What is the 3rd temple?

[VictoryinJesus]

I trust that when the time comes, if you are still here for the coming tribulation, that you will have been better off for at least hearing about Christ's and His Apostle's warnings against deception for the end by a 'spurious Messiah' in Jerusalem.

When you see it come to pass, then you likely won't have the doubts you may have now, unless you allow yourself to be deceived with getting wrapped up in the excitement others may have in that time with their thinking that spurious Messiah is our Lord Jesus.

One of the ways we can tell a doctrine of man about the end is their disregarding Christ's Olivet discourse about the end of this world (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21).
1. Futurists, Pre-tribulationalists wrongly teach that Christ's Olivet discourse was meant for Jews, what they call tribulation saints who go through the tribulation.
2. Preterists and Historicists try to move the time of Christ's Olivet discourse back in history to 70 A.D., just because Jesus mentioned how there wouldn't be one stone atop another there.

The reality is that our Lord Jesus was giving His Church 7 main Signs of the end of this world leading up to His 2nd coming. That's why the last Sign He gave in His Olivet discourse is about the event of His 2nd coming and gathering of His faithful Church. Those same 7 Signs are the 7 Seals of Revelation 6.

kind of off topic but then maybe not. Thought I would get out an concordance last night and try to figure out how to use it and realized real quick why I don’t. It is confusing. I have a few questions concerning 3089. Mostly interested in ‘dissolve’, regarding the Temple of God, knowing if this earthly tabernacle is dissolved ...

3089 to loose, untie, release, to dissolve , break up, destroy, set at naught, annul.
Does that mean that is the meaning every time 3089 comes up?

2 Peter 3:11 Lexicon: Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

λυομένων (lyomenōn) 3089, since these things are [being dissolved]to be destroyed

*****
2 Peter 3:12 Lexicon: looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

λυθήσονται (luthēsontai) 3089 heavens on fire [will be dissolved]

*****
but then ‘dissolve’ changes to 4127 in Job although it means (u·te·mo·ge·ge·ni) 4127: to melt ...why? When ‘fire [will be dissolved]’ and ‘melt with fervent heat’ ‘to melt’: why are they not the same dissolve?
Job 30:22 Lexicon: "You lift me up to the wind and cause me to ride; And You dissolve me in a storm.

*****

2 Corinthians 5:1 Lexicon: For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

καταλυθῇ (kataluthē) then dissolve changes to 2647 in ‘tabernacle’ dissolved...again why?

3089 is used so many times. For instance in John 2:19 Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. The ‘destroy’ there is the same (Strongs) number. 3089: to loose, release, dissolve, untie, unleash, unbind, break up, destroy, annul, to set at naught ...

Proverbs 1:25, Mark 9:12, Luke 23:11,Acts 4:11, Romans 14:10 ...what was set at nought?

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Proverbs 1:25, Mark 9:12, Luke 23:11, Acts: 4:11, Romans 14:10 ...what was set at nought?

... that which is REPLACED:

1 Cor. 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.​

Bobby Jo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

... that which is REPLACED:

1 Cor. 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.​

Bobby Jo

don’t disagree only hesitate at ‘so glorify God in your body’ as does that mean in the flesh or in Spirit? Has all things which belong to Christ become ‘your body’. Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

 

[Bobby Jo]

... at ‘so glorify God in your body’ as does that mean in the flesh or in Spirit? ...

... I believe it says "body", which probably means to live your life just as Jesus lived his life free from any "stain" while on earth ...

Bobby Jo

 

[Waiting on him]

Well, the spiritual temple doesn't apply in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, period. It's insane to try and slap a spiritual temple connotation on the "man of sin" coming to sit in the "temple of God" to mean over Christ and His Church. And that is the very point Apostle Paul is making there, that a false one is coming to play God in that temple in Jerusalem, which has to be a physical stone temple.

So who was sitting in your temple prior to belief?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

... I believe it says "body", which probably means to live your life just as Jesus lived his life free from any "stain" while on earth ...

Bobby Jo

‘So glorify God in your body.‘ becomes confusing in Matthew 5:29-30 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. [30] And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[Bobby Jo]

‘So glorify God in your body.‘ becomes confusing in Matthew 5:29-30 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. [30] And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

I'd like to parse what "hell" is, and whether a "plucked eye" goes there to save the rest of the "body" -- or not.

Bobby Jo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'd like to parse what "hell" is, and whether a "plucked eye" goes there to save the rest of the "body" -- or not.

Bobby Jo

it is a good question (if was a question, maybe a point?) which I have no idea other than to consider Zechariah 3:1-2 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. [2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

and oddly Zechariah 11:15-17 And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. [16] For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. [17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

 

[Trekson]

I don't see why people struggle w/ this issue. The third temple is the one the a/c will violate w/ the abomination of desolation. It will be destroyed in that big earthquake. The fourth temple will be the millennial temple and it will be where Jesus abides. The Son of Man has to live somewhere...right!

 

[Josho]

I would have to find Kelly Varner's book, I think he wrote a whole commentary book about Ezekiel, and he made some comparisons between Jesus and the 3rd Temple.

I believe the 3rd temple is symbolic.

 

[liafailrock]

If so, then why hasn't it? Did GOD provide HIS SON in place of burnt offerings only to re-introduce BURNT OFFERINGS? Is HE Double Minded/Indecisive/Confused/Disoriented? If so, then maybe he should run on the Democratic Ticket!

Bobby Jo

The Son of God is adequate for sins. But the Jews don't know that. There still can be a physical temple coexisting at the same time. And the Lord can use this indeed for His throne and to fulfill the meanings in the Law to teach them (and I believe he will rebuilt and/or renovate the temple yet again in Jerusalem while this one is the precursor). As for why it hasn't been rebuilt, they are ready. They are just waiting the proper political atmosphere to allow it. They can start tomorrow if allowed -- they even have the red heifer.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... There still can be a physical temple coexisting at the same time. ...

It may possible for man to build his own tower to heaven, but I think GOD would DESTROY IT before being completed.

And so we see various individuals creating "Corner Stones"; asserting a "Red Heifer"; and even preforming "Architectural Studies"; -- all to no avail.

Bobby Jo

 

[liafailrock]

It may possible for man to build his own tower to heaven, but I think GOD would DESTROY IT before being completed.

And so we see various individuals creating "Corner Stones"; asserting a "Red Heifer"; and even preforming "Architectural Studies"; -- all to no avail.

Bobby Jo

Be careful what you think God might do. Neither you nor I are God. We have to go by Scripture, and an end time temple is mentioned by Paul and in Revelation (and for that matter Ezekiel and Zechariah). I don't otherwise personally care what they get out of it. I just know it's prophesied. When one sees these things, we know the end is near. Deny it and the storm will take you by surprise.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... an end time temple is mentioned by Paul and in Revelation (and for that matter Ezekiel and Zechariah) ...

... and don't forget Daniel. And because we can interpret the prophecies of Daniel (because we're in the Time Of The End), we can discover that the "temple" in Daniel is simply the Neve Shalom in Istanbul, Turkey. -- And I'd be MORE than happy to provide the basis for that assertion!

To know Scripture requires KNOWING Scripture.
Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

..the "temple" in Daniel is simply the Neve Shalom in Istanbul, Turkey. -- And I'd be MORE than happy to provide the basis for that assertion!

No need. Istanbul is NOT Jerusalem, so you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[quietthinker]

Is it the body of Christ?

The 3rd temple site is a private construct, not the official position of Israel contrary to what many believe.

 

[liafailrock]

... and don't forget Daniel. And because we can interpret the prophecies of Daniel (because we're in the Time Of The End), we can discover that the "temple" in Daniel is simply the Neve Shalom in Istanbul, Turkey. -- And I'd be MORE than happy to provide the basis for that assertion!

To know Scripture requires KNOWING Scripture.
Bobby Jo

Yes, please do. All Jewish and Christian theologians seem to be under the impression that Daniel is talking about the one in Jerusalem, including Sir Isaac Newton. After all, Daniel faced Jerusalem to pray although the bible is not specific what the Azimuth is. Where I live (near Philadelphia Pa), the direction to Jerusalem where I pray is approximately Northeast so we know that is really Jerusalem I am praying toward.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Yes, please do. All Jewish and Christian theologians seem to be under the impression that Daniel is talking about [Jesus] ...

Have you ever considered why there are Pre-, Mid-, and Post- Tribulation doctrines? -- It's because NONE OF THIS WORK. The Rapture is AFTER the dead are raised, at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. Otherwise, what happens to the "Tribulation-era-rapture-church"? Rev. 20 4-6 says it's not with Jesus when he returns ...

And so too, NONE of the Dan. purported fulfilllments work, starting with Daniel 9 because it's the easiest to debunk:

“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”[1]

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

The Math DOES NOT WORK OUT:

“...the Book of Daniel, where a period of seventy weeks of years, i.e. 490 years, is given as separating the epoch of Nebuchadnezzar from that of the Messiah. As it happens, if to this figure of 390 years [Damascus Document] is added, firstly twenty (during which the ancestors of the Community ‘groped’ for their way until the entry on the scene of the Teacher of Righteousness), then another forty (the time span between the death of the Teacher and the dawn of the messianic epoch), the total stretch of years arrived at is 450. And if to this total is added the duration of the Teacher’s ministry of, say, forty years - a customary round figure - the final result is the classic seventy times seven years.”

[1] Geza Vermes, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls In English, Penguin Putnam Inc., NY, 1997, p. 58​

... and the "Math" (7 x 70 = 490) isn't even in compliance with the Scripture text:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]


“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 218​

The Capitalization of "M"essiah is contrived:

First of all, one must consider the Contemporary English Version, (CEV), footnote for verse 25 which provides that any priest or king is called an anointed one (mâshiyach).

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.[1]​

There are 39 such citations, for which the translators capitalize 2 without any authorization, and for example Leviticus provides what happens if a mâshiyach sins:

4:3 If the priest that is anointed H4899 do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.[2]​

[1] Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 9 - Contemporary English Version
[2] H4899 - mashiyach - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)​

There is NO Scriptural or Societal precedent for the "seven and sixty-two" representing a sum of "sixty-nine":

Sir Isaac Newton’s DANIEL AND THE APOCALYPSE
by Sir William Whitla, London, 1922, Chapt. X, p. 281 Daniel and the Apocalypse


We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

The "going forth of the word" is NOT from a Persian man-king, but a Dictate DIRECTLY FROM GOD HIMSELF, with not other "human-intervention":

“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”[1]

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224​

"But now onto Dan. 11, starting with verse 1:

Dan. 11:1 And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.​

Exactly WHO is Darius?!? The Medo/Persian records are COMPLETE without any recognition of this "Darius", although some purport he is General Gobryas, who was in charge of the military operation at Babylon. Unfortunately, this contradicts simple logic where any conqueror would either command the existing king to pay homage and taxes, or he might simply have his staff take over the management of the newly captured city. And where Gobryas was never a King, he was only a General and possibly Governor, it doesn’t make sense that General Gobryas would plan to appoint an untested castrated Jewish slave “over the whole kingdom”.

In addition, where Gobryas died within two weeks of conquering Babylon, one might pause as to consider how a Medo/Persian General could develop such a close bond with this Jewish slave, that he was distressed, tried to rescue Daniel, exhorted Daniel, and spent the night fasting and went without sleep. And upon daybreak this purported General Gobryas hasted to Daniel and called to Daniel in anguish to see if he had perished. -- All this for a Jewish slave that he had only known for two weeks?​

When General MacArthur signed the WWII Japanese surrender document on the Battleship U.S.S. Missouri in Tokyo Bay, did he need strengthening? Certainly the Japanese did. After the war ended more than 900 Japanese were executed for war crimes, including Tojo “along with six other top Japanese leaders”.[1]

Perhaps this last Babylonian King Darius also needed strengthening with the prospect of Cyrus at the gates.

[1] This Day In History, “Dec. 23 1948 Japanese War Criminals Hanged In Tokyo”, http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/japanese-war-criminals-hanged-in-tokyo​

Shall we keep going? There's a LOT MORE which discounts any purported "Ancient" fulfillment in ANY of Daniel's Chapters ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Randy Kluth]

Be careful what you think God might do. Neither you nor I are God. We have to go by Scripture, and an end time temple is mentioned by Paul and in Revelation (and for that matter Ezekiel and Zechariah). I don't otherwise personally care what they get out of it. I just know it's prophesied. When one sees these things, we know the end is near. Deny it and the storm will take you by surprise.

It's one thing to say a "temple" is mentioned in 2 Thes 2 and in Rev 11, and it's an entirely different thing to say that these passages predicted a "3rd temple" will be built. There is a boat-load of NT theology that denies the Law, with its temple, is in effect any longer. Paul knew this. John knew this. Neither one, then, would likely predict the emergence of a "3rd temple."

So what's the alternative explanation for their mentioning a "temple?" Paul explained that the temple Antichrist would sit in would amount to a declaration of deity. This means he could situate himself in any temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

On the occasion in which John mentions the temple in Rev 11, clearly reference is being made to the OT temple. And like Ezekiel's temple vision, this temple is used to measure the true worshipers, who participate in genuine worship of God. In other words, it's symbolic of what the original temple was designed to do, namely instill Christian worship in the Church.

If all you have is Paul and John and these 2 passages, you really have the glaring reality that there is no theology of a rebuilt 3rd temple at all! It would've been very easy for the Holy Spirit to teach it, or even to briefly declare it. Instead, we have references to the temple better explained in the context of NT theology that denies the temple any place in worship today.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Is it the body of Christ?

It is, and it isn't.

It is if you want it to be, if you want to be an Amil.

It depends on where you're talking about in the Script.

The Temple that John is measuring in Revelation 11, excluding the outer court, is the Body of Christ. WE are that Temple. God's People are the inner court.

But the Temple of God that Paul is talking about in 2Thessalonians2, is the real Temple of God in Heaven. That Temple is shown in Revelation 8 when the censer is cast down, and at the end of Revelation 11 when God's Temple in Heaven is revealed and the ark of His covenant was seen within.

Paul, in Thessalonians, was drawing from Isaiah 14, Daniel 8 and Matthew 23.

It's like what Jesus was talking about when He said that the Pharisees have taken Moses' seat.

The man of sin, is this the man that made the nations tremble?, rose up to the place of His Sanctuary, and took his seat in the Temple of God and claimed to be God on 6.26.2015.

Calculate Duration Between Two Dates – Results

It's like when my mean old dad said: "who do you think YOU are?...God?

God said: "Remember the Sabbath", "You shall not murder", "You shall not commit adultery" and "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination".

Man of Sin says: "You can forget about the Sabbath, you can legalize pornography,
you can legalize abortion, you can legalize same sex marriage and be free to have a gender modification.

When the Man of Sin seeks to change these specific times and these particular Laws,
he, by default, has magnified himself above all that is called God or is worshiped and has set himself up in God's "seat" of authority in God's Temple thereby claiming to BE God.

So my story on it is spooky. I think we're already way long in the tooth for this. I wouldn't be waiting for another temple to be built in Jerusalem. I think we're already fallen away and into overtime waiting for our brothers and our fellow servants to be born, and into the signs that the dragon is given the power to do on behalf of the composite beast.

OT:

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