Perpetual virginity of Mary!

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Where, and what particular "written" does scripture tell us not to go beyond?[/Quote\]


1corinthians 4:6

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Imperfect human beings guided by the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth (John 16:13)

God's word is the truth. When you go beyond what is written in the scriptures you're going by what your own thoughts tell you to believe. You're not allowing God's Holy Spirit guide you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is a belief that has not one shred of evidence to support it. I would like you to cite one PROTESTANT source that agrees with this myth.

A Visual Diagram of the History of the New Testament Canon

Sources for New Testament Canon Chart (all Protestant):
1) J. D. Douglas, editor, New Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1962 edition, 194-198.

2) F. L. Cross and E. A. Livingstone, editors, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2nd edition, 1983, 232, 300, 309-10, 626, 641, 724, 1049, 1069.

3) Norman L. Geisler & William E. Nix, From God to Us: How We Got Our Bible, Chicago: Moody Press, 1974, 109-12, 117-125.

1. I am not Protestant. So you can’t take that insulting term and put it where it belongs.
2. Rome wrote history so I do not expect history to have anything which would go against her. Considering she murdered what she called heretics for centuries and burnt any records they
May have, if if there ever was something it would not be in existence today
3. I am not a follower of men. If Rome got it wrong and perpetrated this wrong concept of theology by the power of its army. Then millions will have died because they blindly followed a religion and not God (the Jews made this same mistake)

peter called Paul’s writings scripture Peter is my authority not some counsel who Met long after he was martyred

 

[Marymog]

No what you're saying is not true. You could care less what the scriptures say. Such as statements to the effect that Jesus was Mary’s “firstborn” (Lu 2:7), and that Joseph “had no intercourse with her UNTIL she gave birth to a son,” also support the view that Joseph and Mary had other children. (Mt 1:25) Even Nazarene neighbors recognized and identified Jesus as “the brother of James and Joseph and Judas and Simon,” adding, “And his sisters are here with us, are they not?”—Mr 6:3. You could care less about what scripture says. It's not important to you what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down. It's what imperfect humans thoughts and what they say that's more important to you.

Hi Barney,

Once again....I understand that a majority of the Protestant scholars that YOU have personally read support your interpretation of Scripture.

As long as you understand that some Protestant scholars (including the original men of the Reformation) DISAGREE with your interpretation. You have chosen to believe a 500 year interpretation of scholarly men. I have chosen to believe a 2,000 year interpretation of scholarly men.

Sincerely Mary

 

[Marymog]

Yep let’s be like the jews and follow the “many” (jewish religious leaders) and ignore the few. Because the many must be right (smh)

Hi EG,

Soooooo let me see if I have your suggestion correct: Two thousand years ago many of the Jewish religious leaders were against Jesus, wanted him dead or silenced etc. etc.

Obviously those "many religious leaders" were wrong about Jesus. THANKFULLY not all the Jews followed their leaders and some became Christians. They ended up being right and the "many" were wrong.

Fast forward 1,500+ years when some men challenge a 1,500 year teaching of Christianity about the Mother of God and those few men that present the challenge should be listened to? This new teaching on Mary is equivalent to the many Jewish leaders rejecting Jesus and the few accepting Him?

Do I have your theory/suggestion correct?

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It's true there are total nut cases in the Church, just as you have total nut cases that put their elders and prophets on pedestals. Honoring heroes of the faith (Heb. 11) whose life in Christ is exemplary is not putting them on pedestals. St. Paul instructs his followers to be like him as he is like Christ. That's not worship either.

You don't worship Paul, that would be just as ridiculous as Catholics worshipping Mary. We call her "Blessed" because it is a biblical command, not a boast, and not a sentimental request. Mary gave birth the The Living Word, the anti-Mary Christians can't even admit she was a Living Temple, the living Daughter of Zion, The Spouse of the Holy Spirit, the New Eve, the Ark of the New Covenant because they play down or ignore Old Testament types and prophecies.

All of these titles glorify Christ, not Mary, if you could lower your prejudice long enough to see what the Church REALLY teaches. Catholicism is post Messiah Judaism, our "elder brother" whom we have not theologically disowned.

But you give more honor to Paul because he wrote more, which doesn't make sense. BLESSED is almost completely censored from your hymns, sermons and literature by people claiming to follow the Bible while accusing Catholics of not. That's not hypocrisy, it's ignorance.

Why in the world are you attacking me thus? What have I done to offend you thus?

I've acknowledged and respected Catholicism on here, called for the stop of bashing. Yes I pointing out some erroneous individuals because yes, every set of pew have some individuals that are erroneous. Totally acknowledged and respected.

So why the giant attack?

 

[amigo de christo]

Nope

because what you have is their interpretation, you listening to men. When the Bible is clear. It speaks for itself, and if fully capable of teaching the man of God in all ways.

Thats the beauty of it . Who inspired the BIBLE . was it men or God . We know it was GOD .
So never let a man tell you , ye need our hermenutics , our interpreations to be able to grasp it .
NO ya dont . WHAT GOD inspired , HIS SPIRIT can give the understanding too any lamb that loves HIM .
The bible is not all complicated like men of today try and teach us it is . IF a lamb truly loves GOD
GOD will feed them and give them the rightly divided understanding of it in time .
And HE keeps our feet far from those who would try and twist the scriptures .
GOD is in control . And those who do truly love HIM , those who have truly come to Christ , were drawn to Christ ,
Beleive me the SPIRIT guides them . All men must be tested .
And tested every day . Let us learn those bibles well . The LORD is with the sheep . HE leads and HE guides
and HIS sheep will not hear the voice of strangers who twist doctrine to justify mens twisted beliefs .
The SPIRIT is given unto all who truly beleive , It will guide a lamb all the days of its life .
Leaders and such are needful to the body to help build it up , BUT always test them and every one who does speak
and do so , against bible truth . NOW SOUND those praises OUT unto the Glorious KING .

 

[amigo de christo]

Same can be said for you

that’s the problem with many Catholics. They are so convinced they were taught right and have so deep faith in their popes they could not see and error if it looked them in the face (note I said most)

post 148? Al men are to be subject to their parents until they leave and become one with a wife

that has no bearing on this discussion so is nonsensical. Just another way to excuse a false belief system

If i had a dime for every time someone told me something simliar to , ya need to be illumaiated , well all i can say is i would
have great abundance of dimes .
I hear this from jehovas or mormons or catholics or just regular folks . mainly from Buddists if the truth be told .
And yet what they come to ENLIGHTEN me with , seems to twist the plain simple scriptures .
SO i must say , no thanks to the enlightenement of men , BUT PRAISE GOD for the HOLY SPIRIT HE giveth the lambs that keep them safe .
YEA , i say PRAISE GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Same can be said for you

that’s the problem with many Catholics. They are so convinced they were taught right and have so deep faith in their popes they could not see and error if it looked them in the face (note I said most)

post 148? Al men are to be subject to their parents until they leave and become one with a wife

that has no bearing on this discussion so is nonsensical. Just another way to excuse a false belief system

There is a book i read once and it had all the popes listed . It was wrote by a catholic who supportes Rome .
I read it to see the history behind That Church .
I have a simple question . If every pope is the so called vicar of Christ , how come they so often contradicted each other
fought one another and led many a crusade . Now the book does say there was bad popes etc .
But i read all them popes . And they contradicted one another .
Now how come paul , james , jude , peter , john , never taught contraditions towards one anothers teachings .
And HOW come the apostels teachings LINED UP Perfect with JESUS . With HIS Teachings .
THE BIBLE i can vouce for . Men and traditions , yea That fails and often fails big .
There was a reason why both peter and paul said what they did about Biblical sound doctrine .
FOR the scriptures TRULY do make us wise unto salvation . JESUS words contain a beauty so pure
that it can clear the eyes , unclog the ears of any lamb . Cling to that bible my friend .
Paul warned us , near the end , specially near the end , as DID JESUS and peter and some others ,
many deceivers would abound . The time would come when many would no longer truly endure SOUND DOCTRINE .
WELL , WE IN THEM DAYS BIG TIME . Cling to JESUS , read those lovely bibles and HEED the LAMB . Testing all who do speak or teach .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let us all start fresh in the Bible . yesterday is gone , today is a new day .
My prayer is that all would begin afresh and anew in the bible and be refreshed with the pure words of Truth .
Oh it pierces deep into the soul . Let the Glorious LORD be praised .

 

[Candidus]

Fast forward 1,500+ years when some men challenge a 1,500 year teaching of Christianity about the Mother of God and those few men that present the challenge should be listened to? This new teaching on Mary is equivalent to the many Jewish leaders rejecting Jesus and the few accepting Him?

Fast rewind 1,500 years+ and see why such heresy was rejected by Bible-believing Christians then and fast forward to today. Nothing endures and propagates quite like false doctrine! Jewish rejection of the Messiah has no comparison to rejecting the Heresy of making some woman the Mother of God. One is rejecting truth, and the other is rejection of Heathen Roman Catholic lies and heresy.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

Soooooo let me see if I have your suggestion correct: Two thousand years ago many of the Jewish religious leaders were against Jesus, wanted him dead or silenced etc. etc.

Obviously those "many religious leaders" were wrong about Jesus. THANKFULLY not all the Jews followed their leaders and some became Christians. They ended up being right and the "many" were wrong.

Fast forward 1,500+ years when some men challenge a 1,500 year teaching of Christianity about the Mother of God and those few men that present the challenge should be listened to? This new teaching on Mary is equivalent to the many Jewish leaders rejecting Jesus and the few accepting Him?

Do I have your theory/suggestion correct?

Mary

see you missed the whole point

4000 years ago god gave the jews his law his word and his blessing. 2000 years later the truth of what God gave them had been so distorted by so many leaders for so many centuries (including being wiped out by Syria and Babylon And still under Roman rule for her sins) that they rejected what the law showed about Jesus (as Jesus said if they believed Moses they would believe him)

much in the same way Christ gave the church with the leaders in Jerusalem and Paul to the gentiles) and within 300 years the same thing happened. The truth of what God gave was so perverted that even today we are still having these discussions. But like the jews. Who trusted the leaders their history their traditions and their priesthood. Roman Catholics used the same excuses (their history, their traditions And their priesthood (namely the pope) to do the same things the jews did 2000 years ago

and like jews then and even today. Fight anyone who claims they are wrong with the same excuses

 

[theefaith]

Yes indeed . sing to the glorious king . And there is only one mediator between GOD and men , the man Christ JESUS .
If mary was a mediator , paul , peter and all others never said so . THEY SAID JESUS ONLY .
You know how it is said that we will judge even the angels . Mary herself and peter himself will also judge
And rest assured i bet peter tells the popes , I WAS never POPE and MARY might even say , YALL should have been praying TO GOD
and HEEDING the SON . They gonna tear that doctrine apart on judgment day .
Just keeping it as real as i can . Rather odd they say peter was the first pope . YET to me , IF we read the bible ,
we see the apostels seemed to be all equals . If peter had been ruler over them , you think it might have been mentioned at least once .
SOmeone would have said , KISS the ring of peter , HE IS the vicar . YALL , flee rome and never look back .
And if we read what mary said to the servants , SHE said HEED HIM . MARY is blessed . THAT IS Truth
But what the catholic church has done , MARY will be judging , as will all the saints One day . I say we cling to BIBLES
and learn JESUS well and the apostles well . I got a feeling a few might be agreeing with that too .

How can it be any clearer?? NO OTHER NAME BUT JESUS CHRIST!

There is only one name on savior but blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God is the mother of our salvation!

Two reasons why Mary is the mother of our salvation!

1: Because Jesus Christ is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother!

2: Because she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

 

[ChristisGod]

In Mary is all our hope of salvation!

thats fiction , the world of make belief- disneyland where fantasy comes to life in ones own imagination.

do you work at disneyland ?

Now back to the world of reality !

Got Scripture ?

 

[Marymog]

Fast rewind 1,500 years+ and see why such heresy was rejected by Bible-believing Christians then and fast forward to today. Nothing endures and propagates quite like false doctrine! Jewish rejection of the Messiah has no comparison to rejecting the Heresy of making some woman the Mother of God. One is rejecting truth, and the other is rejection of Heathen Roman Catholic lies and heresy.

Hi Candidus,

The Protoevangelium of James, which is a Christian document from the 2nd Century, speaks of Mary’s virginity before giving birth, the miraculous way in which she gave birth, and her physical virginity even after giving birth.

What is the earliest Christian document YOU can provide that supports your opinion?

Historical Mary

 

[Mungo]

God's word is the truth. When you go beyond what is written in the scriptures you're going by what your own thoughts tell you to believe. You're not allowing God's Holy Spirit guide you.

God's word is truth but your personal and fallible interpretation may not be.

 

[Mungo]

1corinthians 4:6

Thank you.
I asked "what particular "written" does scripture tell us not to go beyond?"
I ask because there appears to be different understanding of that.

 

[theefaith]

thats fiction , the world of make belief- disneyland where fantasy comes to life in ones own imagination.

do you work at disneyland ?

Now back to the world of reality !

Got Scripture ?

Lk 2:30
Jesus is our salvation and He was in Her for 9 months and Lk 1:28 says The Lord is with thee! So it is true!

Two reasons why Mary is the mother of our salvation!

1: Because Jesus Christ is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother!

2: Because she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

 

[Marymog]

see you missed the whole point

4000 years ago god gave the jews his law his word and his blessing. 2000 years later the truth of what God gave them had been so distorted by so many leaders for so many centuries (including being wiped out by Syria and Babylon And still under Roman rule for her sins) that they rejected what the law showed about Jesus (as Jesus said if they believed Moses they would believe him)

much in the same way Christ gave the church with the leaders in Jerusalem and Paul to the gentiles) and within 300 years the same thing happened. The truth of what God gave was so perverted that even today we are still having these discussions. But like the jews. Who trusted the leaders their history their traditions and their priesthood. Roman Catholics used the same excuses (their history, their traditions And their priesthood (namely the pope) to do the same things the jews did 2000 years ago

and like jews then and even today. Fight anyone who claims they are wrong with the same excuses

Hi EG,

I believe I did get your point. The majority of the Jewish leadership "rejected what the law showed about Jesus". That is the gist of what I said in post #165 soooo I think we are on the same page!

Your theory is that Catholics used history, traditions and priesthood to make the same mistake the Jews did?

Scripture says "stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." The Church holds fast to traditions but you say they shouldn't do it!!

The Church has a "priesthood" (Church hierarchy) but you reject hierarchy even though Scripture clearly speaks of a hierarchy in the Church.

Fascinating......

 

[theefaith]

Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!
God - Christ - Peter - the apostles - the apostles successors - the people

The nature of authority is hierarchy!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

(None of the so called reformers were apostles)