4) Who led Israel after the death of Joshua and the deaths of all the elders who remembered what God had done for them in Egypt and in the wilderness?
Perpetual virginity of Mary!
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Hi @Mungo , I'll address this big picture---
Obviously there are many things that are true with are not stated explicitly (or remotely) in the Bible. That's a very obvious fact.
The more specific question is "are there things which are part of God's saving Truths that are not written in the Bible?"
For Catholics and other non-sola scriptura people, the answer is "Yes". And this opens the door for other discussions like whether or not Mary was forever a virgin. I'm personally fall into the 'other non-sola scriptura' category.
However For a Sola Scriptura person, the answer is a big "No." Therefore, the lack of a Bible verse explicitly stating "Mary was forever a virgin" means it's not part of God's Truth and the discussion is just done.
That different way of approaching things is the real important point of divergence that supersedes the question of any Marian doctrines.
Then I'm not understanding your discussion with @Spurgeon's Girl (whom I'm assuming is Sola Scriptura adherent).
Spurgeon's Girl is (presumably) Sola Scriptura and only accepts things which are explicitly written in the Bible as being part of God's Truths. Marian doctrines are not explicitly stated, and hence not believed.
It's a done discussion.
If you're aware of this, why the continuing effort into a long discussion where you know she's never going to see your position as being part of God's Truths of Sola Scriptura?
Well that is false.
The term for the science of Biology was not used until nearly 2,000 years after Jesus' birth.
If you actually knew what biological meant, it does not line up with Scripture.
No need to consider your conclusion Based on a False premise, as is your first point.
Glory to God,
Taken
Yes I can.
And no you have not revealed any Scriptural knowledge, that Mary and Joseph Would Defy or were Instructed to Defy God...By Not Multiplying and Reproducing children.
WHAT Adam named the Woman Given Him..
Irrelevant.
Behold - is the KEY-...
Behold means LOOK and SEE.
Basic 101 Bible-
Men can not See God!
Men can not See Gods Power!
Men can SEE the Word of God, in the Likeness as a Man, called, the Son of Man...
Not News, Mary birthed the Son of Man.
Not News What Mary could SEE was the Son of Man.
Not News, Jesus Appointed "a Man" to watch after The Woman who birthed the Son of Man, as a Trusted servant of the Son of Man.
• Consider Jewish Law and Customs
WHO SEES after the well being of a Jewish Widow and her household?
Her adult eldest son.. her Sibling Brothers...Her Uncles...you go through the line of succession of who is available and capable.
• who was available to SEE after Widowed Mary and her household (that were With her at the Crucifixion)...
• The Son of man, her eldest, about to Die!
He arranges WHO He chose to See After Widowed Mary and her household.
Yes He was, and no He did not speak in your terms of simplistic understanding. He spoke to him in Terms of Jewish Understanding of Customs, they knew and you do not.
No.
Jesus was MAKING Mary what? Nothing.
Jesus was MAKING "John" an overseer of well being for Mary and her household!
It is the Understanding of Fullness of God...
In Brief;
Adam's Creation is Fact.
The Knowledge surrounding Adams Creation.....IS FORESHADOWING!!
Foreshadowing is not Prophecy, but rather an indication to PAY attention, because something SiMILAR will be revealed.
Adam- the Man- Life
Then the Woman "helper". "Out of Adam-"
The Man and Woman- ONE
Then the Man and Woman Have Offspring "in then out" of the Woman.
The Man controls the House
The Woman nurtures the Children, according to The Man's WORD and POWER.
(Man called, husband, head, Father...etc.
Female called Woman ,helper, wife, Mother, etc.)
Foreshadow revealed-
God- man, husband, head, Father, Spirit etc.
Female- woman, helper, (nurturer go between OF children and Father)
Called, woman, Son, Word. Power. Spirit. etc
"Comes out of God"...yet Joined ONE.
The Foreshadow of Adam and the Woman and their offspring ...
Parallel ...God and Son and human Children being MADE into Spiritual Children.
What you Should have Learned... IS There IS NO sex or copulation, of Literal Female Gender regarding "Gods Spiritual Household."
Once a Person Is Transformed, There IS no Female Gender "go between" necessary... a Transformed Person HAS No female gender identity or need for an intercessory to God the Father...they have Direct Access.
God the Father is The Fullness...
* Female gender, Mommies are for humans on Earth
* There is No Female Queen Sitting In Heaven taking intercessory requests from humans ON Earth.
* Heaven IS GODS THRONE
God is Not A QUEEN. God Does NOT Have A QUEEN.
God IS KING.
Jesus is True to His Word.
Jesus IS a man's Intercessory (mommy of sorts for UNSaved, UNreborn Human men)...
They...can Go Through Jesus, to Receive Gods Gifts.
•• Intercessory Jesus: (for the Unsaved)
John 14:
[13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide wit
Saved and Quickened Men have Already WENT "Through" Jesus, and Received Gods Gifts.
They no longer Go "THROUGH" Jesus...
They Go "TO" Jesus...Because, they have Learned, Jesus...IS the FULLNESS of God!
And Know....they CAN NOT YET SEE HIM... until ... their Body is Raised uncorruptable.
It Foreknowledge...that it Will come to pass, they Will SEE their God IN Spirit As HE IS.
•• Jesus the Lord God (of the Saved & quickened/Born Again)
John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and "we" (Father,Son, Holy Spirit) will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 16:
[26] At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
God Has no Mother, Wife, Queen
* Becoming a son of God...gains no one a Mother or Queen.
Female Gender has no place In Gods Spiritual Kingdom/ World.
God is King of His Creations, Throne and Father to All of His adopted sons.
Glory to God,
Taken
The term for the science of Biology was not used until nearly 2,000 years after Jesus' birth.
If you actually knew what biological meant, it does not line up with Scripture.
No need to consider your conclusion Based on a False premise, as is your first point.
Glory to God,
Taken
Yes I can.
And no you have not revealed any Scriptural knowledge, that Mary and Joseph Would Defy or were Instructed to Defy God...By Not Multiplying and Reproducing children.
WHAT Adam named the Woman Given Him..
Irrelevant.
Behold - is the KEY-...
Behold means LOOK and SEE.
Basic 101 Bible-
Men can not See God!
Men can not See Gods Power!
Men can SEE the Word of God, in the Likeness as a Man, called, the Son of Man...
Not News, Mary birthed the Son of Man.
Not News What Mary could SEE was the Son of Man.
Not News, Jesus Appointed "a Man" to watch after The Woman who birthed the Son of Man, as a Trusted servant of the Son of Man.
• Consider Jewish Law and Customs
WHO SEES after the well being of a Jewish Widow and her household?
Her adult eldest son.. her Sibling Brothers...Her Uncles...you go through the line of succession of who is available and capable.
• who was available to SEE after Widowed Mary and her household (that were With her at the Crucifixion)...
• The Son of man, her eldest, about to Die!
He arranges WHO He chose to See After Widowed Mary and her household.
Yes He was, and no He did not speak in your terms of simplistic understanding. He spoke to him in Terms of Jewish Understanding of Customs, they knew and you do not.
No.
Jesus was MAKING Mary what? Nothing.
Jesus was MAKING "John" an overseer of well being for Mary and her household!
It is the Understanding of Fullness of God...
In Brief;
Adam's Creation is Fact.
The Knowledge surrounding Adams Creation.....IS FORESHADOWING!!
Foreshadowing is not Prophecy, but rather an indication to PAY attention, because something SiMILAR will be revealed.
Adam- the Man- Life
Then the Woman "helper". "Out of Adam-"
The Man and Woman- ONE
Then the Man and Woman Have Offspring "in then out" of the Woman.
The Man controls the House
The Woman nurtures the Children, according to The Man's WORD and POWER.
(Man called, husband, head, Father...etc.
Female called Woman ,helper, wife, Mother, etc.)
Foreshadow revealed-
God- man, husband, head, Father, Spirit etc.
Female- woman, helper, (nurturer go between OF children and Father)
Called, woman, Son, Word. Power. Spirit. etc
"Comes out of God"...yet Joined ONE.
The Foreshadow of Adam and the Woman and their offspring ...
Parallel ...God and Son and human Children being MADE into Spiritual Children.
What you Should have Learned... IS There IS NO sex or copulation, of Literal Female Gender regarding "Gods Spiritual Household."
Once a Person Is Transformed, There IS no Female Gender "go between" necessary... a Transformed Person HAS No female gender identity or need for an intercessory to God the Father...they have Direct Access.
God the Father is The Fullness...
* Female gender, Mommies are for humans on Earth
* There is No Female Queen Sitting In Heaven taking intercessory requests from humans ON Earth.
* Heaven IS GODS THRONE
God is Not A QUEEN. God Does NOT Have A QUEEN.
God IS KING.
Jesus is True to His Word.
Jesus IS a man's Intercessory (mommy of sorts for UNSaved, UNreborn Human men)...
They...can Go Through Jesus, to Receive Gods Gifts.
•• Intercessory Jesus: (for the Unsaved)
John 14:
[13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide wit
Saved and Quickened Men have Already WENT "Through" Jesus, and Received Gods Gifts.
They no longer Go "THROUGH" Jesus...
They Go "TO" Jesus...Because, they have Learned, Jesus...IS the FULLNESS of God!
And Know....they CAN NOT YET SEE HIM... until ... their Body is Raised uncorruptable.
It Foreknowledge...that it Will come to pass, they Will SEE their God IN Spirit As HE IS.
•• Jesus the Lord God (of the Saved & quickened/Born Again)
John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and "we" (Father,Son, Holy Spirit) will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 16:
[26] At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
God Has no Mother, Wife, Queen
* Becoming a son of God...gains no one a Mother or Queen.
Female Gender has no place In Gods Spiritual Kingdom/ World.
God is King of His Creations, Throne and Father to All of His adopted sons.
Glory to God,
Taken
but Jane you told me you don’t believe in sola scriptura?
You don’t believe in the Trinity or the divinity of Jesus either I guess cos there not explicitly stated in scripture?
And where is the all mighty doctrine of the “Bible alone” found in scripture???
1st you can sacrifice a lower good for a higher good! Or a higher purpose
2nd you assume way too much, I never said half the thing you accuse me of, focus like a laser please
God has no mother:
Mary is the mother of God:
Both are true!
The divine nature or the divinity has no mother, which you confuse with source, but the divinity is found in a trinity of persons, and the second person of the Trinity became man and does have a mother!
no spiritual kingdom, Lk 1:32-33 the kingdom of David, and in The kingdom line of David the mother of the king is queen
Let’s first determine exactly what is and what is not tradition!
tradition is not customs, not habits, not the works of the law, or ceremonial law which were nailed to the cross, tradition here we are not refering to man made traditions either!
tradition here only refers to divine revelation that is oral, or handed down,
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto youthe power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Col 1:27 etc.
Refers to the
Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors in the church founded in the one true founded by Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
No one!
Matt 21:43 the kingdom and its authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) were taken from them and given by Christ to Peter, apostles, and their successors!
And the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 was given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, shut heaven (keys) bind heavy burden (bind and loose) see mt 16:18
also mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end!
Lk 10:16 He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Sorry but I’m not an OT expert or any kind of expert I know Joshua followed Moses and then those who sit in the seat or chair (Greek catherdral) of Moses
I don't believe in sola scriptura, so preaching it's limitations to me is very silly.
I would like to hear you answer why you all put lots of energy into this Marian discussion when it's a dead-on-arrival with sola scriptura people.
Are you suggesting that if some has different standards of evidence to me then I shouldn't be discussing with them?
I'm wondering why you're putting in so much effort when you know she's never going to see your position as being part of God's Truths of Sola Scriptura.
I spoke for myself, not you.
The trinity is a concept in trying to Identify the Wholeness of God, in layman terms.
Trying to use laymans terms as literal explanations of A Spiritual God...becomes Weird.
God is not literally PERSONS number 1,2,3!!!
God is Spirit...Period.
God is All Powerful...Period.
How God communicates with mankind is At His pleasure...It does NOT Change God.
God DID NOT Literally Enter Marys Womb and hang out for 9 months!
WHAT Entered Marys Womb...by the Power of God...
Was....a Holy Thing!
Guess God could have Sent a Written Copy of a Holy Thing...
But His Choice was to Send "The Holy Thing"..
Which IS "Gods Holy Word"...
IN a Body...God Prepared...
That Looked Like a human man...
Would be Accepted by human men...
Would Teach ignorant mankind...Gods Holy Word!!
If you think that Holy Thing - IS The Word of God- IS God...then Stop pretending He was procreated from a human woman.
He was Revealed by a Virgin Woman...
You should Learn WHY, that was Necessary.
Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Heb 2
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
John 1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God , and the Word was God.
Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in [/B] the likeness of men:[/B]
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Glory to God,
Taken
Thank you for your responses. I would say we are finished for the moment. May God richly bless you when you walk toward Him!
the truth must prevail!
where did they get this idea in the first place? The Bible alone!
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