Daniel 2:44!

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Not because I said so, but because of prophecy and it’s purpose

the pharisees and saducees looked for king messiah not suffering servant that’s why they could not see. Jesus literally fulfilled all scripture concerning his 1st advent, using precedence, all scripture concerning his second should be literally fulfilled also,

Yes the Pharisees and Saddusees got it wrong. The Only Begotten Son of God was to come as a suffering servant, yet the Apostles and disciples of Jesus had faith in him, why? Isn't it because that the Pharisees and Saddusees cared more about their station and prominence in life, money, and their oral law than they did the scriptures. Yet the common Jews(Apostles and disciples) that the Pharisees and Saddusees dispised put faith in Jesus. The point is the Pharisees and Saddusees cared more about what their own thoughts about what made a person a true servant of God than what the scriptures said about what made a person a true servant of God. The same is true with Christendom. They say the Bible is from God but they don't put it's teaching first. In fact they deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that became human and died for the World of mankind even though the say that's what happened. Instead they go by their own thoughts and say it was God who became human and died for mankind denying it was the Only Begotten Son of God who came to the world of mankind. Christendom can believe that man's thoughts about what makes a person a true Christian all they want but I believe the scriptures that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the World of mankind. The Doctrine of the Trinity, immortality of the Soul and Hellfire Doctrine to name a few are Doctrines of men not what the Holy Spirit of God inspired to be written down.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Yes the Pharisees and Saddusees got it wrong. The Only Begotten Son of God was to come as a suffering servant, yet the Apostles and disciples of Jesus had faith in him, why? Isn't it because that the Pharisees and Saddusees cared more about their station and prominence in life, money, and their oral law than they did the scriptures. Yet the common Jews(Apostles and disciples) that the Pharisees and Saddusees dispised put faith in Jesus. The point is the Pharisees and Saddusees cared more about what their own thoughts about what made a person a true servant of God than what the scriptures said about what made a person a true servant of God. The same is true with Christendom. They say the Bible is from God but they don't put it's teaching first. In fact they deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that became human and died for the World of mankind even though the say that's what happened. Instead they go by their own thoughts and say it was God who became human and died for mankind denying it was the Only Begotten Son of God who came to the world of mankind. Christendom can believe that man's thoughts about what makes a person a true Christian all they want but I believe the scriptures that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the World of mankind. The Doctrine of the Trinity, immortality of the Soul and Hellfire Doctrine to name a few are Doctrines of men not what the Holy Spirit of God inspired to be written down.
This does not make what I said wrong

Jesus literally fulfilled the suffering servant prophecies, thus in keeping the example, he will also literally fulfilled king messiah prophecies also.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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This does not make what I said wrong

Jesus literally fulfilled the suffering servant prophecies, thus in keeping the example, he will also literally fulfilled king messiah prophecies also.

I'm not disputing the prophecies of Jesus as King I'm disputing the way christendom says it will happen. For instance right now today Jesus has stood up as King in that heavenly messianic kingdom. We are living in the second presence of Jesus today. The reason Christendom disagrees with that is they teach that the second presence of Jesus Christ will be literally a visible presence. This however is not in agreement with scripture. Jesus himself said that the world would not see him again and with keeping with that when Jesus was resurrected no one saw him except his disciples. Even when the Angel of God rolled away the stone covering where Jesus was laid the guards saw the Angel but not Jesus. No unbeliever saw Jesus. The second presence of Jesus will be an invisible presence not a presence where he takes on flesh again and everyone literally seeing him. Jesus will not literally rule on Earth as King, that Messianic kingdom being on Earth as Christendom says. Jesus will rule over earth in that heavenly Messianic kingdom. In other words that Messianic kingdom is in heaven and Jesus will rule over the world of righteous mankind from heaven along with those chosen by God from among mankind to be kings and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I'm not disputing the prophecies of Jesus as King I'm disputing the way christendom says it will happen. For instance right now today Jesus has stood up as King in that heavenly messianic kingdom. We are living in the second presence of Jesus today. The reason Christendom disagrees with that is they teach that the second presence of Jesus Christ will be literally a visible presence. This however is not in agreement with scripture. Jesus himself said that the world would not see him again and with keeping with that when Jesus was resurrected no one saw him except his disciples. Even when the Angel of God rolled away the stone covering where Jesus was laid the guards saw the Angel but not Jesus. No unbeliever saw Jesus. The second presence of Jesus will be an invisible presence not a presence where he takes on flesh again and everyone literally seeing him. Jesus will not literally rule on Earth as King, that Messianic kingdom being on Earth as Christendom says. Jesus will rule over earth in that heavenly Messianic kingdom. In other words that Messianic kingdom is in heaven and Jesus will rule over the world of righteous mankind from heaven along with those chosen by God from among mankind to be kings and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom.
Jesus is not in Jerusalem
The people of,the world are not going to jerusalem to worship once a year
Jesus is not punishing those who refuse with no rain.
The abomination never took place
The lion and lamb do not sleep together nor does the baby and the serpent

way to much prophecy you are ignoring
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Jesus is not in Jerusalem
The people of,the world are not going to jerusalem to worship once a year
Jesus is not punishing those who refuse with no rain.
The abomination never took place
The lion and lamb do not sleep together nor does the baby and the serpent

way to much prophecy you are ignoring

The scriptures don't say that Jesus is going to be in that literal Jerusalem in that geographic Israel in the middle east in the future, the new Jerusalem is a heavenly Jerusalem. The people of the world are never going to go to that literal Jerusalem in that geographic Israel in the middle east to worship once a year because the new Jerusalem is a heavenly Jerusalem. The abomination is taking place now you just don't recognize it nor would you probably believe it. The lion and the lamb are sleeping together today in a sense but will leterally happen in the future after armageddon sometime.
 

Eternally Grateful

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The scriptures don't say that Jesus is going to be in that literal Jerusalem in that geographic Israel in the middle east in the future, the new Jerusalem is a heavenly Jerusalem. The people of the world are never going to go to that literal Jerusalem in that geographic Israel in the middle east to worship once a year because the new Jerusalem is a heavenly Jerusalem. The abomination is taking place now you just don't recognize it nor would you probably believe it. The lion and the lamb are sleeping together today in a sense but will leterally happen in the future after armageddon sometime.
Actually yes it does. In numerous places. You should study OT prophecy. I gave you an example of one prophecy. I was hoping you would catch the words and be reminded of what the prophet said
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Actually yes it does. In numerous places. You should study OT prophecy. I gave you an example of one prophecy. I was hoping you would catch the words and be reminded of what the prophet said

No actually it doesn't. You should listen to Jesus himself, what he says. That's not important to you however. .
 

Eternally Grateful

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No actually it doesn't. You should listen to Jesus himself, what he says. That's not important to you however. .
Nice response, no meat, just opinionated Blah

tell me, when has the following happened?

Is 11
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.

5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.

6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,

For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.

10 “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious.”

11 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time
To recover the remnant of His people who are left,

From Assyria and Egypt,
From Pathros and Cush,
From Elam and Shinar,
From Hamath and the islands of the sea.

12 He will set up a banner for the nations,
And will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
And gather together the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth.


or how about this?

Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,

The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.

4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,

Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.


5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.

But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.

8 And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.


10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and fromthe Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.

11 The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:

Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.


13 It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the Lord will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;

14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

15 Such also shall be the plague
On the horse and the mule,
On the camel and the donkey,
And on all the cattle that will be in those camps.
So shall this plague be.

The Nations Worship the King
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lordstrikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

do tell when these happened, or will you just ignore them and call me unlearned?
 

amigo de christo

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It is high time to praise the LORD everyone . so lift up those hands and let the praises flow out unto the LORD .
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Nice response, no meat, just opinionated Blah

tell me, when has the following happened?

Is 11
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.

5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.

6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord

As the waters cover the sea.

10 “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious.”

11 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time
To recover the remnant of His people who are left,

From Assyria and Egypt,
From Pathros and Cush,
From Elam and Shinar,
From Hamath and the islands of the sea.

12 He will set up a banner for the nations,
And will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
And gather together the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth.


or how about this?

Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,

The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.

4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,

Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.


5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.

But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.

8 And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.


10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and fromthe Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.

11 The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:

Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.


13 It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the Lord will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;

14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

15 Such also shall be the plague
On the horse and the mule,
On the camel and the donkey,
And on all the cattle that will be in those camps.
So shall this plague be.

The Nations Worship the King
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lordstrikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

do tell when these happened, or will you just ignore them and call me unlearned?

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that when you consider talking about the second presence of Jesus Christ you're thinking that people will literally see him when his second presence begins.
The scriptures show us however that Jesus Christ second presence is invisible and while the scriptures show that Jesus will begin ruling in the midst of his enemies that doesn't mean Armageddon starts at the beginning of his second presence.
In the year 33 C.E., when Jesus, the spirit-anointed descendant of King David, rode in a triumphal procession into Jerusalem, that city did not want him as King. Thus the earthly Jerusalem renounced its right to have the Permanent Heir of King David sit upon a royal throne within it. Its Supreme Court, the Sanhedrin, had Jesus Christ put to death on an execution stake just outside the walls of Jerusalem.—Matthew 21:1-43.
The unbelieving Jews, led by their religious shepherds, took Jesus to be a false Christ. But not so! For on the third day the Almighty God of heaven did the humanly impossible. He raised the real Permanent Heir of King David from the dead, not giving him back his forever-sacrificed fleshly body, but giving him spirit nature, the “divine nature,” clothed with immortality. That is the meaning of the Christian apostle Peter’s own words: “Even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”—1 Peter 3:18; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:42-45, 53, 54.

So Jesus Christ will not come as a fleshy being because he is a immortal spiritual being. He has Spirit nature, Devine nature not human nature. The Throne he will rule from is spiritual Jerusalem heavenly Jerusalem.

I agree that these scriptures you quoted can be applied in these last days as they did on a minor scale concerning Israel.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that when you consider talking about the second presence of Jesus Christ you're thinking that people will literally see him when his second presence begins.
The scriptures show us however that Jesus Christ second presence is invisible and while the scriptures show that Jesus will begin ruling in the midst of his enemies that doesn't mean Armageddon starts at the beginning of his second presence.
In the year 33 C.E., when Jesus, the spirit-anointed descendant of King David, rode in a triumphal procession into Jerusalem, that city did not want him as King. Thus the earthly Jerusalem renounced its right to have the Permanent Heir of King David sit upon a royal throne within it. Its Supreme Court, the Sanhedrin, had Jesus Christ put to death on an execution stake just outside the walls of Jerusalem.—Matthew 21:1-43.
The unbelieving Jews, led by their religious shepherds, took Jesus to be a false Christ. But not so! For on the third day the Almighty God of heaven did the humanly impossible. He raised the real Permanent Heir of King David from the dead, not giving him back his forever-sacrificed fleshly body, but giving him spirit nature, the “divine nature,” clothed with immortality. That is the meaning of the Christian apostle Peter’s own words: “Even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”—1 Peter 3:18; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:42-45, 53, 54.

So Jesus Christ will not come as a fleshy being because he is a immortal spiritual being. He has Spirit nature, Devine nature not human nature. The Throne he will rule from is spiritual Jerusalem heavenly Jerusalem.

I agree that these scriptures you quoted can be applied in these last days as they did on a minor scale concerning Israel.
You forget when Jesus ressurected he walked, he ate and he touched people, he even told Thomas to stick he hand in his side, and look and touch the holes in his hands, he also while walking with them in that state rose into the could, and remember, the angel said he would return the same way.

why did you not talk about those passages? Which showed a physical return, which showed a healed earth and animals and babies walking together with no fear, then consequence of the fall having been corrected? Which showed, hw even then people who do not go see the risen king in Jerusalem will be punished with no rain? You know, the one who scripture says will rule with an rod of iron?

sorry man, but I just can not see why you do not see a physical kingdom. It’s all over OT prophecy.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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[QUOTE="Eternally Grateful, post: 834932, member: 8558"
You forget when Jesus ressurected he walked, he ate and he touched people, he even told Thomas to stick he hand in his side, and look and touch the holes in his hands, he also while walking with them in that state rose into the could, and remember, the angel said he would return the same way.
In times past Angels which are spirits or spiritual beings who are invisible in their natural form which is spirit, materialized fleshly bodies that looked human and they talked, walked, touched and even ate with God's prophets in times past.
Also that Angel you spoke of, the scriptures show that the Angel said that Jesus would return in the same manner in which he left not with the same body in which he left.
You also forget the Apostle Paul who spoke about the resurrection at 1Corinthians 15:42-50. In those scriptures it is shown that Jesus at his resurrection became a life giving Spirit. Did Jesus materialize a body so that he could talk, walk, touch and eat with his Apostles and disciples, yes. If Angels have the ability to materialize fleshly bodies that look human a powerful spiritual being who is immortal and incorruptible certainly can.
Also when Jesus appeared to the Apostles at one time he just appeared among them even though all the doors and windows were shut and locked. Also when Jesus was walking with two men in which they ultimately ended up somewhere in a house They we're about to eat and Jesus blessed the food and instantly disappeared right in front of the two men.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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sorry man, but I just can not see why you do not see a physical kingdom. It’s all over OT prophecy.

This earth will be a Paradise for sure one day. All the humans on it will eventually be perfect sinless humans who will not be getting old sick or dying. But the humans living on earth will be the subjects of that kingdom not the kings, priests and judges of that kingdom who have been given immortality and inherited incorruption. Those who will be the kings, priests, and judges with Jesus who will have a resurrection like his being given immortality and inheriting incorruption will be in heaven which is where that messianic kingdom is. Remember when Jesus said at John 14:2,3:
In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Why would Jesus say that he was going to heaven to prepare a place for them so that where he was there they would be?
 

Eternally Grateful

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This earth will be a Paradise for sure one day. All the humans on it will eventually be perfect sinless humans who will not be getting old sick or dying. But the humans living on earth will be the subjects of that kingdom not the kings, priests and judges of that kingdom who have been given immortality and inherited incorruption. Those who will be the kings, priests, and judges with Jesus who will have a resurrection like his being given immortality and inheriting incorruption will be in heaven which is where that messianic kingdom is. Remember when Jesus said at John 14:2,3:
In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Why would Jesus say that he was going to heaven to prepare a place for them so that where he was there they would be?
True

but in the passages I showed you

1 babies are still born

2. there is still sin on the earth, Jesus had to punish them with no rain

And Jesus was ruling on earth in Jerusalem.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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True

but in the passages I showed you

1 babies are still born

2. there is still sin on the earth, Jesus had to punish them with no rain

And Jesus was ruling on earth in Jerusalem.

I can only tell you that after Armageddon the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ will begin. During that time in the beginning mankind will still have sin yes, but Satan and his demons will have been imprisoned so that they can't influence mankind to do wicked things. All unrighteous mankind will have been destroyed. Also during that time babies will be born. By the end of that thousand year reign God working through his Only Begotten Son will have taken mankind back to perfection.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I can only tell you that after Armageddon the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ will begin. During that time in the beginning mankind will still have sin yes, but Satan and his demons will have been imprisoned so that they can't influence mankind to do wicked things. All unrighteous mankind will have been destroyed. Also during that time babies will be born. By the end of that thousand year reign God working through his Only Begotten Son will have taken mankind back to perfection.
Yet at the end of the 1000 years, satan is loosed and quickly gathers an army, (Sinful men are still alive) which is defeated by Christ once again, and then this earth is destroyed and made new a new heavens and earth, where there is no sin, no pain, no suffering,
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Yet at the end of the 1000 years, satan is loosed and quickly gathers an army, (Sinful men are still alive) which is defeated by Christ once again, and then this earth is destroyed and made new a new heavens and earth, where there is no sin, no pain, no suffering,

"New Heaven and New Earth" mean something other than what you believe. Planet Earth as well as this physical universe will not be destroyed ever.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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New Heaven and New Earth
Part 1
I would like you to fix in mind the setting the material Isaiah penned in chapter 65 of Isaiah, the situation it dealt with. God’s prophet Isaiah, who penned these words, lived over a century before the kingdom of Judah ended. The end came when Jehovah withdrew protection from the unfaithful Jews, letting the Babylonians devastate Jerusalem and take its people into exile. That occurred more than a hundred years after Isaiah predicted it.—2 Chronicles 36:15-21.

As to historical background of the fulfillment, recall that with God’s guidance Isaiah foretold the name of the yet unborn Persian, Cyrus, who finally overthrew Babylon. (Isaiah 45:1) Cyrus set the stage for the Jews’ return to their homeland in 537 B.C.E. Amazingly, Isaiah foretold that restoration, as we read in Isa chapter 65. He focused on the situation that the Israelites could enjoy back in their homeland after the Persian Cyrus defeated Babylon and allowed the Jews who wanted to, to go back.

We read at Isaiah 65:17-19: “Here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. But exult, you people, and be joyful forever in what I am creating. For here I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation. And I will be joyful in Jerusalem and exult in my people; and no more will there be heard in her the sound of weeping or the sound of a plaintive cry.” Certainly, Isaiah described conditions that were far better than those the Jews had lived under in Babylon. He foretold joyfulness and rejoicing. Now look at the expression “new heavens and a new earth.” This is the first of four occurrences of that phrase in the Bible, and these four passages can have a direct bearing on our future, even foretelling it.

The initial fulfillment of Isaiah 65:17-19 involved the ancient Jews who, as Isaiah accurately predicted, did return to their homeland, where they reestablished pure worship. (Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-4) You realize, of course, that they returned to a homeland on the same planet, not somewhere else in the universe. That realization can help us to see what Isaiah meant by new heavens and a new earth. We do not have to speculate, as some do, about vague prophecies of Nostradamus or other human prognosticators. The Bible itself clarifies what Isaiah meant.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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New Heaven and New Earth
Part 2

The Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M’Clintock and Strong, states: “Wherever the scene of a prophetic vision is laid, heaven signifies . . . the whole assembly of the ruling powers . . . being over and ruling the subjects, as the natural heaven stands over and rules the earth.” As to the combination phrase “heaven and earth,” the Cyclopædia explains that ‘in prophetic language the phrase signifies the political condition of persons of different ranks. The heaven is the sovereignty; the earth is the peasantry, men who are ruled by superiors.’

When the Jews returned to their homeland, they gained what might be called a new system of things. There was a new ruling body. Zerubbabel, a descendant of King David, was governor, and Joshua was high priest. (Haggai 1:1, 12; 2:21; Zechariah 6:11) These constituted “new heavens.” Over what? The “new heavens” were over “a new earth,” the cleansed society of people who were back in their land in order to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple for worshiping Jehovah. Hence, in this real sense, there were new heavens and a new earth in the fulfillment involving the Jews at that time.

Take care not to miss the point. This is neither an exercise in Biblical interpretation nor a mere glance at ancient history. You can see this by moving to another occurrence of the phrase “new heavens and a new earth.” In 2 Peter chapter 3, you will find this occurrence and see that our future is involved.

The apostle Peter wrote his letter over 500 years after the Jews returned to their homeland. As one of Jesus’ apostles, Peter was writing to the followers of Christ, “the Lord” mentioned at 2 Peter 3:2. In 2Pe 3 verse 4, Peter brings up Jesus’ “promised presence,” which makes the prophecy very pertinent today. Ample evidence shows that since World War I, Jesus has been present in the sense of having authority as Ruler in God’s heavenly Kingdom. (Revelation 6:1-8; 11:15, 18) This takes on special meaning in view of something else that Peter foretold in this chapter.

We read at 2 Peter 3:13: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” You may already have learned that Jesus in heaven is the key Ruler in the “new heavens.” (Luke 1:32, 33) Yet, other Bible texts indicate that he does not rule alone. Jesus promised that the apostles and some others like them would have a place in heaven. In the book of Hebrews, the apostle Paul described such ones as “partakers of the heavenly calling.” And Jesus said that those of this group would sit on thrones in heaven with him. (Hebrews 3:1; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:28-30; John 14:2, 3) The point is that others reign with Jesus as part of the new heavens. Then what did Peter mean by the term “new earth”?

As with the ancient fulfillment—the return of the Jews to their homeland—the current fulfillment of 2 Peter 3:13 involves people who submit to rulership by the new heavens. You can find millions today who are gladly submitting to such rulership. They are benefiting from its educational program and striving to follow its laws found in the Bible. (Isaiah 54:13) These make up the basis of “a new earth” in the sense that they form a global society of all nationalities, languages, and races, and they work together in submission to the reigning King, Jesus Christ. A significant fact is that you can be part of this!—Micah 4:1-4.

Do not feel that this is the end of matters, that we do not have any detailed insight into the future. In fact, as you examine the context of 2 Peter chapter 3, you will find indications of a great change ahead. In 2Pe 3 verses 5 and 6, Peter writes about the Flood of Noah’s day, the Deluge that ended the wicked world back then. In 2Pe 3 verse 7, Peter mentions that “the heavens and the earth that are now,” both the rulerships and the masses of people, are reserved for “the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” This confirms that the phrase “the heavens and the earth that are now” refers, not to the material universe, but to humans and their rulerships.

Peter explains thereafter that the coming day of Jehovah will bring about a great cleansing, making way for the new heavens and new earth mentioned in 2Pe 3 verse 13. Note the end of that verse—“in these righteousness is to dwell.” Does that not suggest that some major changes for the better must occur? Does it not raise the prospect of really new things, a time when humans will find greater enjoyment in living than they do today? If you can see that, then you have gained insight into what the Bible foretells, insight that relatively few have.

But let us go further. We have looked at the occurrence of the phrase “new heavens and a new earth” in Isaiah chapter 65 and another instance in 2 Peter chapter 3. Now turn to Revelation chapter 21, which contains one other occurrence of this expression in the Bible. Again, understanding the setting will help. Two chapters before, in Revelation chapter 19, we find described in vivid symbolism a war—but not a war between hostile nations. On one side is “The Word of God.” You likely recognize that as a title of Jesus Christ. (John 1:1, 14) He is in heaven, and this vision depicts him with his heavenly armies. Battling against whom? The chapter mentions “kings,” “military commanders,” and people of various ranks, both “small ones and great.” This battle involves the coming day of Jehovah, the destruction of wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) Moving on, Revelation chapter 20 opens by describing the removal of “the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan.” This sets the stage for considering Revelation chapter 21.

The apostle John begins with the thrilling words: “I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.” Based on what we have seen in Isaiah chapter 65 and 2 Peter chapter 3, we can be sure that this does not mean replacing the literal heavens and our planet, with its watery deep. As the preceding chapters showed, wicked people and their rulerships, including the invisible ruler Satan, will be removed. Yes, the promise here is of a new system of things involving people on earth.

We are assured of this as we move into this wonderful prophecy. The end of Re 21 verse 3 speaks of the time when God will be with mankind, turning his beneficent attention toward people doing his will. (Ezekiel 43:7) John continues in Re 21 verses 4, 5: “He [Jehovah] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: ‘Look! I am making all things new.’ Also, he says: ‘Write, because these words are faithful and true.’” What an uplifting prophecy!

Pause to savor what the Bible is foretelling. ‘God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.’ That cannot refer to normal tears that wash our sensitive eyes, nor can it refer to tears of joy. No, the tears that God will wipe out are tears caused by suffering, grief, disappointment, hurt, and agony. How can we be sure? Well, this remarkable promise of God links wiping out tears with ‘death, mourning, outcry, and pain being no more.’—John 11:35.
 

Eternally Grateful

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"New Heaven and New Earth" mean something other than what you believe. Planet Earth as well as this physical universe will not be destroyed ever.
Does not matter. We are discussion the reign of Christ on earth before that where Jesus rules with a rod of iron.

let’s get this finished first