Church To Stay On Earth

[marks]

Thirdly, there will be no more marriages in the future kingdom of Christ when He comes. In Matthew 22:30 Jesus said those of the resurrection are 'as the angels of God in heaven', and they do not marry nor take in marriage. Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor.15 that we shall not all sleep, but we shall 'all' be changed. He was including the wicked too because he said also as we (man) have borne the image of the earthy, we (man) shall also bear the image of the heavenly. That's not just about Christ's Church. It's for all peoples, which Isaiah 25 hints at this, and is where Paul got the idea of death being swallowed up in victory.

Isaiah 59
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.

Who are their seed? And their seed's seed? What does that mean?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Secondly, on the "day of the Lord", which is the final day of this present world, and the day that Jesus comes to gather His Church, that day also is the day He brings all the saints with Him to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, as per Zechariah 14. And there in Jerusalem, on earth, is where He and His saints begin to reign over all peoples and nations.

This does not mean Jesus doesn't catch away His church pre-trib.

And in fact, if you have Jesus catching up the church as the elect in Matthew 24, you have to answer who the nations are in Matthew 25, who are gathered and separated, some being declared righteous. But they would have been already gathered. Do you see the conflict?

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect will begin on the day of His return, which is the "day of the Lord". The new heavens and a new earth is not until after the "thousand years". The wicked who perish in the future "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years" won't see the new heavens and new earth.

Study in the OT prophets is really important to understand our Lord's Book of Revelation, and really all of the previous Books of God's Word. I'm a firm believer that if we discipline ourselves in line upon line Bible study, all the way through, then when we struggle later with a certain idea or Bible passage, The Holy Spirit will help us recall what we studied previously. So it's not like 'our' memory at work in it only, but an unlimited memory by The Holy Spirit helping us too. I've felt this when speaking with brethren before, when they mentioned how could I remember so much, and then I had to think about it. Not me, it's The Holy Spirit working.

This is why Lord Jesus told His elect that will be delivered up to not premeditate what they will say in that hour, but to speak what The Holy Spirit gives them to say.

Awesome,
The prayer I say before doing the "memorization" is that The Holy Spirit will indeed bring all things to my mind when the opportunity arises as, my memory is not great. Thank you for that! I DO understand that just memorizing scripture brings us no where really, but line by line seems the best way. Just so hard to know where to start!! I've read the whole NT several times over the years but, not the whole OT although, Psalms and Proverbs are usually my go to in the OT. Think I need a class on how to properly and successfully study

 

[marks]

Fourthly, after Jesus returns, the only... death mentioned to occur is the "second death", which is the casting into the future "lake of fire" at the end of His Millennium reign. There is no more flesh death after Jesus returns. The things of this flesh world will be over and done with, God's consuming fire burning them off this earth at Jesus' coming on the "day of the Lord". That means no more marriage and having children either. You got that idea of flesh re-population from not updating your understanding of the future per New Testament doctrine.

Isaiah 65
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Do you have any thoughts on when this will be fulfilled?

Much love!

 

[Getitright]

One of the false doctrines the Pre-tribulationists have is the false idea that Christ raptures His Church to Heaven prior to the "great tribulation" Jesus foretold of in His Olivet discourse.

Then after Jesus' return to end the tribulation they believe Israel is then restored, on earth, while the Church reigns with Jesus, from Heaven.

That of course is not written in The Word of God, neither is a pre-trib rapture.

Both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles make up Christ's Church, and those believing Israelites don't stop being from the children of Israel just because they believe on Jesus Christ. Can any man (or woman) say any of Christ's Apostles stopped being Israelites when they believed on Jesus? Didn't Jesus say that His 12 Apostles would each sit upon a throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel? That has to mean the Apostles will be on earth to do that after Christ's return! And per Paul in Ephesians 2, those Apostles makeup part of the 'foundation' of the Church. So how can such a stupid doctrine as Darby's dispensationalism be allowed to fool so many brethren?

You want proof where Christ's Church will reign from with Jesus at His coming? It's easy, it is written in Zechariah 14 coupled with the events of the "day of the Lord", which is the final day of this present world when Jesus comes to gather His saints. Jesus' feet are touch down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem on the day of His ONLY coming return, and there it is written He brings all the saints with Him to that spot. That is the "day of the Lord" timing, which is the final day of this present world. The tribulation is over at that point. And that is where Zechariah 14 speaks of His reigning from, on earth.

I believe the reason is Biblical illiteracy. This isn't the only doctrine that the majority have incorrect. The four most universally accepted doctrines in Christianity aren't even Biblical, They would be the, Immortal Soul, Heavenly Destiny, Eternal Conscious Torment, and the Trinity, doctrines.

 

[Davy]

Well on this thread you have continued your pattern of lying about pre-tribbers teach in the mainstream of dispensational eschatology!

We do not claim that unbelieving Israelites inherit the kingdom. I don't know of any major teacher who does!

I am not lying. It's actually 'you' that is lying against the Scriptures with trying to support Pre-tribulationalism and Darby's theories of Dispensationalism. If you had actually understood the Luke 1:31-33 Scripture, you would have admitted that the kingdom Jesus reigns over will be... the 'kingdom of Israel'! Here's more Scripture proof...

John 1:49
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto Him, "Rabbi, Thou art the Son of God; Thou art the King of Israel."
KJV

Isa 44:6
6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and His redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God.
KJV

There is no such thing as a Church throne in Heaven that Jesus will reign from.

The church age ends with the rapture and during the tribulation period 2/3 of all Jews on earth are killed! The remaining 1/3 all accept the Lord to fulfill Zech. 13 and Romans 11. they inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns. They are part of teh sheep that enter into teh kingdom and repopulate the earth!

Men's doctrines again. There is no such thing as Darby's 'Church Ages' idea, that's a doctrine of men. Each one of Christ's Messages to the seven Churches in Revelation are Messages still in effect today for ALL Churches! That cancels Dispensationalist ideas that each one of those Messages represents a certain "Church age".

In Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation. That proves Pre-tribulationalism is false, and that His Church will go through the great tribulation. I noticed you failed to address those Scriptures by Lord Jesus.

And yes it is an earthly throne! Why do you continue to lie about dispensational theology? Is your believe in convenant and replacement theology so weak that you feel you can only bear false witness against those you disagree with?

[/quote]


So now you're claiming Darby didn't teach that Jesus and His Church reigns from Heaven while the kingdom of Israel is restored on earth? I must admit though, I've enjoyed some of the conversations I've had with you folks speaking of how the Church reigns from Heaven can also mean a going back and forth between Heaven and earth for that reign, kind of like a jack-in-the-box reign! Of course no such idea is even written in God's Word.

It all started with John Darby in the 1800s when he, et al, pushed the theory that on Pentecost per Acts 2 established the Church as a distinct separate group from Israel. All later modifications of it are based on that theory.

 

[Davy]

You do understand I'm not saying this, right?

then you are in a small group of Pre-tribulationalists, because the majority of them accept Darby's brand of Dispensationalism about the Millennium too.

 

[Davy]

The reality is that you are making a massive assumption, while in fact you know virtually nothing about me.

Much love!

Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 in conjunction with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. That would make a good first step.

But you'd first have to overcome man's doctrine that says Christ's Olivet discourse isn't for the Church. Well, Jesus was speaking to the foundation of His Church giving that, and that discourse is a direct parallel to the Seals of Rev.6, so I see no excuse to not heed it.

 

[Davy]

You have the church appearing before it is revealed, I don't think it works that way.

What do you suppose that Jesus' hearers would understand when Jesus spoke of the chosen, and the nations? The chosen will be gathered, and the nations will be gathered?

Much love!

You do realize the word church in the Greek (ekkleesia) simply means an assembly or congregation don't you? Both the Old Testament and New Testament make the same distinction about these called out ones (Deuteronomy 7:6; 1 Peter 2:9; Titus 2:14). Apostle Paul even said the children of Israel in the time of Moses were baptized under the cloud and in the sea, and that spiritual Rock that followed them was Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4). And in Galatians 3:6-9, Apostle Paul taught that the Promise by Faith first given to Abraham is the same Faith all those in Christ Jesus have believed, and thus those of Faith have become the children of Abraham. And in Ephesians 1:3-5 Apostle Paul taught those in Christ were chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world.

So how can someone say God's Church only began on Pentecost day? That's an idea from men's seminary schools, not from God's Word. Those ideas are like tethers that will limit one's Bible understanding. And just to show that's what men's doctrines do, some of them debate between Acts 2 and Acts 28 with Paul being the establishing of Christ's Church. That's just ignorance.

 

[marks]

then you are in a small group of Pre-tribulationalists, because the majority of them accept Darby's brand of Dispensationalism about the Millennium too.

Personally, I don't know anyone who is a pre-trib rapture believer who does not think that the church does not return with Jesus at His second coming, to rule with Him on this earth.

Like I said, I don't know a lot about Darby.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You do realize the word church in the Greek (ekkleesia) simply means an assembly or congregation don't you? Both the Old Testament and New Testament make the same distinction about these called out ones (Deuteronomy 7:6; 1 Peter 2:9; Titus 2:14). Apostle Paul even said the children of Israel in the time of Moses were baptized under the cloud and in the sea, and that spiritual Rock that followed them was Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4). And in Galatians 3:6-9, Apostle Paul taught that the Promise by Faith first given to Abraham is the same Faith all those in Christ Jesus have believed, and thus those of Faith have become the children of Abraham. And in Ephesians 1:3-5 Apostle Paul taught those in Christ were chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world.

So how can someone say God's Church only began on Pentecost day? That's an idea from men's seminary schools, not from God's Word. Those ideas are like tethers that will limit one's Bible understanding. And just to show that's what men's doctrines do, some of them debate between Acts 2 and Acts 28 with Paul being the establishing of Christ's Church. That's just ignorance.

Tell me about the two gatherings . . .

Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Who are these groups, "his elect", and, "all nations"? What's happening here?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

What do you suppose that Jesus' hearers would understand when Jesus spoke of the chosen, and the nations? The chosen will be gathered, and the nations will be gathered?

I think I posted some of this already...

Isa 19:23-25
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, "Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel Mine inheritance.
KJV

Not only will Israel then be the kingdom Lord Jesus spoke of, but Israel will only be one-third of it. Assyria and Egypt will each be the other two-thirds.


Isa 56:6-8
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon Mine altar; for Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD Which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, "Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him."
KJV

One may deem the first part of the above as OT history, but that verse in red is still future, and is about the gathering of believing Gentiles to the holy land also with Israel.


Isa 54:2-3
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
KJV

You might struggle with the above parable in the first verse, but its idea is about those who remain spiritually chaste waiting for Christ's coming. In that sense, their wombs remaining barren represent staying a "chaste virgin" in the spiritual sense, for Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2). So that points that 'blessed are the barren' metaphor is about Christ's Church particularly. However, it is pointing to the holy land and the restoration of Israel at the same time.

Acts 15:14-17
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for His name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 "After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom My name is called, saith the Lord, Who doeth all these things."
KJV

What name would that be? It is the name Christian, those who believe on Christ Jesus, His Church.

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV

By that, Apostle Paul showed that the Israel under Christ Jesus is a commonwealth of peoples, and so it is with His Church today, made up of peoples from many nations, for like Paul said there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. This doesn't mean those born of Israel stop being Israelites; it means the believing Gentiles are graffed in with believing Israel, and have become joined with them. And thus like God showed in Isaiah 54, an Old Testament Book that is specifically about His Salvation, the tent of Israel in the holy land will be enlarged to include the believing Gentiles.

Rom 9:23-26
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
KJV

There's one of my favorites, because Apostle Paul spoke that to Roman Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. However, Paul quoted that from the Book of Hosea which was specifically given by God through Hosea to the 'house of Israel', which by that time represented the separated ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel. Paul applied to that believing Gentiles also, and note where verse 26 shows that will take place (i.e., in the holy lands, because that is where God originally told the ten tribes they were 'Lo ami', which means not My people, because of their rebellion against Him).

 

[marks]

I think I posted some of this already...

Isa 19:23-25
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, "Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel Mine inheritance.
KJV

Not only will Israel then be the kingdom Lord Jesus spoke of, but Israel will only be one-third of it. Assyria and Egypt will each be the other two-thirds.


Isa 56:6-8
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon Mine altar; for Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD Which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, "Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him."
KJV

One may deem the first part of the above as OT history, but that verse in red is still future, and is about the gathering of believing Gentiles to the holy land also with Israel.


Isa 54:2-3
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
KJV

You might struggle with the above parable in the first verse, but its idea is about those who remain spiritually chaste waiting for Christ's coming. In that sense, their wombs remaining barren represent staying a "chaste virgin" in the spiritual sense, for Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2). So that points that 'blessed are the barren' metaphor is about Christ's Church particularly. However, it is pointing to the holy land and the restoration of Israel at the same time.

Acts 15:14-17
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for His name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 "After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom My name is called, saith the Lord, Who doeth all these things."
KJV

What name would that be? It is the name Christian, those who believe on Christ Jesus, His Church.

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV

By that, Apostle Paul showed that the Israel under Christ Jesus is a commonwealth of peoples, and so it is with His Church today, made up of peoples from many nations, for like Paul said there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. This doesn't mean those born of Israel stop being Israelites; it means the believing Gentiles are graffed in with believing Israel, and have become joined with them. And thus like God showed in Isaiah 54, an Old Testament Book that is specifically about His Salvation, the tent of Israel in the holy land will be enlarged to include the believing Gentiles.

I'm not sure I can follow your answer, can you simplify this for me?

I've read through this several times, but I'm not seeing an answer, my question was how Jesus' audience would have understood Him as He was prophesying the gathering of the "chosen" and "all nations".

Here's how I answer this. When Jesus said the elect would be gathered, and that that the nations would be gathered, I'm thinking that Jesus' audience, Jewish, would have understood Jesus to be referring to the elect nation, themselves, the Jews, and "all nations" meaning the gentiles. The chosen, and the nations, the Jews, and the gentiles.

Do you agree or disagree?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You do realize the word church in the Greek (ekkleesia) simply means an assembly or congregation don't you? Both the Old Testament and New Testament make the same distinction about these called out ones (Deuteronomy 7:6; 1 Peter 2:9; Titus 2:14). Apostle Paul even said the children of Israel in the time of Moses were baptized under the cloud and in the sea, and that spiritual Rock that followed them was Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4). And in Galatians 3:6-9, Apostle Paul taught that the Promise by Faith first given to Abraham is the same Faith all those in Christ Jesus have believed, and thus those of Faith have become the children of Abraham. And in Ephesians 1:3-5 Apostle Paul taught those in Christ were chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world.

So how can someone say God's Church only began on Pentecost day? That's an idea from men's seminary schools, not from God's Word. Those ideas are like tethers that will limit one's Bible understanding. And just to show that's what men's doctrines do, some of them debate between Acts 2 and Acts 28 with Paul being the establishing of Christ's Church. That's just ignorance.

The congregation in the wilderness?

Or the body of Christ?

Are you saying these are one and the same?

What do you think did begin on Pentecost?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Apostle Paul even said the children of Israel in the time of Moses were baptized under the cloud and in the sea,

And were they baptized into Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 in conjunction with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. That would make a good first step.

But you'd first have to overcome man's doctrine that says Christ's Olivet discourse isn't for the Church. Well, Jesus was speaking to the foundation of His Church giving that, and that discourse is a direct parallel to the Seals of Rev.6, so I see no excuse to not heed it.

Do you think that there was the possibility that if Israel had as a nation received Jesus as their Messiah, that the kingdom would have come to Israel?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Awesome,
The prayer I say before doing the "memorization" is that The Holy Spirit will indeed bring all things to my mind when the opportunity arises as, my memory is not great. Thank you for that! I DO understand that just memorizing scripture brings us no where really, but line by line seems the best way. Just so hard to know where to start!! I've read the whole NT several times over the years but, not the whole OT although, Psalms and Proverbs are usually my go to in the OT. Think I need a class on how to properly and successfully study

Start in Genesis 1 and go all the way through. That's what I recommend.

I have several study Bibles, but the best one I use is the KJV study Bible E.W. Bullinger put together in the 19th century, called The Companion Bible. It's worth having a copy just for the Appendixes in the back. What he did was to put scholarly concordance notes and archaeological history notes in a side margin of the KJV Scripture. Places and names key to the subject he placed white dots over the top of the KJV word that links to a definition note in the margin. He also showed subject outlines of the whole Book, and then for each Chapter so you always know what the subject and object is being spoken of. Also in the OT, it has a lot of Dr. Christian David Ginsberg's translation of Massorah notes which the KJV translators didn't have for their translation. Bullinger didn't put a lot of denominational fluff in the side margin like most study Bibles do, but there is some, since he had succumbed to the pre-trib rapture theory and Darby's dispensationalism, which were popular in 1880s Britain. It's still the best KJV study Bible on the market in my opinion.

 

[Davy]

Isaiah 65
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Do you have any thoughts on when this will be fulfilled?

Much love!

That part in verse 20 is an expression for longevity. Either one believes in 'eternal life' per the New Covenant... through Christ Jesus, or one doesn't.

The new heavens and a new earth happens after the future "lake of fire" event. However, Zechariah 14, Ezekiel 47, and Revelation 22:14-15 reveals the manifesting of God's River back on earth during Christ's 1,000 years reign, including the tree of life. Zechariah 14 reveals some earth changes in the area of Jerusalem with Christ's feet touching down there. The whole earth was once a Paradise when God and His River once were here with His Garden of Eden. Genesis 2 reveals His River flowed out from His Garden to feed four other rivers upon the old earth, two of which still exist in Iraq today.

 

[Davy]

Personally, I don't know anyone who is a pre-trib rapture believer who does not think that the church does not return with Jesus at His second coming, to rule with Him on this earth.

Like I said, I don't know a lot about Darby.

Much love!

Oh, I know plenty that do believe they reign from Heaven.

 

[Davy]

Tell me about the two gatherings . . .

Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Who are these groups, "his elect", and, "all nations"? What's happening here?

Much love!

Have you studied 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 thoroughly? I know pre-trib likes to pull from that chapter a lot, but I find many on pre-trib haven't properly understood it.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

That specific gathering is about the asleep saints Jesus brings with Him on the day of His coming:

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
KJV

That is the specific link to that gathered group in the Matt.24:31 verse. They are gathered in their resurrected bodies, and Paul said the asleep saints resurrect first.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

The Mark 13 example of that gathering is different. It instead is about those still alive on earth being gathered:

1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 tells us those of us still alive on earth will not precede (prevent = beforehand in the Greek) the asleep saints which will resurrect first.

It's also important to understand that event accompanies the 'change' to the "spiritual body" which Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, what Paul called the "image of the heavenly". The word "air" in 1 Thess.4:17 can also mean the 'breath' per the Greek 'aer' (Strong's no.109), pointing to the breath of life spirit body. Basically it mean, on that day, the heavenly dimension is going to be opened up to all peoples. This present existence in a flesh body will be over. That's why Rev.20 doesn't mention a flesh death anymore, but only the "second death" which is the casting into the future "lake of fire", as it was prepared especially for the devil and his angels, and they never had flesh bodies.