Shall we discuss this?
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to deny it was the Only Begotten Son that God sent to the world of mankind, that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human who willingly sacrificed his human life for the world of mankind. That it was the Only Begotten Son of God that The True God Jehovah resurrected to a powerful spiritual being who was given immortality and inherited incorruption. These are the truths that are in the scriptures that Trinitarians want me to deny, I'm not. They and everybody else can say, think or feel what they want about that.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
No these things are written down in Scripture. Trinitarians would rather I believe their Trinity Doctrine and not what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down. In other words when the scriptures show us that after Jesus Christ was resurrected he said that he had a Father and God who was also his Apostles Father and God.(John 20:17) Trinitarians want me to deny what Jesus said because it goes against their Trinity Doctrine.
You should stand on what you believe. That is between you and God. Someone might disagree with where you stand, but that someone when it comes down to it is not your judge! Discussion is one thing. Condemnation is quite another.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I agree, there is too many who want to condemn instead of disagree. I can understand someone disagreeing with me but not condemning me or judging me. I feel that those who condemn and judge think they are infallible and better. How can anyone reason with such people.
Give God the glory!
Some people believe they are in the best place [their particular denomination] and if we had always the mind of God, we might be able to judge that. Even the best ones described in the Bible did not always have the mind of God. Even if a person really knows himself as God does [How many are like that?] what does he know about another person's heart and mind with respect to God and the things of God. This is why we are not the judges of someone else's salvation. We are warn in scripture, but some people seem to believe that they above that because of the Holy Spirit in them. But... then among them there contentions about what that means [to have the Holy Spirit in them]
Take care my friend and may you walk always with God!
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God did not send a son to become man and become a son again, but God sent his word and his word became flesh and through this incarnation his word became a son for him. God has begotten a son with his mind.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Why don't you tell us what you really think????
Sorry but Jesus physcially rose from the dead in the Body He took to the grave! Despite the Watchtowers protestations to the opposite, the Bible is absolutely clear. Even the word resurrection requires a bodily resurrection unless you believe Jesus was a spirit creature when He died!
The deity of Christ is also without Question biblically! Despite the Watchtower deliberately altering John 1:1. YOu are stuck with a being that is called God and had divinity as His nature prior to coming to earth. But because the organization that has deceived you will not let you know th edifference in teh Hebrew words for one- you cannot understand!
John 20:17 and John 20:28 are both 100% true! The Father is above all!
Also you really stink at being a mind reader who thinks he can know what I believe.
Also Jesus is physically coming back to earth in the future! Despite the Watchtower until 1930 in Judge Rutherfords book "prophecy" kept declaring Jesus invisibly returned in 1874, before they swapped it to 1914! and then changing how many or how old people needed to be to see the events of 1914. He will come again and the whole world will see!
But despite how religious you may or may not be or how deep your practice your watchtower belief system started by Charles Taze Russel, the Scriptures say if you deny the physical second coming of Jesus, the truth is not in you and if you deny Jesus physically rose again from the dead- you are yet in your sin.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
They would seem to support that but they don't!
The oneness of verse 21 is the same oneness that happens to a man and woman at marriage, they become ONE flesh! Superficially it doesn't seem so but reality according to Almighty God declares it so!
As to the oness in verse 22- we are one body in christ! Not multiple bodies but all true followers of Christ are ONE body though they be many!
Many parts of the One Body of Christ with Jesus as the Head, indeed! Things like this make me continue to wonder why people so often insist on a trinity when verses like this raise a question mark... or should we only go with the majority of believers? I have faith in God and always have from age 6, but why is embracing a trinity so important when the emphasis in scripture is on One?
This is a great point!
My wife and I have been being knit together into one for many years, and it shows! Yes, we are one flesh, God said so, it is therefore true. And yet we are still two people, unmistakably!
Much love!
Even with the New World version, there is a fatal flaw:
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was a god.
Every Jehovah's Witness I've talked to has agreed that this "word" is the same "word" that was made flesh, that is, Jesus.
If "the word", or Jesus, is "a god", you have one of a few choices.
Either Jesus is the as YHWH, the True God. Or, Jesus is not YHWH, and therefore is either a false god, or a second True God.
So according to the New World Translation, Jesus is either the True Creator God, or Jesus is a false god, or the Bible teaches polytheism.
Much love!
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
When in heaven the Only Begotten Son existed as a spiritual being and was the Only Begotten Son of God while in heaven before he became human. When The Only Begotten Son of God became human he was still the Only Begotten Son of God. Only when he became human he was lower than the Angels. When The Only Begotten Son was resurrected from the dead by the True God after Jesus had sacrificed his human life for the world of mankind he was resurrected a powerful spiritual being who was given immortality and inherited incorruption yet he still was the Only Begotten Son of God.
It still seems bizarre that you JWs believe that an angel became a sperm cell to mate with Mary's egg.
It kinda seems a bit like a story out of the book of Enoch.
So, you preach everything the WatchTower teaches but you're not their puppet?
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
To put it bluntly I could care less what someone thinks of me and what I believe. Too many deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to this world of mankind that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that died for the world of mankind, that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God resurrected three days after his death.
What is “the likeness of his resurrection”? Well, how was Christ resurrected? In 1 Peter 3:18 we are told: “Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”
By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, God had humbled his Son, making him “a little lower than angels.” (Romans 8:3; Hebrews 2:7-9; Psalm 8:5) But God did not purpose for his only-begotten Son to remain a creature of flesh and blood forever, inferior to heavenly angels. God purposed to glorify him more highly than angels for his faithfulness to death in the flesh. So the perfect human body that God miraculously “prepared” for Jesus on earth was the body that Jesus offered to God once for all time in sacrifice. It was given for mankind to feed upon like bread; just as Jesus said: “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (Hebrews 10:1-10; John 6:51) So, after his being “put to death in the flesh,” Jesus, if he were to be raised to life again, had to be “made alive in the spirit,” as a heavenly spirit Son of God.
Like Jesus Christ, his spirit-begotten disciples must be “faithful even to death” in the flesh. (Revelation 2:10) For them to be united with him “in the likeness of his resurrection,” they also, like him, have to be “made alive in the spirit,” as spirit creatures. In 1 Corinthians 15:42-54, we read of their kind of resurrection:
“It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. As the one made of dust is, so those made of dust are also; and as the heavenly one is, so those who are heavenly are also. And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.
“However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up forever.’”
Exactly! I have said the same thing to JW's and they totally deny it, but it's the Truth!
I've spent upwards of 20 minutes discussing this specific point with Jehovah's Witnesses, to absolutely no avail. They simply were not able to see it.
Much love!
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