Jesus isn't Catholic

[Marymog]

I don't believe that I will ever be led away from this truth for as long as I believe that the holy scriptures are the word of God; for the holy scriptures clearly teach it:

Jhn 16:13, Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Since it is my view that scripture never contradicts scripture and therefore the topical or immediate context of a verse will never nullify the meaning of the verse; I find that the possibility is next to zilch that I should ever depart from this understanding that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth.

Thank you JBF,

That passage is commonly misunderstood. In context if you notice He was speaking to his Apostles ONLY. Notice how He used the word "you" multiple times in that chapter AND before that chapter? Go back several chapters before that passage and you will see that He was talking to his Apostles ONLY.

If your interpretation of that passage were correct, that all Christians 'will never be led away from this truth... as long as they believe that the holy scriptures are the word of God', then which "you" of the billions (billions of Christians) of "you" is He talking about? History makes it clear, especially since the Reformation, that all of us can't have the truth since we all have different 'truths'!! Which means A LOT of men have been "led away from this truth"!!

Mary

 

[justbyfaith]

I'll go even further than that:
Jesus wasn't a Christian at ALL, Einstein.

He is the SUBJECT of Christianity - NOT a member.
Mary, the Disciples and their Disciples were Catholic.

Here is an excerpt from on of John's disciples, who was a FIRST century Bishop of Antioch:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

Now THAT'S Catholic . . .

Of course, Catholic, in those days, meant Universal.

As soon as the catholic Church began to depart from sound doctrine (i.e. Pope Leo X), it lost its position as the Universal Church and now the word Catholic means something different....it refers to a denomination.

But as Protestants, we hold that the Universal Church consists of many who are not Cathollic....for the prerequisite of being in the church is not to subscribe to Catholic doctrine, but to believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you JBF,

That passage is commonly misunderstood. In context if you notice He was speaking to his Apostles ONLY. Notice how He used the word "you" multiple times in that chapter AND before that chapter? Go back several chapters before that passage and you will see that He was talking to his Apostles ONLY.

If your interpretation of that passage were correct, that all Christians 'will never be led away from this truth... as long as they believe that the holy scriptures are the word of God', then which "you" of the billions (billions of Christians) of "you" is He talking about? History makes it clear, especially since the Reformation, that all of us can't have the truth since we all have different 'truths'!! Which means A LOT of men have been "led away from this truth"!!

Mary

It is written that if we have the Holy Spirit, He will lead us into all truth.

This is not to say that everyone knows the truth fully the moment they receive the Holy Spirit.

They must be transformed by the renewing of their minds (Romans 12:1-2).

As soon as anyone with the Holy Spirit hears something that is truth, they will accept it as, and know it to be, the truth (1 John 2:20).

 

[Taken]

Sooooo, According to YOUR formula - if the ONLY way to be saved is by a "true heartful confession" - then ALL children under the "age of reason" go to Hell. That includes ALL people with impaired mental capabilities as well.

Boy sometimes you are so determined to present yourself with a loose screw!

The Age of a person doesn't matter...if they can not reasonably comprehend the knowledge of God...they are excepted from making a confession...Didn't you get that?

So moving on...I therefore was NOT speaking of anyone incapable of Reasoning!

For those you require the Elementary Version;
1) ANY person, ANY age, who does NOT have the cognitive skills to Reason knowledge of God...they are excepted From making a Confession with their mouth.

2) ANY person WHO Does Believe, but can not speak verbally, they are Excepted.

3) It does not matter if a person can verbally Speak....God Knows Their Thoughts.

4) If you can speak, and have Elected to Believe ...Open your mouth, and Say So!

5) THAT ^ makes you accountable to your peers who Hears your Confession.

6) And if you Confess...to your peers...and Then DO abdominal THINGS, "that Become Discovered by your peers"....they Should admonish you, counsel you, even cause you to be removed from the Church, position, shun you, depending on circumstances.

7) Confession UNTO Salvation IS ONLY... the part ... that is Required of a Compentant/ able to Reason, man.

8) The part IS The Lord Gods Response!
Gods pretty Sharp!
God Knows the BASIS for any persons Confession;
...Mindful "confessions"... occur all the Time
( and easily Fool men)

Examples...
Daddy won't pay for college, 'until Billy gets saved...so Billy agrees.

Bob wants to sit next to Susie, or date Susie, or be Susie's boyfriend; But she will not agree, until Bob gets Saved...Bob agrees.

Sandy started a new business in sales, she wants to create a quick market to sell items;
she asks to join a local mega church; oops Paster says Sandy has to first be Saved...
Sandy Agrees, men here her Confession.

George's best friend is determined to become a Pastor. George hasn't a plan of what he wants to do, but has heard his friends detailed research and plan...Sounds like an easy way to make a living. George goes to Church with his parents who have Bering bugging George to get Saved...George goes to an Alter call... his parents are elated. George breakers the news to his Parents he wants to be a Pastor...His parents get out the check-book...and start making plans.
George goes off to college, completes his work, does well...and sneaks off to meet his homosexual boyfriend....George graduates, starts a Church, has a great growth attendance...and 15 years later, announces to his congregation, he is leaving, the congregation is sad, then he announces WHY... Because he Never Really believed!
And his reputation with the congregation? kaput! But George doesn't care...man and man Marriage is all the rage...Tolerable...even promotated in some areas.

The examples are endless.

9) But the Point is:
God has ZERO interest in a man's "MINDFUL" confession (for salvation).
Men may be Fooled...
But God is Not Fooled.
* God Searches the HEARTS True thoughts of a man making a Confession unto Salvation.
God GIVES a man Salvation, ONLY, when the man's Confession IS True in the man's Hearts Thoughts.
And the Conniver...who Lied to God...who can Fool men...was NOT Saved....and Will Not be Saved...and Thus Salvation That WAS that man's TO HAVE...is Lost to that man.

10) And for the Ones of any age without reasoning skills... God searches their Hearts Too...They not having Reasoning Skills...thus do not have reasoning skills to Learn, Reason, choose to Believe IN Satan and follow Satan!

...since "They" are Not Against God, God Shall take them With Him.

Show me where the BIBLE says that.

Why. I have no obligation to show you in Scripture what YOU said.

PRAY For our Nation,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

sure and the tooth fairy is just as real as mary, and the disciples being catholic. you made that up since its NOT IN SCRIPTURE.

Sure it is.
Time for a language lesson . . .

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.


YOUR turn . . .

 

[ChristisGod]

Sure it is.
Time for a language lesson . . .

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.


YOUR turn . . .

thanks we know you are not the true church

 

[BreadOfLife]

Boy sometimes you are so determined to present yourself with a loose screw!
The Age of a person doesn't matter...if they can not reasonably comprehend the knowledge of God...they are excepted from making a confession...Didn't you get that?

So moving on...I therefore was NOT speaking of anyone incapable of Reasoning!

For those you require the Elementary Version;
1) ANY person, ANY age, who does NOT have the cognitive skills to Reason knowledge of God...they are excepted From making a Confession with their mouth.

2) ANY person WHO Does Believe, but can not speak verbally, they are Excepted.

3) It does not matter if a person can verbally Speak....God Knows Their Thoughts.

4) If you can speak, and have Elected to Believe ...Open your mouth, and Say So!

5) THAT ^ makes you accountable to your peers who Hears your Confession.

6) And if you Confess...to your peers...and Then DO abdominal THINGS, "that Become Discovered by your peers"....they Should admonish you, counsel you, even cause you to be removed from the Church, position, shun you, depending on circumstances.

7) Confession UNTO Salvation IS ONLY... the part ... that is Required of a Compentant/ able to Reason, man.

8) The part IS The Lord Gods Response!
Gods pretty Sharp!
God Knows the BASIS for any persons Confession;
...Mindful "confessions"... occur all the Time
( and easily Fool men)

Examples...
Daddy won't pay for college, 'until Billy gets saved...so Billy agrees.

Bob wants to sit next to Susie, or date Susie, or be Susie's boyfriend; But she will not agree, until Bob gets Saved...Bob agrees.

Sandy started a new business in sales, she wants to create a quick market to sell items;
she asks to join a local mega church; oops Paster says Sandy has to first be Saved...
Sandy Agrees, men here her Confession.

George's best friend is determined to become a Pastor. George hasn't a plan of what he wants to do, but has heard his friends detailed research and plan...Sounds like an easy way to make a living. George goes to Church with his parents who have Bering bugging George to get Saved...George goes to an Alter call... his parents are elated. George breakers the news to his Parents he wants to be a Pastor...His parents get out the check-book...and start making plans.
George goes off to college, completes his work, does well...and sneaks off to meet his homosexual boyfriend....George graduates, starts a Church, has a great growth attendance...and 15 years later, announces to his congregation, he is leaving, the congregation is sad, then he announces WHY... Because he Never Really believed!
And his reputation with the congregation? kaput! But George doesn't care...man and man Marriage is all the rage...Tolerable...even promotated in some areas.

The examples are endless.

9) But the Point is:
God has ZERO interest in a man's "MINDFUL" confession (for salvation).
Men may be Fooled...
But God is Not Fooled.
* God Searches the HEARTS True thoughts of a man making a Confession unto Salvation.
God GIVES a man Salvation, ONLY, when the man's Confession IS True in the man's Hearts Thoughts.
And the Conniver...who Lied to God...who can Fool men...was NOT Saved....and Will Not be Saved...and Thus Salvation That WAS that man's TO HAVE...is Lost to that man.

10) And for the Ones of any age without reasoning skills... God searches their Hearts Too...They not having Reasoning Skills...thus do not have reasoning skills to Learn, Reason, choose to Believe IN Satan and follow Satan!

...since "They" are Not Against God, God Shall take them With Him.

Why. I have no obligation to show you in Scripture what YOU said.

PRAY For our Nation,
Taken

Cool.

ALL you have to do now is to show me where the BIBLE makes this claim.
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

thanks we know you are not the true church

Thank you for that impotent and empty response.

 

[ChristisGod]

Thank you for that impotent and empty response.

I have bigger fish to fry than guppies.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Of course, Catholic, in those days, meant Universal.

As soon as the catholic Church began to depart from sound doctrine (i.e. Pope Leo X), it lost its position as the Universal Church and now the word Catholic means something different....it refers to a denomination.

But as Protestants, we hold that the Universal Church consists of many who are not Cathollic....for the prerequisite of being in the church is not to subscribe to Catholic doctrine, but to believe in Jesus Christ.

Soooooo, let me get this straight:
YOU believe that the Catholic Church WAS the ONE true Church until Pope Leo X in the 16th century?

I can introduce you to HUNDREDS of Protestants who would disagree with you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have bigger fish to fry than guppies.

No - you just ran out of ammunition.
That's what happens when you bring a pea-shooter to a gunfight . . .

 

[ChristisGod]

Soooooo, let me get this straight:
YOU believe that the Catholic Church WAS the ONE true Church until Pope Leo X in the 16th century?

I can introduce you to HUNDREDS of Protestants who would disagree with you.

no the little catholic body of Christ not the corrupted RCC church there is a HUGE difference between the True Church little catholic as in universal and the Big C as in the RCC the false church.

 

[justbyfaith]

Cool.

ALL you have to do now is to show me where the BIBLE makes this claim.
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

Romans 7:9 is the verse on the age of accountability.

 

[Marymog]

It is written that if we have the Holy Spirit, He will lead us into all truth.

This is not to say that everyone knows the truth fully the moment they receive the Holy Spirit.

They must be transformed by the renewing of their minds (Romans 12:1-2).

As soon as anyone with the Holy Spirit hears something that is truth, they will accept it as, and know it to be, the truth (1 John 2:20).

It is written ABOUT Scripture that some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Soooo how do YOU, justbyfaith, determine who the untaught and unstable are that are distorting Scripture? How do you KNOW who has been transformed by the renewing of their minds and has been led into the truth and KNOW what they teach to be the truth? Calvin and Luther thought they had the truth and they disagreed with each other.

 

[Marymog]

I have bigger fish to fry than guppies.

LOL...apparently you don't since you keep interjecting yourself....;) (friendly jab, don't take it personal)

In post #606 you stated that we know that you are not the true church.

Since you KNOW what the true church is not then you must know what the true church is? Please share....

Curious Mary

 

[justbyfaith]

It is written ABOUT Scripture that some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Soooo how do YOU, justbyfaith, determine who the untaught and unstable are that are distorting Scripture? How do you KNOW who has been transformed by the renewing of their minds and has been led into the truth and KNOW what they teach to be the truth? Calvin and Luther thought they had the truth and they disagreed with each other.

We are not the judge of whether someone else has the truth; except that we are to be Bereans (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) concerning all teachers. We are also to ask the Lord that He might give unto us the Spirit of truth so that we will be able to properly discern the truth (see Luke 11:9-13). That way we can know that at the very least, we, are not the untaught and unstable ones that Peter is speaking of in that scripture.

 

[Marymog]

no the little catholic body of Christ not the corrupted RCC church there is a HUGE difference between the True Church little catholic as in universal and the Big C as in the RCC the false church.

Lol...I thought you had bigger fish to fry?

 

[justbyfaith]

LOL...apparently you don't since you keep interjecting yourself....;) (friendly jab, don't take it personal)

In post #606 you stated that we know that you are not the true church.

Since you KNOW what the true church is not then you must know what the true church is? Please share....

Curious Mary

I know I'm butting in; but let me put in my two cents.

The true church consists of all those who genuinely place their faith and trust in Jesus Christ and what He did for them on the Cross, for salvation.

 

[Marymog]

We are not the judge of whether someone else has the truth; except that we are to be Bereans (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) concerning all teachers. We are also to ask the Lord that He might give unto us the Spirit of truth so that we will be able to properly discern the truth (see Luke 11:9-13). That way we can know that at the very least, we, are not the untaught and unstable ones that peter is speaking of in that scripture.

Hmmmm......so we can never figure out the truth?

The Bereans compared Scripture (what we call the OT now) to what they were being told (oral tradition) about Jesus and came to the right conclusion (that Jesus was in fact the savior spoken of in OT Scripture).

Sooooo you rely on oral tradition also? Just like the Bereans?

 

[justbyfaith]

Hmmmm......so we can never figure out the truth?

The Bereans compared Scripture (what we call the OT now) to what they were being told (oral tradition) about Jesus and came to the right conclusion (that Jesus was in fact the savior spoken of in OT Scripture).

Sooooo you rely on oral tradition also? Just like the Bereans?

It doesn't say that the Bereans relied on oral tradition.

It says that they tested, what Paul said to them in his preaching, by the holy scriptures.