Daniel 2:44!
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Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
It was never God’s purpose for humans to die? The Bible book of Genesis provides evidence that it was God’s purpose for humans to live forever on earth. Jehovah God took great care to prepare the earth for human habitation. Then he created the first man, Adam, and placed him in a paradise, a garden in Eden. After that, “God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good.”—Genesis 1:26, 31.
Adam was created perfect, in God’s image. (Deuteronomy 32:4) Adam’s wife, Eve, too was without defect of any kind, perfect in mind and body. Jehovah said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”—Genesis 1:28.
To fill the earth with their offspring would take time. Eve would have children, and those children would bear children until the earth became fully inhabited just as God intended. (Isaiah 45:18) Is it reasonable to think that Jehovah would offer Adam and Eve that prospect if they were meant to live only long enough to see their children and perhaps grandchildren, and never know the outcome?
Think, too, about the commission to have the animals in subjection. Adam was told to name the animals, and that would have taken time. (Genesis 2:19) But to have them in subjection would have meant that he would have had to learn about them and to understand how to care for them. That would have taken far more time.
So God’s instructions to fill the earth and to have animals in subjection indicate that the first human couple were designed to live for a long time.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
What you are saying here is historical nonsense. In fact, it goes beyond nonsense and is an outright lie.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You speak in ignorance. Context, if I might remind you of something you should know determines the truth of anything. Without context you can make anything say anything otherwise I might ask you, where does the bible say you have to do up shoelaces or stop at red lights?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Messianic kingdom
Jesus’ disciples were well aware that they had to keep on the watch for Jesus’ promised “presence” and the coming of his Kingdom. In time, it was appreciated that this Kingdom will rule over the earth for a thousand years and transform it into a paradise. (Matt. 24:3; 2 Tim. 4:18; Rev. 20:4, 6) The Christian Bible writers exhorted first-century witnesses to keep spiritually awake and to keep separate from the world. (Jas. 1:27; 4:4; 5:7, 8; 1 Pet. 4:7) But once the apostles died, Christian expectation of Christ’s presence and the coming of his Kingdom faded. Why?
One factor was the spiritual contamination caused by the Greek doctrine of the immortality of the soul. As it took hold among Christians, the millennial hope was gradually abandoned. Why? The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology explains: “The doctrine of the immortality of the soul came in to take the place of NT [New Testament] eschatology [the teaching on the “Last Things”] with its hope of the resurrection of the dead and the new creation (Rev. 21 ), so that the soul receives judgment after death and attains to paradise now thought of as other-worldly.” In other words, apostate Christians thought that the soul survived the body at death and that the blessings of Christ’s Millennial Reign must therefore relate to the spirit realm. They thus transferred Paradise from earth to heaven, which, they believed, the saved soul attains at death. There was, then, no need to watch for Christ’s presence and the coming of his Kingdom, since at death they all hoped to join Christ in heaven.
Another factor, though, actually made it seem to be pointless to watch for the coming of Christ’s Kingdom. The New Encyclopædia Britannica explains: “The [apparent] delay of the Parousia resulted in a weakening of the imminent expectation in the early church. In this process of ‘de-eschatologizing’ [weakening of the teaching on the “Last Things”], the institutional church increasingly replaced the expected Kingdom of God. The formation of the Catholic Church as a hierarchical institution is directly connected with the declining of the imminent expectation.” So not only were millennial blessings transferred from earth to heaven but the Kingdom was shifted from heaven to earth. This “relocation” was completed by Augustine of Hippo (354-430 C.E.). In his famous work The City of God, he stated: “The Church even now is the kingdom of Christ, and the kingdom of heaven.”
Meanwhile, in about 313 C.E., during the rule of Roman Emperor Constantine, legal recognition was given to Christianity, much of which by this time had become apostate in its thinking. Religious leaders were willing to be put into the service of the State, and at first the State controlled religious affairs. (Before long, religion would control State affairs.) Thus began Christendom, part of which (the Catholic religion) in time became the official State religion of Rome. Now, the “kingdom” not only was in the world but was part of the world. What a far cry from the Kingdom that Christ preached.
Jesus’ disciples were well aware that they had to keep on the watch for Jesus’ promised “presence” and the coming of his Kingdom. In time, it was appreciated that this Kingdom will rule over the earth for a thousand years and transform it into a paradise. (Matt. 24:3; 2 Tim. 4:18; Rev. 20:4, 6) The Christian Bible writers exhorted first-century witnesses to keep spiritually awake and to keep separate from the world. (Jas. 1:27; 4:4; 5:7, 8; 1 Pet. 4:7) But once the apostles died, Christian expectation of Christ’s presence and the coming of his Kingdom faded. Why?
One factor was the spiritual contamination caused by the Greek doctrine of the immortality of the soul. As it took hold among Christians, the millennial hope was gradually abandoned. Why? The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology explains: “The doctrine of the immortality of the soul came in to take the place of NT [New Testament] eschatology [the teaching on the “Last Things”] with its hope of the resurrection of the dead and the new creation (Rev. 21 ), so that the soul receives judgment after death and attains to paradise now thought of as other-worldly.” In other words, apostate Christians thought that the soul survived the body at death and that the blessings of Christ’s Millennial Reign must therefore relate to the spirit realm. They thus transferred Paradise from earth to heaven, which, they believed, the saved soul attains at death. There was, then, no need to watch for Christ’s presence and the coming of his Kingdom, since at death they all hoped to join Christ in heaven.
Another factor, though, actually made it seem to be pointless to watch for the coming of Christ’s Kingdom. The New Encyclopædia Britannica explains: “The [apparent] delay of the Parousia resulted in a weakening of the imminent expectation in the early church. In this process of ‘de-eschatologizing’ [weakening of the teaching on the “Last Things”], the institutional church increasingly replaced the expected Kingdom of God. The formation of the Catholic Church as a hierarchical institution is directly connected with the declining of the imminent expectation.” So not only were millennial blessings transferred from earth to heaven but the Kingdom was shifted from heaven to earth. This “relocation” was completed by Augustine of Hippo (354-430 C.E.). In his famous work The City of God, he stated: “The Church even now is the kingdom of Christ, and the kingdom of heaven.”
Meanwhile, in about 313 C.E., during the rule of Roman Emperor Constantine, legal recognition was given to Christianity, much of which by this time had become apostate in its thinking. Religious leaders were willing to be put into the service of the State, and at first the State controlled religious affairs. (Before long, religion would control State affairs.) Thus began Christendom, part of which (the Catholic religion) in time became the official State religion of Rome. Now, the “kingdom” not only was in the world but was part of the world. What a far cry from the Kingdom that Christ preached.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Yeah it's a heavenly kingdom called the Messianic kingdom that Jesus Christ is King of.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
There were no Apostles at nicea. There were only 12 Apostles who lived during the 1st century. Yes those theologians or religious leaders who were at nicea were apostates. They were the weeds or immitation Christians Jesus spoke about. Most everyone today who calls himself/herself a Christian is an immitation Christian although they honestly believe that's not true and that they are the true congregation of the True God. Yet these very ones who say they're Christians don't think what God's Holy Spirit had written down to be that important but instead these immigration Christians believe that it's there interpretations of what's written down that's more important and should be listened to instead of what's written down. I will always disagree with imperfect humans who think their interpretation of what Gods Holy Spirit had written down to be more important than what God's Holy Spirit had written down. What is written down by God's Holy Spirit is Scripture. Imperfect human interpretations is simply that, from the thoughts of imperfect humans.
12 apostles, who are you excluding? Paul? Judus? Mathias?
matt 28:19 teach all nations is impossible for the apostles, successors are implied and required to teach all nations, don’t disciples still need to be baptized?
Matt 23:1 are the successors of Moses valid successors? With valid authority and power?
or because the are successors they must be anti-Moses?
matt 28:19 teach all nations is impossible for the apostles, successors are implied and required to teach all nations, don’t disciples still need to be baptized?
Matt 23:1 are the successors of Moses valid successors? With valid authority and power?
or because the are successors they must be anti-Moses?
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
You can use the word Apostle all you want, to convince yourself that the council of Nicea was backed by God's Holy Spirit. However the scriptures we're complete long before the council of Nicea and the scriptures don't contain no Trinity Doctrine. So many people today who say they're Christian will never believe that the majority of those who say they're Christian are immitation Christians, the weeds Jesus spoke about.
These immitation christians which included those at the Council of Nicea believe as the Catholic Church believed that though probably possessing a Bible and freely speaking of it as God’s Word, in reality these professed friends of the Bible are in a false position and, in effect, contradict themselves. This is well illustrated by the following quotation from a Roman Catholic publication. Under the heading, “How Catholics Regard the Bible,” we read: “Catholics cherish and have the highest esteem and veneration for the Bible as the inspired Word of God, and regard it as a treasure of unique value.” What finer expression of confidence could you want, right? But wait! The next sentence reads: “But they, the Catholics consider that the Bible was never intended to be the sole and adequate Rule of Faith, partly because it is not a sufficiently exhaustive account of all Christ’s teaching, partly because its expressions of doctrine are not always clear and need authoritative interpretation.” So with peoples confidence in the Bible now undermined, they are then told that the authority of the Catholic church is the divinely provided means for preserving Christ’s full teaching for all time. In other words, it is not the voice of God’s Word, but, rather, the voice of the Catholic church that should be heeded as having full and final authority.
Most People, who say they're Christians today are like the Catholics in the past who think their interpretation of a scripture is what should be listened to not what God's Holy Spirit had written down. As I said there is no Trinity Doctrine written down in the Holy writings that God's Holy Spirit had written down. Thus these immitation Christians are taking you from the voice of God word and influencing people to follow them and their interpretation. They are the modern day Pharisees who put their oral law before the inspired word that was written down at that time.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
When you resist from pointing the finger at the 'flaws' of others .....how wrong they are and how right you are.....when you start taking responsibility for yourself, perhaps your audience might respond better.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
even here you are pointing the finger and through implication, exonerating yourself.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
It was a mistake. I meant to say I could care less about what hypocrites have to say when they speak out against JW and point their fingers like they do. You guys don't want me pointing at the flaws of Christendom shut up about JW otherwise take what you dish out
you don’t believe in the Trinity???
then what is the true church founded by Christ on Peter? Matt 16:18 and the apostles Matt 18:18 who are these true Christians who deny the Trinity, do you also deny the divinity of Christ cos without the Trinity one God in three persons you have to deny the divinity of Christ????
Who founded the JW’s and by who’s authority was it founded, no man has authority to found a church, there is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors! Matt 16:18 and 18:18
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I didn't say the True Church is founded on Peter, it's founded on Jesus Christ. Everyone who believes all those who acknowledge the religious leaders at the Council of Nicea as true Christians and Christendom with all it's protestant and Catholic churches as being true Christians are wrong, they are the weeds Jesus spoke of.
The historical record shows that, just as Jesus and the New Testament writers foretold, various heretical ideas and teachers rose up from within the early Church and infiltrated it from without. Christ Himself warned His followers: "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5).
You can read many similar warnings in other passages (such as Matthew 24:11; Acts 20:29-30; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; 2 Timothy 4:2-4; 2 Peter 2:1-2; 1 John 2:18-26; 1 John 4:1-3).
Barely two decades after Christ's death and resurrection, the apostle Paul wrote that many believers were already "turning away to a different gospel" (Galatians 1:6). He wrote that he was forced to contend with "false apostles, deceitful workers" who were fraudulently "transforming themselves into apostles of Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:13). One of the major problems he had to deal with was "false brethren" (2 Corinthians 11:26).
By late in the first century, as we see from 3 John 9-10, conditions had grown so dire that false ministers openly refused to receive representatives of the apostle John and were excommunicating true Christians from the Church!
It wasn't long before true servants of God became a marginalized and scattered minority among those calling themselves Christian. A very different religion, now compromised with many concepts and practices rooted in ancient paganism (such mixing of religious beliefs being known as syncretism, common in the Roman Empire at the time), took hold and transformed the faith founded by Jesus Christ.
So many today don't want to believe that the true Christians became marginalized and became a scattered minority. This fact however is in keeping with the wheat and the weeds. For a period of time people wouldn't be able to distinguish between the weeds and the wheat. In keeping with the scriptures it was the wheat who were the minority the weeds were the majority. It wouldn't be til the last days of this wicked world we're living in which includes our living in the second presence of Jesus Christ that people with the right heart condition would recognize the true church of God over the apostate church of God
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