Grace vs Legalism

[marks]

You say: "But this passage doesn't come out and say that those who are God's children can become lost again. And if you interpret it as saying that, you run smack into those passages that tell us that doesn't happen."

Really? Read it again.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

All of these descriptions can be for those who experienced Jesus' ministry, the works the Holy Spirit empowered Him to do showing a taste of the Kingdom. To hear the Very Son of God preach the Word of His Father! Healed by Him, taught by Him, devils cast out, sending out the 70, each partakers of the Holy Spirit, each tasting those powers,

No, there's nothing here that specifically says these were born again, there are the Pharisees, whom Jesus warned, your sin may never be forgiven!

But again, the matter is settled in the text,

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Better things of you, and things that accompany salvation.

Either the fruitful herb grows or thorny brier grows. The writer says, I think you're the "salvation" plant.

Much love!

 

[marks]

nor the gifts of the Spirit - the powers of the age to come.

I'm not able to think of any Scriptures that teach us that spiritual gifts are powers from a future age, or that this expression means "gifts of the Spirit", in the way you mean. Could you point me to that?

;)

 

[CharismaticLady]

enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost

You don't have to see this as the unpardonable sin, so what is? And what would make that person unable to repent? God doesn't wish any to perish, so there is no unsaved person who can't come to Christ. But once enlightened and sanctified, if they turn to another god and reject Christ in whom they once believed, it is impossible to turn them back.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm not able to think of any Scriptures that teach us that spiritual gifts are powers from a future age, or that this expression means "gifts of the Spirit", in the way you mean. Could you point me to that?

;)

The only "powers" of signs and wonders that I know of are the Gifts of the Spirit, plus the things that happened in the New Testament that are not listed in a list, but were from God. Hebrews 6 is the only place that mentions powers of the age to come. What do you think that means?

 

[marks]

And what would make that person unable to repent?

God makes a person unable to repent. God does not let you "try" Jesus and go back to the Law.

Many in those days recieved all these things in Jesus' ministry, What about one of those 70? If they said that Jesus wasn't the real deal after all? Who is left to save them? The One they already denounced?

See Romans 1. See 2 Thessalonians 2. John 8, I think, "therefore they Could Not believe . . ." a terrible fate!

If you hold to what the text does and does not say, there is no conflict, only harmony.

And I am persuaded of better things concerning you, things that accompany salvation. Not these things.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The only "powers" of signs and wonders that I know of are the Gifts of the Spirit, plus the things that happened in the New Testament that are not listed in a list, but were from God. Hebrews 6 is the only place that mentions powers of the age to come. What do you think that means?

Exactly what it says.

That there is a coming age, and in this age will be powers, and that a taste was given of these powers.

"tasted . . . the powers of the age to come."

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

God makes a person unable to repent. God does not let you "try" Jesus and go back to the Law.

Many in those days recieved all these things in Jesus' ministry, What about one of those 70? If they said that Jesus wasn't the real deal after all? Who is left to save them? The One they already denounced?

See Romans 1. See 2 Thessalonians 2. John 8, I think, "therefore they Could Not believe . . ." a terrible fate!

If you hold to what the text does and does not say, there is no conflict, only harmony.

And I am persuaded of better things concerning you, things that accompany salvation. Not these things.

Much love!

Why are we not to pray for someone who has committed a sin unto death, and what is the sin unto death?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Exactly what it says.

That there is a coming age, and in this age will be powers, and that a taste was given of these powers.

"tasted . . . the powers of the age to come."

Much love!

That's what I said.

 

[marks]

Why are we not to pray for someone who has committed a sin unto death, and what is the sin unto death?

Don't you think we've each said what we have to say on that one? No thank you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's what I said.

Not the spiritual gifts. The signs and wonders. Not what you said. Powers in the Kingdom age. The age to come.

 

[marks]

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

 

[Behold]

You got Jews right, but the passage definitely indicates

Hint : they didn't have the spirit.
Notice that Paul is preaching the CROSS.
He's giving this group the Gospel.
HINT :

HINT : You dont preach the Gospel to the born again, as they are already saved.

"hint".

 

[Behold]

I don't deny indwelling sin.

If I am completely cleansed of indwelling sin, I would not know myself (Job 9:21)

Stop trying to replace New Testament Truth with Old Testament Verses.
Are you JOB?

So, the reason you know you dont have indwelling sin, is because there is no sin in Christ.
Are you "In Christ"?
Job wasn't.

 

[Behold]

I come against false teachers that lead the gullible into a false assurance.

"false assurance" is the belief that God's Blood can't keep you saved.

Yes i know all about your idea of self saving.
Charismatics can't stand the idea that God will keep them saved.
They hate this, and just as you are doing, you'll live on a forum to try to prove that God's Blood is not able to maintain a person's sanctification and Justification after God accepted their Faith.
So, you are the false.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Don't you think we've each said what we have to say on that one? No thank you.

Much love!

So you don't have an opinion?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Not the spiritual gifts. The signs and wonders. Not what you said. Powers in the Kingdom age. The age to come.

What is the "age to come"? The Millennium or heaven, or what?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Don't you think we've each said what we have to say on that one? No thank you.

Much love!

But I've changed my mind. That's what happens when you want to know what God means - He corrects our thinking. We grow.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes i know all about your idea of self saving.

As I've told you before, you assume things about what I believe that I don't believe.

 

[Behold]

What is the "age to come"? The Millennium or heaven, or what?

The age to come is not the "time of the gentiles".

Also another verse that strips spiritual gears in most believers is "endure to the end".
This verse is not talking about maintaining your salvation, by "working it out" which is how carnal legalist teach it. or as they teach... "if we endure to the end, we go to heaven"...

The NT has a lot of phrases that God put in there that define the times and the seasons, and a person has to study these out carefully, or they become a theological stumbling stone and finally a heresy in their understanding.

look at ..."age to come"..... as Jesus is talking about a certain type of blasphemy that we can't commit, but those religious people could and would not be forgive in the age to come.

so, if a person defines ages like this.......>the age before the time of the Gentiles. The age OF the time of the Gentiles. The age after the time of the gentiles.......Great Trib.

Then that wont work, as those are not "ages".

 

[marks]

But I've changed my mind. That's what happens when you want to know what God means - He corrects our thinking. We grow.

What then is your new thought?