)
arrabon ^728^, originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, <2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5>; in <Eph. 1:14>, particularly of their eternal inheritance.# In the Sept., <Gen. 38:17-18,20>.# In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring."

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Philippians 1:20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

 

[Shelli]

Equally there are also many that call themselves christians among the baptists, methodists, catholics and protestants yet have not had nothing more than a religious experience and never heard Christ's voice.

There is no Scripture which specifies that Believers are to literally hear Christ's voice.

"Pentecostals" have refined the art of psychological manipulation of its adherents to a grossly twisted level. I can list specifics any time for you in order to provide God's protection of your faith from their constant attempts to spread their ideologies. Such protection is more than just "resting on His Word" because that is what "Pentecostals" also do, yet they are deceived.

Are you kind of ... curious ... just a little ... ? Yes? No?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Equally there are also many that call themselves christians among the baptists, methodists, catholics and protestants yet have not had nothing more than a religious experience and never heard Christ's voice.

I'm sorry to keep asking you for further explanation but -

What do you mean people call themselves christian -but have only a "religious exp" ---but never heard Christ's voice?

If they call themselves christian -wouldn't their exp have somthing to do with Christ?
I'm not gettin' what your meaning.
A "religious experience " as you say - seems to be "less than" from reading your post.
No?
As if insignificant..
I'm just not understanding - please step in.

 

[jiggyfly]

There is no Scripture which specifies that Believers are to literally hear Christ's voice.

"Pentecostals" have refined the art of psychological manipulation of its adherents to a grossly twisted level. I can list specifics any time for you in order to provide God's protection of your faith from their constant attempts to spread their ideologies. Such protection is more than just "resting on His Word" because that is what "Pentecostals" also do, yet they are deceived.

Are you kind of ... curious ... just a little ... ? Yes? No?

Jhn 10:1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.


Jhn 10:2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.


Jhn 10:3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.


Jhn 10:4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.


Jhn 10:5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."

I'm sorry to keep asking you for further explanation but -

What do you mean people call themselves christian -but have only a "religious exp" ---but never heard Christ's voice?

If they call themselves christian -wouldn't their exp have somthing to do with Christ?
I'm not gettin' what your meaning.
A "religious experience " as you say - seems to be "less than" from reading your post.
No?
As if insignificant..
I'm just not understanding - please step in.

Getting ready to go away tonight and wont return till Sunday. I will reply and try to explain in more detail, Father permitting. Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Shelli]

Jhn 10:1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.


Jhn 10:2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.


Jhn 10:3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.


Jhn 10:4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.


Jhn 10:5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."

Have you forgotten to remember John 10:1-5 is an analogy, a figurative story?

If you think not, then tell me if you are a literal sheep, if you live in a literal sheepfold, if you ever go into a sheepfold by a sheep sized door, if Jesus has ever physically appeared to you to lead you somewhere, and if you literally run from all strangers. If not, do you actually think Jesus is talking about His literal voice? Do you comprehend context? Or, perhaps you like to violate context by using your feelings and intuition, as well as remembered words from false preachers, to supposedly "understand" this passage.

Lol.




Getting ready to go away tonight and wont return till Sunday. I will reply and try to explain in more detail, Father permitting. Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Benoni]

No I do not think so. Most people ignore the Christ and hear their religion, pastor or system. Hearing Christ is always singular not a plural.

I'm sorry to keep asking you for further explanation but -

What do you mean people call themselves christian -but have only a "religious exp" ---but never heard Christ's voice?

If they call themselves christian -wouldn't their exp have somthing to do with Christ?
I'm not gettin' what your meaning.
A "religious experience " as you say - seems to be "less than" from reading your post.
No?
As if insignificant..
I'm just not understanding - please step in.

 

[jiggyfly]

Have you forgotten to remember John 10:1-5 is an analogy, a figurative story?

If you think not, then tell me if you are a literal sheep, if you live in a literal sheepfold, if you ever go into a sheepfold by a sheep sized door, if Jesus has ever physically appeared to you to lead you somewhere, and if you literally run from all strangers. If not, do you actually think Jesus is talking about His literal voice? Do you comprehend context? Or, perhaps you like to violate context by using your feelings and intuition, as well as remembered words from false preachers, to supposedly "understand" this passage.

Lol.

So in your opinion what was Jesus trying to convey in this analogy?

Yes actually I do try to comprehend text and understand the audience in which it was directed towards. I also understand that many have difficulty living by the Spirit and resort to living by the letter. :blink:

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Have you forgotten to remember John 10:1-5 is an analogy, a figurative story?

If you think not, then tell me if you are a literal sheep, if you live in a literal sheepfold, if you ever go into a sheepfold by a sheep sized door, if Jesus has ever physically appeared to you to lead you somewhere, and if you literally run from all strangers. If not, do you actually think Jesus is talking about His literal voice? Do you comprehend context? Or, perhaps you like to violate context by using your feelings and intuition, as well as remembered words from false preachers, to supposedly "understand" this passage.

Lol.

So in your opinion what was Jesus trying to convey in this analogy?

Yes actually I do try to comprehend text and understand the audience in which it was directed towards. I also understand that many have difficulty living by the Spirit and resort to living by the letter. :blink:

I couldn't quite tell who was saying what because there were no quote boxes or even "" "" marks ---but I like what you said...I think it was you.

 

[IanLC]

I belong to a Holiness church.

One, we do not preach that speaking in tongues is mandatory for salvation!
Two, miracles and wonders are for the church today we have to have faith to beleive
Three, we do not beleive that we are perfect
Four, God does send interpreters of tongues
Five, we preach Jesu Christ died, resurrected and ascended
Six, souls are saved by Christ through our preaching of him
Seven, we here from Jesus Christ like any other beleiver
Eight, we stress salvation in Jesus Christ
Nine, We beleive you can have the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues
Ten, We love or should love all people

 

[Angelina]

I belong to a Holiness church.

One, we do not preach that speaking in tongues is mandatory for salvation!
Two, miracles and wonders are for the church today we have to have faith to beleive
Three, we do not beleive that we are perfect
Four, God does send interpreters of tongues
Five, we preach Jesu Christ died, resurrected and ascended
Six, souls are saved by Christ through our preaching of him
Seven, we here from Jesus Christ like any other beleiver
Eight, we stress salvation in Jesus Christ
Nine, We beleive you can have the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues
Ten, We love or should love all people

Amen!
Preach it brother...

 

[[email protected]]

Today, the people who call themselves "Pentecostal" do none of these things. If their self ascribed name is thusly false according to Scripture, then how false are their ideologies, promotions, and practices which distinguish them as so called "Pentecostals?" If a person says they are a "policeman" but has none of the skills of a policeman, does not have a police car, does not have a police badge, and does not have a police uniform, are they still a policeman just because they like to say they are one and feel good about it? If their friends say they are a policeman does it really matter?

This is nothing less that a rant against brothers and sisters who attend to the worship of Christ in a slightly different manner. Those who feel that too much emphasis is placed on the Holy Spirit may find that they've denied the ideology of the Holy Trinity by displacing His ministry in the lives of the believers.

Beware of spiritual pride.

That we are brethern in Christ is enough. If a Pentacostal chooses to worship in riotous song and dance, what concern of yours is that? Pray quietly if that seems good to you. There's nothing wrong with that either. Remove the log in your own eye before you pick at the sliver in another's.

Remember that there are legions of people out there who wish to strip ALL OF US of the pleasure, the right and the truth of assembly in Jesus' name. Let us be concerned with them rather than how a man chooses to worship in church.

 

[IanLC]

Apostolic, Holiness , Pentecostal & Charismatic Movements ​

“Acts 2:17-21”​

By: Ian Lamar Courts​

​

The Holiness movement is a sprout off of the Wesleyan Methodist theology. The movement was centralized around the doctrine of “salvation and sanctification”. Many of the founders and leaders of the holiness movement did not intend to start a new denomination of Christianity but wanted to bring revival to the church as a whole. But due to the scrutiny and isolation brought upon these revivalists by the established churches lead to the establishment of a new denomination in Christianity. One of the oldest holiness organizations is the United Holy Church of America Inc. which started by the preaching of the holiness doctrine by Rev. Isaac Cheshier in North Carolina (1886). Due to the fire and vigor of these preachers many people began to flock to this new denomination. Churches and assemblies of these “holy rollers” were established all over the southern United States. In the year of 1906 on Azusa Street, Los Angeles California another major revival began! This new revival birthed what is known today as Pentecostalism. William Seymour preached a new doctrine of ‘baptism of the Holy Ghost”! This revival brought about a modern outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Members experienced the gift of tongues, and faith healing. Many notable church organizations are the Church of God in Christ (COGIC) (1907), International Pentecostal Holiness Church (IPHC) (1911), Assemblies of God (1914), Pentecostal Church of God (1919), and the United Pentecostal Church (1914) among many other organizations. This new doctrine proposed a major issue toward the holiness denomination and the established denominations. Many holiness organizations accepted this new doctrine and incorporated it into their doctrine. The Pentecostal denomination is one of the biggest Christian denominations in the world today. The Apostolic movement began during the Welsh Revival and is a Oneness theological church. Many baptize in Jesus Christ’s name only. It was formally established in 1916. The Apostolic, Holiness and Pentecostal movements have brought a since of spiritual renewal for the church today. Today most of the harsh criticism from the other Christian denominations has subsided and many have experienced and accepted the theology of the Holiness, Apostolic and Pentecostal denominations. Today a new revival has come about called the Charismatic movement. It was started by a Lutheran minister Harald Bredesen in 1962. He stressed the use of charismata or gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many Charismatic Christians separate and distinguish themselves from main stream Pentecostalism due to the fact that many Charismatic Christians do not believe that speaking in tongues are the only evidence of the Holy Spirit. They also believe there is one baptism and that believers receive the Holy Spirit when they become saved. Charismatic Christians call themselves the Neo-Pentecostals. Charismatic Christians accept the Wesleyan holiness doctrine. Overall many of these great denominations have made huge contributions to the body of Christ, American Culture, and in the lives of the individuals who belong to these groups.



Organizations

• Church of Nazarene(1908)
• Fire Baptized Holiness Church (1895)
• Free Wesleyan Church (1885)
• Christ’s Sanctified Holy Church (1892)
• International Pentecostal Holiness Church (1911)
• United Holy Church of America (1886)
• Church of God in Christ (1907)
• Assemblies of God (1914)
• Pentecostal Church of God (1919)
• United Pentecostal Church (1914)
• Church of Christ (Holiness) (1896)
• Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith (COOLJC) (1919)

Among many others.