Shall we discuss this?

[kcnalp]

I've spent upwards of 20 minutes discussing this specific point with Jehovah's Witnesses, to absolutely no avail. They simply were not able to see it.

Much love!

JW's have a different Jesus than Christians.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You have a different Jesus than Christians.

I don't think that just because someone is different or believes differently that should be condemned or judged.

 

[kcnalp]

I don't think that just because someone is different or believes differently that should be condemned or judged.

There's ONLY one true Savior and it isn't Michael! Jesus is my Savior.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So, you preach everything the WatchTower teaches but you're not their puppet?

See how you didn't read my post. I said these are things written in the Bible, which is true.

 

[kcnalp]

See how you didn't read my post. I said these are things written in the Bible, which is true.

I read your post. How do you think I know you're being totally evasive?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

There's ONLY one true Savior and it isn't Michael! Jesus is my Savior.

What you believe is your business, doesn't mean I have to agree with you. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I should be condemned or judged.

 

[kcnalp]

What you believe is your business, doesn't mean I have to agree with you. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I should be condemned or judged.

JW's have been brainwashed by Kingdom Hall!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I read your post. How do you think I know you're being totally evasive?

Not evasive I simply choose to believe what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down, not the interpretations of imperfect men.

 

[kcnalp]

Not evasive I simply choose to believe what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down, not the interpretations of imperfect men.

You believe what Kindgom Hall tells you to believe. It's clear you won't answer my simple questions so I will drop it. Anyone can see how evasive you are by reading your posts.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

JW's have been brainwashed by Kingdom Hall!

People say that concerning anyone who disagrees with them. Such people who say things like that think they're infallible.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You believe what Kindgom Hall tells you to believe. It's clear you won't answer my simple questions so I will drop it. Anyone can see how evasive you are by reading your posts.

No I believe what the scriptures say such as at John 3:16- For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. Tinitarians deny this even though it's what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down.

 

[kcnalp]

No I believe what the scriptures say such as at John 3:16- For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. Tinitarians deny this even though it's what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down.

You say you believe the NWT that contradicts nearly every English Bible.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You say you believe the NWT that contradicts nearly every English Bible.

Actually it doesn't, but then I can see now you are one of those people who will say gravity doesn't exist even gravity existing is a fact. An unreasonable person.

 

[kcnalp]

Actually it doesn't, but then I can see now you are one of those people who will say gravity doesn't exist even gravity existing is a fact. An unreasonable person.

That's a flat out lie!
John 1 The Word was God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That's a flat out lie!
John 1 The Word was God.

Of course you are and that's on you. Nobody is forcing you to be like that, you choose to be like that.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Many parts of the One Body of Christ with Jesus as the Head, indeed! Things like this make me continue to wonder why people so often insist on a trinity when verses like this raise a question mark... or should we only go with the majority of believers? I have faith in God and always have from age 6, but why is embracing a trinity so important when the emphasis in scripture is on One?

Well when you take verses that can raise a question, as this one can, and then put them with the verses that leave no question Like John 1:1, John 5:18, Phil 2: 6, Is. 44:6., Gen. 1:1 and many many many others, one knows that Jesus is equally divine in His nature but not equal in position to God the Father!

And the emphasis is not oneness but the fact that Jesus is God and one with His Father.

Ph. 2: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

And the fact the bible clearly and absolutely declares there are three persons who alone are god makes it important for this issue.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've spent upwards of 20 minutes discussing this specific point with Jehovah's Witnesses, to absolutely no avail. They simply were not able to see it.

Much love!

The biggest issue we as believers should speak to Jehovahs witnesses is the physical resurrection of Jesus! If you haven't read Watchtower material, they are well indoctrinated into accepting Jesus is a god but not the God.

However as they accept jesus is the NT Lord (not the OT Lord which is Yahweh) we need to stress to them the fact that Jesus physically rose from teh dead!

Even the word resurrection requires a physical resurrection. REsurrection+ ana stasis- a standing up again! Somethign has to lie down in order to stand up again! This is essential for salvation. If they can trust in Jesus death and resurrection alone for their salvation- they will receive the Holy Spirit and be born again, have their mind renewed and then be able to see the falsehood of the Watchtower teaching calling Jesus Michael the Archangel.

For years I had a watchtower library even larger than many of the local kingdom halls. I was able to chronicle the litany of lies over the years right from their own materials from the so-called sole channel of communication from God to men.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Even with the New World version, there is a fatal flaw:

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was a god.

Every Jehovah's Witness I've talked to has agreed that this "word" is the same "word" that was made flesh, that is, Jesus.

If "the word", or Jesus, is "a god", you have one of a few choices.

Either Jesus is the as YHWH, the True God. Or, Jesus is not YHWH, and therefore is either a false god, or a second True God.

So according to the New World Translation, Jesus is either the True Creator God, or Jesus is a false god, or the Bible teaches polytheism.

Much love!

Actually the official teaching is that Jesus is the image of Yahweh so He can be called a god. Then they retranslate I and the Father are one, and Jesus is teh "image" of Yahweh! If one studies hard, they can use the NWT against the deceived followers and show them from Gods Even mistranslated Word the truth!

 

[amadeus]

Well when you take verses that can raise a question, as this one can, and then put them with the verses that leave no question Like John 1:1, John 5:18, Phil 2: 6, Is. 44:6., Gen. 1:1 and many many many others, one knows that Jesus is equally divine in His nature but not equal in position to God the Father!

And the emphasis is not oneness but the fact that Jesus is God and one with His Father.

Ph. 2: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

And the fact the bible clearly and absolutely declares there are three persons who alone are god makes it important for this issue.

I do disagree with you final sentence as it certainly is not clear to me. I have been reading my three Bibles [English, German & Spanish] daily along with talking to God for many years. Yes, God has shown me many new things during this time, but not much on this subject.

I rarely get into in depth discussions about the nature of God [Godhead?] any more as it is very often not edifying. I have done it many times in the past on this forum and other forums for 20 some years to no avail. I have heard all of the arguments that people provide to this side or for that side many times before. I have read all of those verses and others many times before. I have talked to God about it. Only God gives the increase, You believe in a Trinity, but I do not. If we are sincere and God wants us to change, He will change us.

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase" I Cor 3:5-7

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To put it bluntly I could care less what someone thinks of me and what I believe. Too many deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to this world of mankind that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that died for the world of mankind, that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God resurrected three days after his death.

What is “the likeness of his resurrection”? Well, how was Christ resurrected? In 1 Peter 3:18 we are told: “Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”

By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, God had humbled his Son, making him “a little lower than angels.” (Romans 8:3; Hebrews 2:7-9; Psalm 8:5) But God did not purpose for his only-begotten Son to remain a creature of flesh and blood forever, inferior to heavenly angels. God purposed to glorify him more highly than angels for his faithfulness to death in the flesh. So the perfect human body that God miraculously “prepared” for Jesus on earth was the body that Jesus offered to God once for all time in sacrifice. It was given for mankind to feed upon like bread; just as Jesus said: “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (Hebrews 10:1-10; John 6:51) So, after his being “put to death in the flesh,” Jesus, if he were to be raised to life again, had to be “made alive in the spirit,” as a heavenly spirit Son of God.

Like Jesus Christ, his spirit-begotten disciples must be “faithful even to death” in the flesh. (Revelation 2:10) For them to be united with him “in the likeness of his resurrection,” they also, like him, have to be “made alive in the spirit,” as spirit creatures. In 1 Corinthians 15:42-54, we read of their kind of resurrection:

“It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. As the one made of dust is, so those made of dust are also; and as the heavenly one is, so those who are heavenly are also. And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.

“However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up forever.’”

So do you believe you are one of Jesus spirit begotten disciples and thus part of the 144,000 of the Watchtower? If not you are not a spirit begotten one.

And if you had an inkling of knowledge of the Greek you would know this verse: In 1 Peter 3:18 we are told: “Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” made alive is by the Spirit, not in teh spirit.

Look upi the word resurrection! it is ana-stasis it means a standing up again ! Did Jesus die a spirit creature or a man? However He died if He resurrected that is how He resurrected!

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Why not believe Gods Inspired Word instead of a man made organization?

Luke 24:38-40
King James Version

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

The Watchtower Organization said jesus manufactured bodies as He needed them to show He was risen. where is this in Gods Word?

They said the body was given as a ransom, but it is the blood that was given for the payment for sin.

Leviticus 17:11
King James Version

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.


Jesus conquered death in His own body- that is why He is called the firstfruits of the Resurrection!