John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

[Tong2020]

So right after Jesus said seven times to eat his flesh he then renounces what he just said and says "His" flesh is on no avail. Just joking... don't eat my flesh..

Nope he said "the" flesh, not his my friend.

Who is saying that Jesus renounces what He said regarding the eating of His flesh? And who is saying that in verse 63 the flesh there refers to His flesh? Those are strawman arguments Truthcampaign.

The Lord is perfect and sinless. His flesh is holy and pure. His flesh and spirit rose from the dead. Was his flesh on the cross of no help or benefit? Jesus is referring to “our” sinful flesh. The Lord is saying, it is no help or benefit to feed “our” flesh that dies and withers away. “His” resurrected flesh and blood feeds our spirit (soul), which gives life.

<<<Was his flesh on the cross of no help or benefit?>>

Can you explain your question a bit and give it some context?

<<<“His” resurrected flesh and blood feeds our spirit (soul), which gives life.>>>

Please cite scriptures that say or effectively say what you say there.

Tong
R1191

 

[bbyrd009]

And for sure, I will be agreeing to those which are taught by scriptures and disagree to those which do not.

well or at least the ones you like and agree with eh, like everyone else?

And the opinion that those chosen by God for salvation were chosen based on God knowing ahead that they will believe, I find to be not taught in scriptures, unless there are scriptures to show. So, I asked that such scriptures be cited that I may consider them.

and wadr they were, and you didnt, which imo there is nothing wrong with that, but also dont kid yourself, as they may be interpreted exactly like that

 

[Tong2020]

well or at least the ones you like and agree with eh, like everyone else?

I guess you don't like my statement "And for sure, I will be agreeing to those which are taught by scriptures and disagree to those which do not."

and wadr they were, and you didnt, which imo there is nothing wrong with that, but also dont kid yourself, as they may be interpreted exactly like that

If you will kindly cite scriptures that say or effectively say that the election of God of people for salvation was based on God knowing ahead that they will believe. Then let's see what they actually say. I hope you don't find anything wrong with that.

Tong
R1192

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ephesians 1:4 say believers were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Do you agree ?

and here as well :

2 Thessalonians 2:13 because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.

God's plan for a church of people chosen on the basis of faith in God, not works, is from before time began. He just happens to know through his foreknowledge who those are who will be created who will believe and be chosen and become a part of that church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Please cite scriptures where election was based on the foreknowledge of God of one's believing in the future, that is, that they were chosen based on God knowing ahead that they will believe.

People are not chosen based on God's foreknowledge. Election is based on having faith in God, not by earning it through works of righteousness, and also not on the basis of God's foreknowledge whatever that means.

 

[Tong2020]

God's plan for a church of people chosen on the basis of faith in God, not works, is from before time began. He just happens to know through his foreknowledge who those are who will be created who will believe and be chosen and become a part of that church.

That is in direct disagreement with:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Tong
R1193

 

[Tong2020]

People are not chosen based on God's foreknowledge. Election is based on having faith in God, not by earning it through works of righteousness, and also not on the basis of God's foreknowledge whatever that means.

Please cite scriptures that say or effectively say that the election of God of people for salvation was based on having faith in God.

Tong
R1194

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is in direct disagreement with:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Tong
R1193

How is a person chosen who does not exist yet? The same way the Christ who had yet to be born of Mary was crucified. I don't find that hard to understand.

 

[Philip James]

Please point where in that verse does it say or even say in effect that the wedding feast of the Lamb of God happens in breaking bread and eating supper in remembrance of the last supper that Jesus had with His disciples?

We are made one body by being united with Christ through participation in the Eucharist.

And the two (Christ and His bride) are made one flesh...

The one who has the bride is the bridegroom; the best man, who stands and listens for him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made complete.

Peace!

 

[Philip James]

That happens when the Spirit comes into a person at salvation.

Hello Ferris,

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

How else can we be made one flesh with Him, than to receive His flesh?

At every Mass you have the Groom offering Himself to His bride and she receiving Him..

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Please cite scriptures that say or effectively say that the election of God of people for salvation was based on having faith in God.

Tong
R1194

Romans 11:5-6

Election by grace (grace, of course, being through faith Ephesians 2:8-9), not through works of merit.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hello Ferris,

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

How else can we be made one flesh with Him, than to receive His flesh?

At every Mass you have the Groom offering Himself to His bride and she receiving Him..

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

By believing.

Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 2:5

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thought that happened when God adopts us

 

[Tong2020]

How is a person chosen who does not exist yet? The same way the Christ who had yet to be born of Mary was crucified. I don't find that hard to understand.

That is obviously not possible with man, but not with God. But, not because of that, that I believe that those who are being saved are chosen for salvation according to the following scriptures:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Your issue is not with me really but with those scriptures.

May I ask, what is your understanding of "chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth"?

Tong
R1196

 

[Tong2020]

We are made one body by being united with Christ through participation in the Eucharist.

And the two (Christ and His bride) are made one flesh...

The one who has the bride is the bridegroom; the best man, who stands and listens for him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made complete.

Peace!

Evidently, you can't point where in that verse does it say or even say in effect that the wedding feast of the Lamb of God happens in breaking bread and eating supper in remembrance of the last supper that Jesus had with His disciples. Well, that apparently settles this issue.

Tong
R1197

 

[Ferris Bueller]

May I ask, what is your understanding of "chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth"?

We get chosen by God to be saved through belief in the truth and by the power of the Spirit. That's what the verse says. As opposed to being chosen to be saved through the merit of good works.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said:
Please cite scriptures that say or effectively say that the election of God of people for salvation was based on having faith in God.

Romans 11:5-6

Election by grace (grace, of course, being through faith Ephesians 2:8-9), not through works of merit.

Romans 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I am sorry, but those scriptures does not say or effectively say that the election of God of people for salvation was based on having faith in God. Besides, with regards Romans 11:5-6, the context of the passage even is with regards the 'physical' Israel or ethnic nation Israel, the Israelites, the election of grace pertaining to a remnant of the ethnic nation Israel. With regards Ephesians 2:8-9, it says "by grace you have been saved by grace you have been saved", meaning to say that salvation is by God's grace and that this grace of salvation is through faith. Besides, there is nothing in that passage that speaks about election.

Tong
R1198

 

[Waiting on him]

Tong2020 said:
Please cite scriptures that say or effectively say that the election of God of people for salvation was based on having faith in God.

Romans 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I am sorry, but those scriptures does not say or effectively say that the election of God of people for salvation was based on having faith in God. Besides, with regards Romans 11:5-6, the context of the passage even is with regards the 'physical' Israel or ethnic nation Israel, the Israelites, the election of grace pertaining to a remnant of the ethnic nation Israel. With regards Ephesians 2:8-9, it says "by grace you have been saved by grace you have been saved", meaning to say that salvation is by God's grace and that this grace of salvation is through faith. Besides, there is nothing in that passage that speaks about election.

Tong
R1198

So where does faith come from?

 

[ChristisGod]

So where does faith come from?

here are a few scriptures telling us where faith comes from:


Romans 12:3
3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Galatians 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires


Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


Ephesians 6:23
Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 4:7
7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?


Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him


2 Peter 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 1:14
The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

(faith is given out by God along with his grace)

Acts 18:27 - When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed

(it is through God's grace that people believe)

Acts 13:48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life, believed.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Tong2020]

We get chosen by God to be saved through belief in the truth and by the power of the Spirit. That's what the verse says. As opposed to being chosen to be saved through the merit of good works.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Paul said "we are bound to give thanks to God always for you". Why? Pauls tells us why, saying "because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth". They are bound to thank God for choosing them for salvation, even from the beginning, that is to say, even before they were actually converted, or even while they were yet sinners. And why they thank God for that obviously means that it is God who saved them and that that is not based or conditioned on anything other than on God's choosing of them for salvation. According to Paul, they were chosen for salvation through (by means of, not because of) "sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth". That is not quite the same as saying "We get chosen by God to be saved through belief in the truth and by the power of the Spirit." We don't get chosen to be saved, rather we are chosen for salvation.

Tong
R1199