Jesus isn't Catholic

[justbyfaith]

Your contentions are answered simply by the fact that certain believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) until the day of redemption. He, and His influence in their lives, is their motivation for continuing in the faith.

There are some believers who can fall away (Luke 8:13)...their faith was nominal, lukewarm, or shallow. These had no root in themselves; they were not sealed by the Spirit of the living God.

Other believers cannot fall away. Their faith is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14); a faith that endures unto everlasting life (John 6:47). Tell me please how everlasting life can ever come to an end, without losing its designation of everlasting (and it also would have never been everlasting, but temporal, if it ever came to an end).

Those who have the fear of the LORD (who heed the verses that you purport say a man can lose his salvation) will never depart from the LORD (Jeremiah 32:38-40 (kjv), Psalms 19:9 (kjv)).

And also, no one can snatch them out of God's hand (John 10:27-30).

They also, shall not come into condemnation; but have passed from death unto everlasting life; from the moment of first faith (John 5:24 (kjv))

And again, you are unable to answer what I have posted above...

To @BreadOfLife

 

[K9Buck]

...the NT tells you to "call no man on earth Father"?

Somehow I suspect I'm wasting my pearls but here it goes anyway.

So What Did Jesus Mean?
Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men” (Matt. 23:6–7). He was using hyperbole (exaggeration) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell” (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15).

Call No Man “Father”?

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is what you did, with each of the verses that you quoted.

Except you didn't show the complete context...you failed to quote contrasting verses...so you cherry-picked the verses that you wanted in order to substantiate your pov.

Next time, show how your verses don't contradict John 5:24 (kjv). That way we know that you aren't pitting scripture against scripture...in other words, cherry-picking.

Wrong.
They're NOT out of context an they don't "refute" other verses of Scripture.
Scripture CAN'T refute itself.

Besides - even with only TWO of those passages - you've STILL failed to get past the word "Epignosis" in Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 . . .

The Bible was indeed written in English...the Bible that I read every day is written in English...how then can the Bible not be written in English?

I think you should understand that the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek.
It may have been copied an printed in English - but it was written in those original languages,

Shame on you for not knowing that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pretty close to it.

You mean, "close enough" like "εκκλησια καθ ολης" = "Catholic Church"?

I believe that the man was Spirit-led to start the church...and in that sense it was in fact founded by Christ.

But it wasn't. It was founded by a flawed man named Phineas Bresee in 1894.

Christ's Church was founded by Christ, who is God.

 

[justbyfaith]

But it wasn't. It was founded by a flawed man named Phineas Bresee in 1894.

If he was able to convince the people that he preached to of the doctrine of entire sanctification (which is the primary doctrine that sets Nazarenes apart from other denominations), there must have been a certain holiness about his life, or else his words would have fallen on deaf ears; there would have been no power behind his message.

 

[justbyfaith]

Scripture CAN'T refute itself.

So, how is it then that you believe that your verses refute the plain meaning of what it says in John 5:24 (kjv)?

 

[justbyfaith]

Somehow I suspect I'm wasting my pearls but here it goes anyway.

So What Did Jesus Mean?
Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men” (Matt. 23:6–7). He was using hyperbole (exaggeration) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell” (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15).

Call No Man “Father”?

The scripture in particular says this:

Mat 23:9, And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I do not believe that this was hyperbole but is to be taken literally.

(while I am not going to trample over what you have said and neither am I going to rend you in pieces).

 

[K9Buck]

The scripture in particular says this:

Mat 23:9, And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I do not believe that this was hyperbole but is to be taken literally.

(while I am not going to trample over what you have said and neither am I going to rend you in pieces).

If the verse is to be taken literally, then what should we call our biological "fathers"?

 

[justbyfaith]

Besides - even with only TWO of those passages - you've STILL failed to get past the word "Epignosis" in Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 . . .

Obviously, the believer in Luke 8:13, who falls away, does so because he has no root in himself.

Would you say that he had epignosis?

If so, then there is a faith that is a step above epignosis, wherein the believer does have root in himself and his faith endures unto everlasting life (John 6:47).

If not, then he fell away because he did not have epignosis...

And those who do will not fall away.

 

[justbyfaith]

If the verse is to be taken literally, then what should we call our biological "fathers"?

"dad"

 

[justbyfaith]

I think you should understand that the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek.
It may have been copied an printed in English - but it was written in those original languages,

Shame on you for not knowing that . . .

semantics...

 

[K9Buck]

"dad"

Isn't that just another way of saying "father"?

 

[justbyfaith]

Isn't that just another way of saying "father"?

Okay...start calling your Catholic Priest "dad" instead of "father" and see how that levels out...

 

[K9Buck]

I do not believe that this was hyperbole but is to be taken literally.

Is this verse to be taken literally too?

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

 

[justbyfaith]

Is this verse to be taken literally too?

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

If it is to be taken literally, it provides you a pretty good reason not to blame your sin on your eye or hand; but to take responsibility for your actions.

 

[K9Buck]

If it is to be taken literally, it provides you a pretty good reason not to blame your sin on your eye or hand; but to take responsibility for your actions.

I'm considering throwing out my Xbox video game console because it diverts me from responsibilities.

Is it possible that the term that was used in days of Jesus for "father" had a different meaning or context than ours?

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm considering throwing out my Xbox video game console because it diverts me from responsibilities.

Is it possible that the term that was used in days of Jesus for "father" had a different meaning or context than ours?

I believe that there was a sense in which Jesus was prophesying about the misuse of authority in the Catholic Church.

Because God knows the end from the beginning; and the Lord dealt with something here that would surely be a problem in the future of when He spoke the words.

 

[K9Buck]

I believe that there was a sense in which Jesus was prophesying about the misuse of authority in the Catholic Church.

Because God knows the end from the beginning; and the Lord dealt with something here that would surely be a problem in the future of when He spoke the words.

Interesting point. You may be correct.

 

[Truther]

Yes! I too called in a few times over the years to his program. Remember when he was teaching on all the verses in the Word that make Christians shake in their boots? Not the actual title, lol...I had in boxed him about the "spewing the lukewarm Christians out of His mouth"...he said he liked the question and put it in his teaching. So, he taught about the cold water aqueducts turning lukewarm by the time it hit Laodicea...or some such.
I'd watch sermon after sermon of His for a very long time and always, always came away with something...and yes, he has an awesome teaching style. At this point now, I will catch his program now and then and sometimes watch his Sunday services as...I feel as though I have learned from him what God wanted me to. Hmm...now i will have to check out his sermon for today

I haven't seen that one but if you hear something unusual that I need to hear, feel free to link it to me. Thanks.(I am on his email list)

 

[Philip James]

I believe that there was a sense in which Jesus was prophesying about the misuse of authority in the Catholic Church.

And what of those who faithfully exercise authority in the Catholic Church?

Paul calls himself a father to the Church in Corinth, was he contradicting Jesus?

Does the misuse of authority nullify that authority? Who arbitrates?


Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.

For whenever anyone bears the pain of unjust suffering because of consciousness of God, that is a grace.

But what credit is there if you are patient when beaten for doing wrong? But if you are patient when you suffer for doing what is good, this is a grace before God.

Peace!