Jesus isn't Catholic

[justbyfaith]

2Pe 1:3, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4, Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Heb 11:33, Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

2Co 1:20, For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you have not shown that my verses are out of context. I can say that your verses are out of context; and that you have cherry-picked them.

What you need to do (at the very least) is to reconcile your verses with a singular verse that you have not yet been able to answer...John 5:24 (kjv).

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Here, let me expound again.

This is an absolute promise by Jesus as indicated by His words, Verily, verily, I say unto you.

The condition of the promise is that you hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him.

The promise is that you shall not come into condemnation but have passed from death unto having everlasting life.

If life is everlasting, it cannot come to an end. If it were to come to an end, then it was always temporal life and not everlasting life.

I believe, @BreadOfLife, that you are opposing yourself (Acts of the Apostles 18:6, 2 Timothy 2:25).

For you are missing out on a very good helmet for the day of battle (Ephesians 6:10-18, 1 Thessalonians 5:8).

I have done so.

Just tale some scissors and cut John 5:24, John 6:47, and John 10:27-30 out of your Bible.

The verses above are intended to produce the fear of the LORD in the believer in Christ. If any believer has the fear of the LORD, they shall not depart from the LORD (Jeremiah 32:38-40 (kjv), Psalms 19:9 (kjv)).

Also, no one can snatch them out of God's hand; they shall never perish; and they shall not come into condemnation; and they have passed from death unto eternal and everlasting life (if you would but read the passages that I have referenced above).

Your method of dealing with these verses is not honest. You discount them by calling them cherries that I have picked.

I have news for you: every cherry has a seed within it that, when planted, is capable of producing an entire tree.

And again, I can also say that you have cherry-picked your verses. This time I have three passages and you only have two, and therefore I have your passages outnumbered; and therefore you are the one who is cherry-picking.

While I do not discount your verses.

You also have not answered the fact that the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable, according to Romans 11:29 (nkjv); and that salvation, or eternal life, is the gift of God (Romans 6:23). How then is salvation even revocable?

Again - it's difficult trying to have discussions with you because you are so dishonest.
I ALREADY addressed yourse verses in post #121:

When you cherry-pick a verse of Scripture like John 5:24 and build an entire doctrine around it - you're in trouble.

John 6:47
Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

James 2:19 tells us explicitly that even the DEMONS believe in the truths about God but aren't saved.
Jesus also states in Matt. 7:21:
“NOT everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven."

Do these verses refute or "disprove" John 5:24 or John 6:47??
NO. they simply show that YOU are guilty of taking John 5:24 and John 6:47 out of context.

As for John 10:27-30, I've explained to you on numerous occasions that NOBODY said that we can be plucked out of His hand.
We CAN, however, walk away by our OWN doing - that THAT'S what the following verses warn against - so DEAL with them . . .

Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

 

[justbyfaith]

Heb 6:13, For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Heb 6:14, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
Heb 6:15, And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Heb 6:16, For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Heb 6:17, Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
Heb 6:18, That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Heb 6:19, Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20, Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You also have not answered the fact that the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable, according to Romans 11:29 (nkjv); and that salvation, or eternal life, is the gift of God (Romans 6:23). How then is salvation even revocable?

God doesn't "revoke" His gifts. He doesn't TAKE them away.
However - He also doesn't FORCE them on us. He allows us to CHOOSE whether we want them or not.

This is ONE of the lessons to be learned in the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-31) and the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30).

 

[justbyfaith]

Again - it's difficult trying to have discussions with you because you are so dishonest.

I was recently reading in the Message Bible and came across this in Romans 2:

"Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point the finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors. But God isn't so easily diverted. He sees through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you've done."

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

You have quoted the watered-down version; which has its contradiction with 2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 14:10-12, and 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

As for John 10:27-30, I've explained to you on numerous occasions that NOBODY said that we can be plucked out of His hand.
We CAN, however, walk away by our OWN doing - that THAT'S what the following verses warn against - so DEAL with them . . .

If someone has the fear of the LORD, they shall not walk away.

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

All of these verses are merely intended to produce the fear of the LORD in a man; which if a man has, he shall not depart from the LORD.

And also, no one can snatch him out of God's hand (John 10:27-30).

 

[justbyfaith]

God doesn't "revoke" His gifts. He doesn't TAKE them away.
However - He also doesn't FORCE them on us. He allows us to CHOOSE whether we want them or not.

This is ONE of the lessons to be learned in the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-31) and the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30).

Perfect. I choose to believe in and follow Christ for the rest of eternity. How then can I lose my salvation?

 

[marksman]

If you are of the ground that produces thirty, sixty, a hundredfold, you cannot lose your salvation.

Jhn 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

1) your fruit will remain. Will the branch not also remain?

2) if you ask of the Father in Jesus' Name that you might not lose your salvation, will not He answer in the affirmative?

I never mentioned the parable of the sower which has nothing at all to do with losing your salvation.

This is the verses you should be looking at....

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.

I didn't say this the Holy Spirit did so are you saying he is a liar?

 

[Behold]

And, as a dishonest anti-Catholic - you conveniently left out WHY there was a Levitical prohibition on consuming blood.
Do you remember WHY it was prohibited?? Allow me to educate you . . .

The prohibition was in place because the LIFE of the animal was contained in the blood (Lev. 17:11). THAT'S why, they were to completely drain the blood of the animal before consuming its flesh.

The ENTIRE point of the Eucharist is that there is ONE being whose life you DO WANT in you - and that is CHRIST.
This is precisely why Jesus told His disciples the following:

John 6:53-56
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, AND I IN HIM.

BINGO!

So, you feel its honest to create your own idea about why God does not want you to drink blood, so that you can hide the fact that you are, according to the cult of mary, actually drinking human blood every time you put that CUP to your mouth.
Well, i find your dishonesty to be nothing new for you.

Also, maybe you didn't notice this cultist, but when Jesus said to "drink His blood and eat His flesh" He was alive and had His blood inside Him.
So, that you can't understand "symbolic", is just one more issue with the cult of mary.

 

[Behold]

Of ALL of your impotent responses - this is the most asinine of all.

The "branches" of the vine that Jesus spoke of are US and HE is the Vine.
He stated plainly that that some branches that cease to be of any worth will be cut off and burned.

Listen, again, the cult of mary mindset cannot distinguish between a SYMBOLIC verse and a Literal verse.
The Catholic cult is created by liars who use symbolic verses to create a religious farce, that has you praying to plastic statues.
This inability of Catholic "theologians" to distinguish between allegory, symbolic and Literal, as found in a BIBLE = is why you have a Plastic Mary with a Crown as the Queen of Heaven, when in fact, Mary was a sinner just like everyone else who is born as a human OF a human father.

 

[Behold]

Since you appear to be intimidated by the task of addressing all NINE of the verses I challenged you with - at LEAST try to address just these TWO:Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Typically i dont address your (posted verses)= confused theology because im instructed that to respond to a fool and their follow, is folly.
So, what i do with you, is just teach.

Now Hebrews.
These are not "born again Christians"

So, there is your first mistake.
If you then read Acts 28, you'll see the same Paul, addressing the same unsaved JEWS, exactly the same way, and he tires of them, and leaves them.

So, Hebrews is not to be used to justify fallacy or deceit.
Try to stop if possible.

 

[Behold]

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
!

Is is possible for you to realize that God is Jesus?
They are the SAME.
So, when God said through the WORD who is Christ, the pre-incarnate, not to consume BLOOD, this is the same God as Jesus the man manifested, who is saying to eat blood.

So, do you understand that this can't be Literally the same idea, unless Jesus is talking SYMBOLICALLY?

So, to drink and eat human flesh and human blood, .....
Do, you understand what this means>'

So, when Christ was saying to EAT His Flesh and DRINK His blood, He was ALIVE.
His BLOOD was in HIS BODY.. Yet, He was telling them to drink it.
So, after He is dead, you can't then try to change the fact that when He said to drink His blood, He was ALIVE when He said this, and all His BLOOD was in His BODY.
So, do you see the apostles drinking the blood of Jesus, like a pack of Vampires?
C'mon fella, wake up.
Your cult has twisted a symbolic "eating and drinking" into cannibalism...

Jesus is ALIVE when He is telling those in the Upper Room to "drink" His Blood.
Do you not understand this?
So, He has to be speaking SYMBOLICALLY, and in fact that is why he says...to do this....="in remembrance" of Me.

So then....How to LITERALLY drink and eat, Jesus, as Jesus is defining this Symbolically?

That is explained logically and spiritually this way , Phillip.
WE understand that the result of drinking and eating Christ would be = To become BORN AGAIN.

So, how does that Happen????? It happens= "BY FAITH".
So, its by FAITH... this is the Literal way you become born again, = to EAT and DRINK Jesus, Spiritually.

Then "in remembrance" you take communion that REPRESENTS, symbolically the LIFE of Christ, body and blood= that was GIVEN as a Sacrifice on The Cross. =The Blood Atonement.

Listen....When Jesus said..>"this is my blood"... in the cup.....
It wasn't, Phillip.
Jesus's blood was literally STILL in His BODY when He said this...
Try to see it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I was recently reading in the Message Bible and came across this in Romans 2:

"Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point the finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors. But God isn't so easily diverted. He sees through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you've done."
You have quoted the watered-down version; which has its contradiction with 2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 14:10-12, and 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

If someone has the fear of the LORD, they shall not walk away.

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
All of these verses are merely intended to produce the fear of the LORD in a man; which if a man has, he shall not depart from the LORD.

And also, no one can snatch him out of God's hand (John 10:27-30).

You haven’t addressed the verses. Instead – you’ve lumped them all into one and discarded them.

Like ALL of the other anti-Catholics on this forum – you completely DODGED the Biblical idea of “Epignosis” that some of these verses describe. They describe the people they are writing to as having Epignosis – and are warning them that they can LOSE their security.

As I have repeatedly told you – Epignosis is defined as a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge that ONLY a truly born-again person has – and YOU have failed to address this.

Finally – as to those who have fear of the Lord NOT walking away from Him – you’re right.
However – that fear MUST be retained as the Word of God WARNS us . .

Matt. 5:13
“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has LOST its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is NO LONGER GOOD for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.

1 Tim 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

Heb. 2:1-3
Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall WE escape if WE neglect such a great salvation?

Heb. 3:6
but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end

Heb. 3:12-14
Take care brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart in falling away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold fast the beginning of OUR assurance firm until the end.

Heb. 4:1
Therefore let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you should seem to come short of it.

Heb. 4:11
Let US therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience.

Eph. 5:5-6
For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

 

[justbyfaith]

I never mentioned the parable of the sower which has nothing at all to do with losing your salvation.

It has everything to do with the subject.

One of the types of ground refers to the one who has faith and then later falls away because of temptation or trial; because they have no root in themselves.

This would indicate that the good ground refers to someone who does have root in themselves and therefore bears fruit unto everlasting life (Romans 6:22).

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.

I didn't say this the Holy Spirit did so are you saying he is a liar?

You have toe understand the entire context of Hebrews 6. For verses 9-20 teach us that we have Jesus as an anchor for the soul; and that having this anchor keeps us from falling away.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, you feel its honest to create your own idea about why God does not want you to drink blood, so that you can hide the fact that you are, according to the cult of mary, actually drinking human blood every time you put that CUP to your mouth.
Well, i find your dishonesty to be nothing new for you.

Also, maybe you didn't notice this cultist, but when Jesus said to "drink His blood and eat His flesh" He was alive and had His blood inside Him.
So, that you can't understand "symbolic", is just one more issue with the cult of mary.

THAT'S why he provied the SACRAMENTAL means for consuming His flesh and blood, Einstein.
The transformation of bread and wine at the Last Supper.

It's NOT that difficult, son . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

Finally – as to those who have fear of the Lord NOT walking away from Him – you’re right.
However – that fear MUST be retained as the Word of God WARNS us . .

It is retained by the Lord.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

It is the promise of the LORD that if you have His fear, you have it for ever.

 

[justbyfaith]

Like ALL of the other anti-Catholics on this forum

I have never been anti-Catholic...while I may indeed be anti-Catholicism.

You haven’t addressed the verses. Instead – you’ve lumped them all into one and discarded them.

The verses that I have brought up address every one of the verses that you have brought up and explained them so that there is no contradiction.

In your pov, there is a contradiction between the scriptures...for you cannot explain how it is that we shall not come into condemnation but have passed from death unto everlasting life.

Everlasting life, by nature, cannot be temporal. If it ever comes to an end, it was temporal life all along and was never everlasting.

As I have repeatedly told you – Epignosis is defined as a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge that ONLY a truly born-again person has – and YOU have failed to address this.

All I know is that in John 6:47, everlasting life is promised to those who believe on Jesus Christ. And everlasting life cannot come to an end. If it ever did come to an end, it was not everlasting in the first place. And we have it from the moment of first faith. You have also failed to address this argument, in all the times that I have brought it up.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Typically i dont address your (posted verses)= confused theology because im instructed that to respond to a fool and their follow, is folly.
So, what i do with you, is just teach.

Now Hebrews.
These are not "born again Christians"

So, there is your first mistake.
If you then read Acts 28, you'll see the same Paul, addressing the same unsaved JEWS, exactly the same way, and he tires of them, and leaves them.

So, Hebrews is not to be used to justify fallacy or deceit.
Try to stop if possible.

It’s pathetic that you fancy yourself a Bible scholar – yet in the depths of your ignorance, you failed to see that “Epignosis” is not used even ONCE in Acts 28. NOBODY here is being addressed like born-again believers in Heb. 10:26-27 who have an “Epignosis” of Christ.

I now see WHY you haven’t addressed the verses of Scripture that I have repeatedly posted which destroy your OSAS fallacy. Because you CAN’T . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

It’s pathetic that you fancy yourself a Bible scholar – yet in the depths of your ignorance, you failed to see that “Epignosis” is not used even ONCE in Acts 28. NOBODY here is being addressed like born-again believers in Heb. 10:26-27 who have an “Epignosis” of Christ.

I now see WHY you haven’t addressed the verses of Scripture that I have repeatedly posted which destroy your OSAS fallacy. Because you CAN’T . . .

Everlasting life is really only temporal if you don't keep yourself? So, it was never everlasting in the first place.

Thus John 6:47 is rendered moot...null and void.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is retained by the Lord.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

It is the promise of the LORD that if you have His fear, you have it for ever.

Absolutely – as long as we COOPERATE with His grace . . .

Matt. 5:13, 1 Tim 4:1, Heb. 2:1-3, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 4:1, Heb. 4:11, Eph. 5:5-6

 

[BreadOfLife]

Listen, again, the cult of mary mindset cannot distinguish between a SYMBOLIC verse and a Literal verse.
The Catholic cult is created by liars who use symbolic verses to create a religious farce, that has you praying to plastic statues.
This inability of Catholic "theologians" to distinguish between allegory, symbolic and Literal, as found in a BIBLE = is why you have a Plastic Mary with a Crown as the Queen of Heaven, when in fact, Mary was a sinner just like everyone else who is born as a human OF a human father.

Your understanding of Scripture is as limited and woefully-ignorant as your knowledge of history and languages.

And since your cowardice won’t allow you to address the Scriptural evidence I’ve presented that obliterates your man-made OSAS nonsense – how about a history question?

Since YOU said that the Catholic Church was “created by liars” – perhaps you can tell me WHO created it and WHEN . . .