The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[BarneyFife]

Hi Barney,
"I knew this would turn into a malicious gang war. Us and them, just like the world."

It sure seems we need to get rid of John 13:35. I too am weary of all the snipes and barbs just because we do not all agree on every thing. Many of us thought we could find a kind of fellowship here but, that seems more and more being tossed to the wayside. Christians are not to be without one another for encouragement, prayer, worship and breaking bread, among other things but...at this day and age I sure do see many Christians "waxing cold". Church's are no different unless you are in the cliques. Never been hurt or used more than I have by so called "Christians". What a shame it has become. Can we be and remain Christians without true fellowship? It's lonely, and sad but, I think it can be done...Just us, God and whoever He tells us who needs help. I will be there every time, but not to try to make "friends". Getting so tired of the knife in the back and dishonesty of those who go by His name.

Hello, Nancy. I consider you a friend simply because you are friendly to me. The coming together in the unity of the faith is foretold in Scripture so, even though we must endure the shaking and sifting out of those who love division, it will eventually come to pass. I've been on several of these forum websites and, as different as they may seem, they all have this one thing in common: Love of division. Those who cherish enmity will go out from us before Christ returns for His bride. I struggle with the temptation to be hurtful, myself. I too often stumble and fall, but God's grace picks me up. I appreciate your presence and positive influence here. It checks and inspires me. I hope this encourages you.

 

[Nancy]

Hello, Nancy. I consider you a friend simply because you are friendly to me. The coming together in the unity of the faith is foretold in Scripture so, even though we must endure the shaking and sifting out of those who love division, it will eventually come to pass. I've been on several of these forum websites and, as different as they may seem, they all have this one thing in common: Love of division. Those who cherish enmity will go out from us before Christ returns for His bride. I struggle with the temptation to be hurtful, myself. I too often stumble and fall, but God's grace picks me up. I appreciate your presence and positive influence here. It checks and inspires me. I hope this encourages you.

It does Barney, encourage me that is, ty. I've looked into and even joined other Christian sites but, they are all the same and why wouldn't they be, people are people! Looking forward to the day when we truly ARE all as one in Him. Then it will no longer seem as though some were baptized in lemon juice.

 

[BarneyFife]

Salvation occurs the second you Believe ....you confuse that with Sanctification, which is God fulfilling His Promise to “ conform us into the Image Of His Son.....that takes time—- a Lifetime....

I simply do not agree with your position, and your claiming that those who don't agree with you are devoid of the Spirit is disgraceful behavior for one who claims to be converted.

 

[BarneyFife]

It does Barney, encourage me that is, ty. I've looked into and even joined other Christian sites but, they are all the same and why wouldn't they be, people are people! Looking forward to the day when we truly ARE all as one in Him. Then it will no longer seem as though some were baptized in lemon juice.

I think some might have gotten vinegar.

 

[Heyzeus]

Lets take a look at the text in question:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. (2) Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. (3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. (4) For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. (5) Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. (6) For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. (7) Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

This passage discusses the Christian’s duty to submit to civil government. The teaching here is actually an expanded version of Christ’s words, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s" (Matthew 22:21).

Everyone should submit to the "governing authorities" (human rulers). We must submit to them because God is the source of all authority and He has established existing rulers. This does not mean God chooses, appoints, or approves every individual leader (although no one can exercise power unless God allows it). Rather, God has established the general principle of human government.

You are ignoring - and in denial of some of what is stated in this passage and the ramifications of what is stated - and are pretending that God is some kind of idiot.

"1)Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.......... 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

What part of the above in bold do you not understand .. Do you think God is stupid enough to tell folks they must not rebel against Hitler .. because he is there for their own Good - and that this stupid God would not be smart enough to know that this passage would be used (and was used) by nasty totalitarian dictators in the future.

I don't believe that God is an idiot - but, you are welcome to believe otherwise.

Your claim with respect to Matt is abject nonsense - having nothing to do with this passage - a grasp for a straw that doesn't exist.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But you ignore all the other texts in the Bible that suggest salvation is a process or a journey, or like a race and then treat people who bring them up like atheists or even criminals. The spirit which actuates aggressors like you is obvious. My taste for it is wearing thin. I knew this would turn into a malicious gang war. Us and them, just like the world.

You ignore context

Paul said I have been saved

other passages say I am being saved

yet others say I will be saved

all three types of salvation can NOT be the same otherwise we can throw the Bible out because it does not know what it’s talking about

Jesus said I have eternal life

Paul said I have been saved

John said I have eternal life

now either they are all true. Or they lied

according to you I have non of those things. That would mean they lied

I will be saved. From this body of death from this sinful nature from many things

I am currently saved from the penalty of sin.
Are you?

 

[Heyzeus]

I am currently saved from the penalty of sin.
Are you?

You don't know this. Sorry- but you simply don't. Do you think you will not go through Judgement - the Bible suggests otherwise.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Who's worried? Christ is the Author and Finisher of my faith. More straw men.

Your the one who stated you can be perfect not me

you can’t seem to stick on topic

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi Barney,
"I knew this would turn into a malicious gang war. Us and them, just like the world."

It sure seems we need to get rid of John 13:35. I too am weary of all the snipes and barbs just because we do not all agree on every thing. Many of us thought we could find a kind of fellowship here but, that seems more and more being tossed to the wayside. Christians are not to be without one another for encouragement, prayer, worship and breaking bread, among other things but...at this day and age I sure do see many Christians "waxing cold". Church's are no different unless you are in the cliques. Never been hurt or used more than I have by so called "Christians". What a shame it has become. Can we be and remain Christians without true fellowship? It's lonely, and sad but, I think it can be done...Just us, God and whoever He tells us who needs help. I will be there every time, but not to try to make "friends". Getting so tired of the knife in the back and dishonesty of those who go by His name.

Not sure how a disagreement is a malicious gang war

Paul said I have been saved not by works but by Gods
Mercy

he also said It is by grace I have been saved based on my faith. As a gift if God

So I asked I paul lied. And what I got back was a mocking response

sometimes we need to look in the mirror

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Who died and left you the Decider of valid questions? There is no difference, anyway. If I should not be a sinner then I can be a saint. It is simple logic.
It is written:
These things I write to you that ye sin not.

The fact that I sin is no proof that I must do so.

Talk about attitude

the discussion is on if a man can be perfect (sinless) ir not

do you think a man can live in total sinless perfection?

if you do, then I can not agree and have been showing you why

mid you do not then you proved I am right

kill your attitude man. Your not helping your case. If you get mad everyone someone disagrees with you your in the wrong place

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Twirling around crying "All scripture is inspired" - does not make it so.
God using evil men to punish Israel - does not make it so
You claiming to now what God us up to these days -- does not make it so.

But- OK - let us assume your claim is true.

A) Children should be killed for the sins of their parents
B) Children should not be killed for the sins of their parents

Which is inspired -and which is not.

*Note - responding "Both are inspired" - makes a joke out of the term Inspired - and a joke out of the Bible - so to try to avoid such an answer.

Forgive me man. It seems like you are out to discredit My word
All scripture is god breathed

I take that as fact. If you do not. Well that’s to bad

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don't know this. Sorry- but you simply don't. Do you think you will not go through Judgement - the Bible suggests otherwise.

John said I write these to you so you may know you have eternal
Life

so yeah I do know

Paul said I have been justified I have been saved I have the spirit as my pledge. He said to be absent from my body is to be present with the lord. Jesus said I have eternal life and I will never die

Again if you think otherwise. Well that’s your right.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have a question as to the meaning of the following scripture (in the NLT):

Col 2:11, When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.[fn]

Is this translated accurately?

And if so, what does it say concerning the subject of sinless perfection?

 

[Rudometkin]

But you ignore all the other texts in the Bible that suggest salvation is a process or a journey, or like a race and then treat people who bring them up like atheists or even criminals.

Redemption was Christ's journey, and He says that is finished.

So it is done. We look to Christ alone. Is there something specific that is leading you astray from this?

 

[user]

You are ignoring - and in denial of some of what is stated in this passage and the ramifications of what is stated - and are pretending that God is some kind of idiot.
What part of the above in bold do you not understand .. Do you think God is stupid enough to tell folks they must not rebel against Hitler .. because he is there for their own Good - and that this stupid God would not be smart enough to know that this passage would be used (and was used) by nasty totalitarian dictators in the future.
I don't believe that God is an idiot - but, you are welcome to believe otherwise.
Your claim with respect to Matt is abject nonsense - having nothing to do with this passage - a grasp for a straw that doesn't exist.

Romans 13:2 "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

Those who resist human government are actually resisting God. This will result in their judgment.

The KJV uses the word damnation , but originally that English word simply meant "judgment" without necessarily referring to eternal punishment.

The judgment spoken of probably refers to punishment inflicted by the government, acting as God’s agent, as in verse 4...

Verse 4 - "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil"

The civil ruler is not necessarily God’s servant in every respect, but only insofar as he helps to keep order in society and to punish lawbreakers.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Rudometkin,

Welcome to the Boards!

May I ask you what is the inspiration for your screen name?

 

[Rudometkin]

Hi @Rudometkin,

Welcome to the Boards!

May I ask you what is the inspiration for your screen name?

Thanks.

Russian family name.

 

[farouk]

Redemption was Christ's journey, and He says that is finished.

So it is done. We look to Christ alone. Is there something specific that is leading you astray from this?

@Rudometkin Indeed it is a finished work. Romans 8.38-39 would indeed bear out the eternal security of the true believer. John's First Epistle gives strong assurance to the believer in the Son of God.

 

[BarneyFife]

You ignore context

Paul said I have been saved

other passages say I am being saved

yet others say I will be saved

all three types of salvation can NOT be the same otherwise we can throw the Bible out because it does not know what it’s talking about

Jesus said I have eternal life

Paul said I have been saved

John said I have eternal life

now either they are all true. Or they lied

according to you I have non of those things. That would mean they lied

I will be saved. From this body of death from this sinful nature from many things

I am currently saved from the penalty of sin.
Are you?

Absolutely, but I still have to deal with the power and presence of sin. Don't you? I suppose there is no possibility that it is you who might be disregarding context.

 

[BarneyFife]

Talk about attitude

the discussion is on if a man can be perfect (sinless) ir not

do you think a man can live in total sinless perfection?

if you do, then I can not agree and have been showing you why

mid you do not then you proved I am right

kill your attitude man. Your not helping your case. If you get mad everyone someone disagrees with you your in the wrong place

Nice deflective maneuver