Very big GAP in the trinity

[101G]

John 17:3
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

you are pitiful in knowledge and understanding, nor do you read. did you not notice the conjunction "and" Jesus Christ. now this, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." is that two persons? "God AND the Father", lol, lol, lol. here in James 1:27. see, you have no clue as to what you're saying. but never the less you need teaching. "eternal life"

Scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

EVERLASTING FATHER? Lets check the record, 1 Timothy 6:13 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;"
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Now the context is about the Lord Jesus, yes that son that was GIVEN in Isaiah 9:6, whom many say is the Son….. ok, question, if the Son is the “ONLY” person who have immortality”, where do that leave the so-called other two persons?

For only means: 1. and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively. And as an adj as used here, alone of its or their kind; single or solitary. meaning only ONE PERSON have everlasting LIFE, well that just shot down your John 17 misgivings......

Alone means: having no one else present… uh o that just eliminated any second and third persons. ... lol.

and immortality mean: the ability to live forever; eternal life. what YOU SAY... GET OUT of Here, you must be kidding. the Son of isaiah 9:6 is the ONLY one with ETERNAL LIFE. YES, READ THEM AND WEEP.

and as for the LIE all are All Creator, or All Raised Jesus, or All Eternal, we see that LIE is DEAD. when it comes to the Father, lets see how many is there? Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

and the FATHER is the ONE who have EVERLASTING LIFE, meaning he's the ONLY IMMORTAL ONE according to 1 Timothy 6:16 who is the Son. well that just took someone feet out of their own mouth again... lol.

oh slow of heart. How many way must we tell you that there is no two person called Father and Son... oh well let the dead bury the dead. just can't tell you nothing, can we.

again, another two birds killed with one stone. .

PICJAG.

 

[ChristisGod]

you are pitiful in knowledge and understanding, nor do you read. did you not notice the conjunction "and" Jesus Christ. now this, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." is that two persons? "God AND the Father", lol, lol, lol. here in James 1:27. see, you have no clue as to what you're saying. but never the less you need teaching. "eternal life"

Scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

EVERLASTING FATHER? Lets check the record, 1 Timothy 6:13 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;"
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Now the context is about the Lord Jesus, yes that son that was GIVEN in Isaiah 9:6, whom many say is the Son….. ok, question, if the Son is the “ONLY” person who have immortality”, where do that leave the so-called other two persons?

For only means: 1. and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively. And as an adj as used here, alone of its or their kind; single or solitary. meaning only ONE PERSON have everlasting LIFE, well that just shot down your John 17 misgivings......

Alone means: having no one else present… uh o that just eliminated any second and third persons. ... lol.

and immortality mean: the ability to live forever; eternal life. what YOU SAY... GET OUT of Here, you must be kidding. the Son of isaiah 9:6 is the ONLY one with ETERNAL LIFE. YES, READ THEM AND WEEP.

and as for the LIE all are All Creator, or All Raised Jesus, or All Eternal, we see that LIE is DEAD. when it comes to the Father, lets see how many is there? Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

and the FATHER is the ONE who have EVERLASTING LIFE, meaning he's the ONLY IMMORTAL ONE according to 1 Timothy 6:16 who is the Son. well that just took someone feet out of their own mouth again... lol.

oh slow of heart. How many way must we tell you that there is no two person called Father and Son... oh well let the dead bury the dead. just can't tell you nothing, can we.

again, another two birds killed with one stone. .

PICJAG.

Lets see you ACTUALLY exegete John 17:3 and quite running all over the place.

Can you do that ?

 

[101G]

Lets see you ACTUALLY exegete John 17:3 and quite running all over the place.

Can you do that ?

did you not read what I just posted, read post #121 again this time slowly.... but READ ALL OF THE POST.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

God did not become himself....

As a matter of fact He did (John 1:14).

 

[ChristisGod]

did you not read what I just posted, read post #121 again this time slowely.... but READ ALL OF THE POST.

PICJAG.

do you know what " exegesis " means ?

I'm talking about John 17:3. Can you do that ?

 

[101G]

do you know what " exegesis " means ?

I'm talking about John 17:3. Can you do that ?

I'm talking about post #121, Jesus is the Father, (Spirit), in in Flesh shared on EARTH. ONE PERSON, do I have to use crayons next? my God how hard is it for someone to understand?.

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

ad hominems are a sure way of showing defeat, thanks for the insults !

No ad hominems here.

1Sa 16:6 And it happened as they came in, that he saw Eliab, and said, Surely before YAHWEH is His Messiah.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

Psa 28:8 YAHWEH is their strength, and He is the fortress of Y'shua*, He is His Messiah.

Luk 2:11 For today is born to you in the city of David, the Savior, who is YAHWEH, the Messiah.

Act 2:36 Then assuredly, let all the house of Israel acknowledge that YAHWEH made known this same Yahshua whom you crucified, He is both YAHWEH and Messiah.

Act 10:36 The Word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching the good news of peace through Yahshua Messiah, He is Master YAHWEH of all.

Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Messiah according to flesh, He being YAHWEH over all, blessed forever. Amen.
.

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm talking about post #121, Jesus is the Fathe, (Spirit), in in Flesh shared on EARTH. ONE PERSON, do I have to use crayons next? my God how hard is it for someone to understand?.

PICJAG.

Your method is eisegesis whereas I'm asking you for EXEGESIS of John 17:3. Comprehende amigo ?

Exegesis Definition:
Exegesis essentially means using the words of the text in Scripture, through the lens of their original context, to determine their intent. In other words, if one analyzes Scripture exegetically, they won’t come to the text with any conclusions. They let the text itself reveal the what the writer is revealing to the reader. By doing this, we don’t read anything into Scripture that wasn’t there before, and we study the meaning of the passage that was intended for a specific audience.

Eisegesis Definition:
Eisegesis means reading into the text with a pre-conceived notion we may have. This can often mean coming to the Scripture with a biased cultural lens that didn’t exist during the time the Bible was written. Of course, theologians frown upon this approach because it isn’t rooted in Scripture. At its worst, it can be used to twist Scripture to assert a certain belief. Politicians or other leaders may take a Bible verse out of context and interpret it using their own biased perspective to justify implementing a policy.

 

[ChristisGod]

No ad hominems here.

1Sa 16:6 And it happened as they came in, that he saw Eliab, and said, Surely before YAHWEH is His Messiah.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

Psa 28:8 YAHWEH is their strength, and He is the fortress of Y'shua*, He is His Messiah.

Luk 2:11 For today is born to you in the city of David, the Savior, who is YAHWEH, the Messiah.

Act 2:36 Then assuredly, let all the house of Israel acknowledge that YAHWEH made known this same Yahshua whom you crucified, He is both YAHWEH and Messiah.

Act 10:36 The Word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching the good news of peace through Yahshua Messiah, He is Master YAHWEH of all.

Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Messiah according to flesh, He being YAHWEH over all, blessed forever. Amen.
.

Is the Father YAHWEH as well ? yes or no

Is the Holy Spirit YAHWEH as well ? yes or no

Thanks !

 

[justbyfaith]

@Christophany,

I would venture to say that one cannot understand John 17:3 accurately without using eisegesis to a certain extent.

For if you read it with only exegesis in mind, you might come to the conclusion that Jesus isn't the true God (and therefore, He would be a false god).

But if you read it using eisegesis, it may lead you to look into the original Greek renderings; and you will find that the word "and" in that verse is the Greek word "kai" which can be translated "even".

Thus, John 17:3 reads:

Jhn 17:3, And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, even Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

This is consistent with the rest of scripture; and eisegesis is valid if you are reading into the scripture what you know to be true from other scripture.

For in John 8:58, Jesus breaks normal grammatical usage to make a claim. He is referring back to Exodus 3:14. And the Pharisees understand His claim. They pick up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (John 8:59, John 10:31-33).

 

[Cooper]

Is the Father YAHWEH as well ? yes or no

Is the Holy Spirit YAHWEH as well ? yes or no

Thanks !

YES.

 

[101G]

Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts."
Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"

one must be off milk, can one teach a old dog new ... "Scripture?". well lets see.

1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

how clear can one Get. Who ONLY, ONLY, ONLY hath IMMORTALITY. now that should put an end to the discussion. one cannot argue from igorance.

so, lets clear the air. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
being is present tense when the statement was made, now root out the word "Form", and one will have their answer as to how JESUS, God, is one person.

PICJAG.

 

[YeshuaFan1]

The answer from the Trinitarians to the question why the Messiah, when he is God, has grown in wisdom and prayed, is: "Because he is man".
They say that God get a real human character through his incarnation; but they also say that God the Son was still God while he was man on earth. I repeat, they say that God the Son in heaven was still God while he was man on earth. First, this claim subliminally teaches a second separated person, this means that God the Son cannot be the Messiah and secondly, God the Son who was man on earth worshipped Himself.

The Second person of the Godhead was born as a sinless human, and in his humanity grew up as all of us do!

 

[justbyfaith]

The Second person of the Godhead was born as a sinless human, and in his humanity grew up as all of us do!

The 1st Person of the Godhead was born as a sinless human; thus becoming the 2nd Person of the Godhead.

 

[Taken]

see here

Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

I am familiar with Scriptures you posted.
I am also familiar that Scripture is Knowledge.
I have Expressed my understanding of the Scripture I posted.

I have no clue your understanding of the list of Scriptures you posted.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ChristisGod]

I am familiar with Scriptures you posted.
I am also familiar that Scripture is Knowledge.
I have Expressed my understanding of the Scripture I posted.

I have no clue your understanding of the list of Scriptures you posted.

Glory to God,
Taken

He pre-existed His physical birth as a man and has always been the Eternal Son.

 

[justbyfaith]

He pre-existed His physical birth as a man and has always been the Eternal Son.

If He was eternally begotten, and then descended to become a Man, consider that as the eternally begotten Son He dwells in eternity (Isaiah 57:15). As One who dwells in eternity He cannot cease to dwell in eternity, for that is the nature of eternity, that if anyone dwells there, they dwell there eternally. So when He descended He did not cease to dwell in eternity.

Now Jesus descended and then ascended to exist once again outside of time (Ephesians 4:10).

So, now that He has ascended, He exists next to His former Person.

So in eternity you would have a quadrinity: Father, Word, Son, and Holy Ghost.

By saying that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son, therefore, you have departed from the Trinity as a doctrine in favour of a quadrinity.

 

[justbyfaith]

I believe that the holy scriptures are clear in saying that Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Matthew 1:18-20, Luke 1:35).

 

[Truther]

adam is a figure of HIM who is to come (future) not past.

Right, the 1st Adam was made in the likeness of the last Adam....not a Divine Spirit.

 

[Truther]

As a matter of fact He did (John 1:14).

It says the word of God was MADE flesh, not the Spirit of God became flesh.(Flesh as in microscopic cell).