The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"

[CharismaticLady]

I most certainly believe that in 1 John 1:8, the apostle John included himself when he said "we" in that verse.

I know you do. Do you believe John was a sinner or a child of God? You can't be both.

So, does that mean that once I become a Christian, if I sin afterwards, the sins that I commit after becoming a Christian are not forgiven (or that they cannot be forgiven)? That only the sins that I committed before becoming a Christian are forgiven through the blood of Christ?

If that is the case, it would be expedient for the unbeliever to delay becoming a Christian for as long as possible; hopefully attaining to a deathbed conversion. Because that way, there won't be as much of a possibility of sinning after becoming a Christian and thus having to pay for sins that I commit after becoming a Christian.

Did you know that Constantine refused to get baptized until close to his deathbed for this very reason? But with the power of the Holy Spirit in them, there is no struggle to be righteous. By the way, do you then believe Romans 7:14-23 is the struggle of a Christian, because Paul uses "I"?

 

[ChristisGod]

Notice how John changes his wording to anyone and them below not us, we or ourselves

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It cannot be what you said for the epistle is written to believers not unbelievers. And look below at WE and US ( John includes himself in the WE and the US)

6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

You have changed the WE, US and OURSELVES to THEM. You are reading your ideas into the text instead of reading the plain meaning of the text.

hope this helps !!!

You are reading 1 John 1 with a western mindset, instead of the eastern writing style of the apostles.

So do you also believe that Paul was talking about the struggle of a Christian in Romans 7:14-23 because he uses "I"? What about Romans 7:9? Was Paul alive before and when Moses received the law?

 

[ChristisGod]

So do you also believe that Paul was talking about the struggle of a Christian in Romans 7:14-23 because he uses "I"?

We are discussing 1 John and the Apostle John not Paul so please stick with the context.

1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Once again the we above are dear children/believers just the same in 1 John 1:6-10. There are no chapter and verses in the original Greek,

hope this helps !!!

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are discussing 1 John and the Apostle John not Paul so please stick with the context.

1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Once again the we above are dear children/believers just the same in 1 John 1:6-10. There are no chapter and verses in the original Greek,

hope this helps !!!

Do you see anywhere in 1 John 2:1 that our Advocate speaks of repenting for those sins? Or are they already forgiven and we can sin our heads off?

 

[justbyfaith]

I know you do. Do you believe John was a sinner or a child of God? You can't be both.

A sinner in the sense that he had indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, Romans 7:18; 1 Timothy 1:15, Jeremiah 17:9).

Not a sinner in that he very likely did not commit sins (1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17); for that the element of sin was rendered dead within him (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8).

Did you know that Constantine refused to get baptized until close to his deathbed for this very reason? But with the power of the Holy Spirit in them, there is no struggle to be righteous. By the way, do you then believe Romans 7:14-23 is the struggle of a Christian, because Paul uses "I"?

Romans 7:14-25 may be talking about a believer or an unbeliever. If it is a believer, then Romans 7:24 will come into play and the believer will be discontented with a lifestyle of sin.

 

[ChristisGod]

Do you see anywhere in 1 John 2:1 that our Advocate speaks of repenting for those sins? Or are they already forgiven and we can sin our heads off?

John just said to confess our sins 2 verses earlier and now if we sin we have an advocate- He is teaching them about Christ and expounding on the doctrines of Christ.

and no one is saying we can go sinning our heads off and no one I see here is teaching that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Romans 7:14-25 may be talking about a believer or an unbeliever. If it is a believer, then Romans 7:24 will come into play and the believer will be discontented with a lifestyle of sin.

If an unbeliever, why is Paul using "I"?

 

[CharismaticLady]

John just said to confess our sins 2 verses earlier and now if we sin we have an advocate- He is teaching them about Christ and expounding on the doctrines of Christ.

and no one is saying we can go sinning our heads off and no one I see here is teaching that.

So after we confess our sin and we are cleansed of all sin, and we sin again, we don't have to confess it, we can just rest assured that our past, present and future sins are forgiven, even murder?

 

[justbyfaith]

If an unbeliever, why is Paul using "I"?

He was using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION; as he said was his style in 1 Corinthians 9:22.

This particular tactic in its execution utilizes the word "I" rather than "we".

To use the word "we" would be to defeat the purpose of the tactic...it would be to include the people being spoken to as part of those who are identifying with the people being spoken to...it would end up being redundant.

 

[CharismaticLady]

John just said to confess our sins 2 verses earlier and now if we sin we have an advocate- He is teaching them about Christ and expounding on the doctrines of Christ.

and no one is saying we can go sinning our heads off and no one I see here is teaching that.

My point is how does 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 3:9 mesh? Do you know?

 

[CharismaticLady]

He was using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION; as he said was his style in 1 Corinthians 9:22.

This particular tactic in its execution utilizes the word "I" rather than "we".

To use the word "we" would be to defeat the purpose of the tactic...it would be to include the person being spoken to as part of those who are identifying with the people being spoken to...it would end up being redundant.

John was speaking to his congregation, thus "we". Is everyone that ever steps inside your church automatically saved? Or might there be some who still need teaching?

 

[justbyfaith]

My point is how does 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 3:9 mesh? Do you know?

1 John 2:1 is a catch-all in the case that one doesn't live up to 1 John 3:9 perfectly.

It indicates that we are saved by grace and not by living perfect lives; although we are saved unto living perfect lives.

 

[justbyfaith]

John was speaking to his congregation, thus "we". Is everyone that ever steps inside your church automatically saved? Or might there be some who still need teaching?

If he was not including himself in the statement, the more accurate and truthful word would have been "you".

Which brings up another point. If John had used the word "you", the question would arise, why us and not you too?

Why, John, are you exempt from having deceived yourself if you say that you have no sin when we are not exempt from that rule?

If it is because we do have sin and you don't, why cannot we also attain to your level of holiness so that 1 John 1:8 (revised) will not apply to us?

But it is obvious that the revised version of 1 John 1:8 will apply to us no matter if we attain to your level of holiness; for we cannot simply take that verse out of holy scripture.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are discussing 1 John and the Apostle John not Paul so please stick with the context.

1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Once again the we above are dear children/believers just the same in 1 John 1:6-10. There are no chapter and verses in the original Greek,

hope this helps !!!

They are both using present personal, and both are eastern. Do you believe Paul when he said that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? Or are some people born sinless. It is the same as John in 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10. Verse 10 is claiming to never have sinned. Is that someone who has ever confessed his sins? Sins which he claims he never committed?

 

[101G]

You have to know how the apostles write. You are western with a western mindset, and "we" and "I" as in Romans 7, you probably believe are Christians. (This is not my first rodeo.) But Paul is not saying that Christians have the struggle of Romans 7:14-23, and neither is John speaking about Christians who do not have the light of God in them.

see CL this is why there is a church... the CALLED OUT ONES? understand now. we

Romans 7:14-23,

this is the christian struggle. but we have HELP in our struggle. listen, Ephesians 6:10 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might."Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."Ephesians 6:14 "Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;"Ephesians 6:15 "And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;"Ephesians 6:16 "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."Ephesians 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"Ephesians 6:18 "Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;"

CL, you might wnat to read that again, as well as this, Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." that old man, which is our old mind. have you ever heard the old saying, "the mind is willing, but the body is not". yes, because it suppose to be dead indeed to sin. see we have a new twist to an old saying.

understand, knowing this, back to , Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."Romans 6:13 "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."

LET is an act of the will. see CL, the fight is in your head, where that old body, "MIND", or the old man, the seat of consciousness that cater to evil, use to do it's bidding... and the the body of flesh carried out its demands.

that' the difference between "sin", and "iniquity". sin is abstract, you cannot see it... a thought. but the manifestation is it works.

example, if a man look upon a woman in "LUST", he have already sinned. you cannot see it, but when one acts on it, then the sin is revealed. other words, if a man LUST after a woman, the thought it's spiritual, and cannot see it, but when they get in bed, then that unseen thought is manifested, in the works of the flesh, that's the iniquity. understand, the woks of the flesh manifest the sin.

so don't keep the thought in your head, just as with Cain, listen Genesis 4:6 "And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"Genesis 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

that door is your HEART, or the will of the Soul. so don't entertain the thought, that's why the apostle said, "LET NOT sin rule". overcome the thought by the word of God that is BUILT UP IN YOU, which is the Spirit that has sprong up in us. that's why Peter said, add to your FAITH, and as Paul also said in Ephesians 6, put on the whole aumor of God. now one can understand why in the garden, there was a tree of Good .... and Evil was place there.... (smile).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[CharismaticLady]

1 John 2:1 is a catch-all in the case that one doesn't live up to 1 John 3:9 perfectly.

It indicates that we are saved by grace and not by living perfect lives; although we are saved unto living perfect lives.

Yes, we can be in church, learning, and yet not be saved. We MUST be born again of the Spirit, for without the Spirit of Christ, we do not belong to Him, and He will say to us, "Depart from me, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity!"

 

[CharismaticLady]

this is the christian struggle.

You are saying that Romans 7:14-23 is the Christian struggle? That is out of context. It is NOT the Christian struggle, but before someone is filled with the Spirit of Christ who FREES ME (Paul) from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:2. Romans 8:2 frees Paul from Romans 7:14-23! Get it?

 

[CharismaticLady]

If he was not including himself in the statement, the more accurate and truthful word would have been "you".

Again you are still thinking western, when you should be thinking eastern!

 

[justbyfaith]

example, if a man look upon a woman in "LUST", he have already sinned. you cannot see it, but when one acts on it, then the sin is revealed. other words, if a man LUST after a woman, the thought it's spiritual, and cannot see it, but when they get in bed, then that unseen thought is manifested, in the works of the flesh, that's the iniquity. understand, the woks of the flesh manifest the sin.

I always considered that sin was on the outside and iniquity on the inside.

 

[101G]

You are saying that Romans 7:14-23 is the Christian struggle? That is out of context. It is NOT the Christian struggle, but before someone is filled with the Spirit of Christ who FREES ME (Paul) from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:2. Romans 8:2 frees Paul from Romans 7:14-23!

CL, CL, CL, when you're born again, do you know instantly everything as to how to walk with God? no, see as with a natural baby, it must crawl before it walk, understand now?.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"