The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"

[marks]

To attribute means to judge something that is there. NOT....something that isn't there.

David describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness without works.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

This is where life with God begins. When the ungodly believes, trusts in Jesus, though he be ungodly, though he not have works of righteousness, God nonetheless reckons him righteous.

Of course, it doesn't stop there. In the same act of justification, God also recreates the believer in righteousness and holiness. This is the true nature of justification. To declare the sinner, the ungodly, to be just, to be righteous, and to recreate them righteous and holy.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is fully ridiculous. It takes a lot of indoctrination to make God out to be unrighteous like that. The first point of righteousness is to see things as they are.

To attribute means to judge something that is there. NOT....something that isn't there.

The general idea is, we can't attain the perfection of holiness required by God on our own.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When we enter INTO Christ we take on His attributes...but those attributes remain His all the way.

If any be In Christ, he is a new creation. Old things are passed away. Look! All things are become new!

Put on the new man, which is created after God, in righteousness and true holiness.

We actually become different. New. Born from above.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

So, forgiveness is based not on Jesus blood, but on how we forgive others? Is that what you are saying? I do not want to misread your words.

If one dies with what you call unforgiven sin- are they lost then?

Of course it is based on the blood of Jesus as is the New Covenant! In the OT it was the blood of bulls and goats, but that merely covered the sins while the indwelling sin remained. The blood of Jesus takes away our sins to to core and fills us with the Holy Spirit. As far as forgiving others, haven't you read:

John 20:
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Matthew 6:
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well here is one place we do agree.

In the life of a believer god never sees sin again! Why? Because only teh old man is capable of sinning and god has declared Him dead, so He does not deal with His children after teh old man, but teh new.

also as because of the blood of Jesus, every single sin past, present, future has been forgiven- there is no more punishment by God for our sin!

What makes you think a true Christian with the Holy Spirit in them sins in the present and future? That is part of the false doctrine.

 

[Nancy]

To impute means to attribute. As in the crying was imputed to the baby. Now we all know that baby's cry. But Luther developed this fiction that says that God imputes His righteousness to us. That's like God recognizing that we are God. If you can swallow that then you have been reformed...terminally so!

When we enter INTO Christ we take on His attributes...but those attributes remain His all the way. It's like entering an army tank. We take the bulletproof nature of the tank when we are INSIDE the tank. That's the meaning of the whole armour of God.

Again...entering into Christ.

Yes, agreed that impute means to attribute. So, in this one case, where "faith" is counted as righteousness does that mean that it is like, "going to be" credited or "will be" credited when one finishes the race? Like a down payment??


Romans 4:22-25
"Therefore it was also CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification."

“Now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe” (Rom. 3:21-22).


"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," Romans 4:5.

God's grace/righteousness is ours by faith, not by works...(speaking of the Law here, works for salvation) "Good" works flow naturally if He is living inside us.

It seems we have the righteousness OF Christ as He lives THROUGH us? If He lives in us at all! There is no righteousness of our own.

“And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Phil. 3:9).

I believe Gods own righteousness is just that, His own, period. And we surely benefit from Christ being obedient.

I still see though, a difference between imputed and imparted

Tnx!

 

[mjrhealth]

The Holy Spirit is not business as usual...it is the power of God to walk as Jesus walked. You are looking to sin without guilt. The wages of sin is still death...no matter how you deal with that emotionally.

But the gospel is not about feeling better about your sinful weakness...it is the power of God unto salvation

Yes and always will be unless you are Born again and made alive in Christ. And no it is not:business as usual", because now you have the Spirit of God in you and That spirit cannot sin, what concern does the wine have with the outside of the vessel, you still trying to make the outside clean.

As for feeling better, having no guilt is a good start, its the devil and men that love to fill men with Guilt. How can those who are forgiven be guilty.??

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy,

American English has some various nuances of "impute". We kind of vary a bit from the Greek wording. We talk about "imputed righteousness", and then go on to talk about it using this American English ideas of what is imputed. I don't think this leads to the right answers.

View attachment 10958
So while we say, 'imputed righteousness', God has "accounted" or "reckoned" righteousness. This word logizetai is a lot like it sounds, think it so.

Even though we do not have the works that would make us righteous, God accounts us as righteous regardless, because we believe. God, Who calls those things that don't exist into being.

Much love!

"Even though we do not have the works that would make us righteous"

Would not these be the "good works" that God has already set out for us to walk in? Or do you mean the works of The Law?

 

[marks]

"Even though we do not have the works that would make us righteous"

Would not these be the "good works" that God has already set out for us to walk in? Or do you mean the works of The Law?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

To him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly. These are not justified for any works they have done.

Faith, and not works, are counted for righteousness. So our righteousness that God accounts to us is specifically said to not be based on works. So that would include anything done in the flesh or in the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

To him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly. These are not justified for any works they have done.

Faith, and not works, are counted for righteousness. So our righteousness that God accounts to us is specifically said to not be based on works. So that would include anything done in the flesh or in the Spirit.

Much love!

Yes...that's pretty much what I've said, lol. Seems I might have derailed a bit with the "works" def...sry!
It's pretty elementary that one is never, ever saved by works, nor made righteous by works. Yes, our "faith" is accounted as righteousness.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That chapter is about the law of Moses. And the quote is from the Old Testament where they sacrificed bulls and goats that merely covered sin, but didn't take it away. You should know that.

Regardless of how it is phrased , my Sins are “ blotted out”...... Simply because I believe the Gospel ..... that is all I know— that is all I “ need” to know.I just thank God for His Grace....
The Doctrine Of Sinless Perfection is so blatantly ridiculous , only the incredibly deceived would buy into it fir more than 5 seconds......and if that Fantasy State Could ever be achieved, it would not save a person or keep a person Saved.... Two things Save us —- Christ’s Blood and Our Faith.....sin or the lack of sin is not the relevant issue when it comes to Salvation.....those who hold to the Perverted False Gospel Of “ Repent Of your Sins ( or , in other words— Stop Sinning ) or you will burn in Hell” are preaching a False Gospel and are actually the ones who will be damned or as Galatians clearly puts it— “ Accursed”
I will give $1000 to anyone that can find in the KJV where it say “ Repent Of your sins to be Saved “
There is only ONE Way to be Saved.....Turn to God (True Saving Repentance) with Faith in Jesus Christ ......do that and God Promises to Save “ To The Uttermost”.....
All of those that think they have achieved Perfection in a Flesh Body are no different than you and me ....who in the world do they think they are fooling? They ain’t fooling God , that’s for sure ! He knows they have thoughts thy would “shame Hell”......Jesus made Clear that if you think it—- you are as guilty as the one that does it....if you have merely a lustful thought, you are as guilty as an Adulterer.......Grace is the only hope Anybody has..why do the “ Stiff- Necked “ resist it ?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Regardless of how it is phrased , my Sins are “ blotted out”...... Simply because I believe the Gospel ..... that is all I know— that is all I “ need” to know.I just thank God for His Grace....
The Doctrine Of Sinless Perfection is so blatantly ridiculous , only the incredibly deceived would buy into it fir more than 5 seconds......and if that Fantasy State Could ever be achieved, it would not save a person or keep a person Saved.... Two things Save us —- Christ’s Blood and Our Faith.....sin or the lack of sin is not the relevant issue when it comes to Salvation.....those who hold to the Perverted False Gospel Of “ Repent Of your Sins ( or , in other words— Stop Sinning ) or you will burn in Hell” are preaching a False Gospel and are actually the ones who will be damned or as Galatians clearly puts it— “ Accursed”
I will give $1000 to anyone that can find in the KJV where it say “ Repent Of your sins to be Saved “
There is only ONE Way to be Saved.....Turn to God (True Saving Repentance) with Faith in Jesus Christ ......do that and God Promises to Save “ To The Uttermost”.....
All of those that think they have achieved Perfection in a Flesh Body are no different than you and me ....who in the world do they think they are fooling? They ain’t fooling God , that’s for sure ! He knows they have thoughts thy would “shame Hell”......Jesus made Clear that if you think it—- you are as guilty as the one that does it....if you have merely a lustful thought, you are as guilty as an Adulterer.......Grace is the only hope Anybody has..why do the “ Stiff- Necked “ resist it ?

You'll have to take up your blasphemous ignorance of the power of the blood Jesus with Him.

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Just in case you don't know, that is FREE from SIN.
Not free from condemnation, while continuing to sin.
Not free for the law, while continuing to sin .
Not free from punishment, while continuing to sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree, but even Paul admitted sin still happened in his life.

Chapter and verse please.

Because if you are referring to Romans 7:14-25, Paul was there using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION. As he spoke of in 1 Corinthians 9:22. He became as the weak in order to gain the weak. It is not saying that Paul was actually carnal; but that he identified himself as carnal in order to define carnality and in order to win the carnal person to the Lord. If Paul were actually carnal he would not have been fit to pen the word of God (2 Peter 1:21).

And also, in 1 Timothy 1:15, he is referring to indwelling sin and not practical sins (compare 1 John 1:8 with 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

(see also Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6)

But I agree teh new man that is being shaped into the image of Christ cannot sin,

So, you're saying that the spirit in us does not sin but the flesh does; and that when the flesh sins the new nature does not take part in that sin.

That is gnosticism, my friend.

But what happens or what do you think of a person who says they are a believer and they have a bad day or week. Do you think them unsaved? or do you think them never saved?

They have been justified if they believe in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross. But they are not born of God (1 John 3:9).

BTW, over 1,200 students over the years makes it more than an assumption. Not to mention 4 other churches I was sent to teach in for a time, numerous bible studies and one on one discipling, plus radio and tv and newspapers and 4 continents

And yet, you have spoken down to me condescendingly. And this is not the attitude of a true teacher.

But if you read the bible correctly...it never allows a self-justification.

Agreed!!

It is God Who justifies the ungodly. The ungodly do not justify themselves.

@marks, you took the words right out of my mouth!

that is all I know— that is all I “ need” to know.

You "need to know" the whole counsel of God, friend.

The Doctrine Of Sinless Perfection is so blatantly ridiculous , only the incredibly deceived would buy into it fir more than 5 seconds......

Except that it is a biblical doctrine.

You call it ridiculous (foolish)...I suggest you read 1 Corinthians 1:18-25.

and if that Fantasy State Could ever be achieved, it would not save a person or keep a person Saved....

I tend to agree with you there (although I may change my pov in a matter of time).

The doctrine of entire sanctification is for those who, along with Paul (as in Romans 7:24) have become discontented with a lifestyle of sin because their conscience afflicts them concerning their sins.

the Perverted False Gospel Of “ Repent Of your Sins ( or , in other words— Stop Sinning ) or you will burn in Hell” are preaching a False Gospel

So, John the Baptist preached a false gospel (see Matthew 3)?

I will give $1000 to anyone that can find in the KJV where it say “ Repent Of your sins to be Saved “

Will you still give me $1,000 if I show you the concept in the Bible?

All of those that think they have achieved Perfection in a Flesh Body are no different than you and me ....who in the world do they think they are fooling? They ain’t fooling God , that’s for sure ! He knows they have thoughts thy would “shame Hell”.

He knows that my thoughts are always of Him (as per Psalms 10:4 (kjv))...and that I rarely, if ever, have a lustful thought. I say this to you truly, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost.

Psa 10:4, The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

2Co 10:3, For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4, (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
2Co 10:5, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[CharismaticLady]

Because if you are referring to Romans 7:14-25, Paul was there using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION.

Right. All anyone would have to do is keep reading. Dah! That struggle ended. Romans 8:2 The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has FREED ME FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH - Romans 7:14-25

1 Timothy 1:
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

cc: @Ronald Nolette you need to start reading further and in context so as to not sound so untutored in the study of the Bible. Paul was no longer a sinner, because He was cleansed of all unrighteousness as is every Christian. Acts 24:16 This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.

 

[CharismaticLady]

David describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness without works.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

This is where life with God begins. When the ungodly believes, trusts in Jesus, though he be ungodly, though he not have works of righteousness, God nonetheless reckons him righteous.

Of course, it doesn't stop there. In the same act of justification, God also recreates the believer in righteousness and holiness. This is the true nature of justification. To declare the sinner, the ungodly, to be just, to be righteous, and to recreate them righteous and holy.

Much love!

Don't forget marks, this habit of yours and your friends of always quoting Romans 4 as a stand alone chapter, instead of the eight chapter teaching on sin, makes you believe that we are not under ANY law, when that is not true. We are under the law of life in the Holy Spirit of Christ, the laws of God written on our hearts of the New Covenant. We do not break the law, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

 

[mjrhealth]

You'll have to take up your blasphemous ignorance of the power of the blood Jesus with Him.

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Just in case you don't know, that is FREE from SIN.
Not free from condemnation, while continuing to sin.
Not free for the law, while continuing to sin .
Not free from punishment, while continuing to sin.

So now believing is blasphemous, yes we are free, is not that enough for you, are you going to spend you whole life condemning the saved, He didnt come to perfect your flesh that is where HE condemned sin to, will you always try clean the outside of the cup, it has no bearing one the inside.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So now believing is blasphemous, yes we are free, is not that enough for you, are you going to spend you whole life condemning the saved, He didnt come to perfect your flesh that is where HE condemned sin to, will you always try clean the outside of the cup, it has no bearing one the inside.

Your totally incomplete belief is blasphemous, YES! You do not know what it is you are actually free from, if you even are.

When you have the indwelling Holy Spirit and are suddenly free from sin, you KNOW it. There is an extreme difference in your nature. But if you are not free, you believe you are just free from condemnation, and can continue to sin as always. Now that is blasphemous and a complete inadequate underplay of the power of the blood of Jesus.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You'll have to take up your blasphemous ignorance of the power of the blood Jesus with Him.

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Just in case you don't know, that is FREE from SIN.
Not free from condemnation, while continuing to sin.
Not free for the law, while continuing to sin .
Not free from punishment, while continuing to sin.

You Fool Nobody......except yourself.In your silly, confused Pride , you think you are “ above” all of the other Believers and reached a level of Perfection in your Body Of Flesh. Big Mistake. As I said.....” You have Secret Thoughts That Would Shame Hell itself” and bad thoughts are bad as the deed itself...
I hope Newbies to the Faith can use this example to see how dangerous the Bible is to those who that do not understand it......I suspect that deep inside her, she has greatly misunderstood verses like Hebrews 6 and 10 and has to conjure-up some kind of Doctrine that gives her day-to -day “ peace”and allows her to sleep at night....
This is what happens when you reject a free gift and think instead that you have to merit it .God provided his ONLY Proper Way to sleep at night AND be full of Joy in the day. That “WAY” is to Rest in His Gospel—— a Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing.Your UnBiblical and delusional religion that you conjured up up has its origins in Hell and I think you are in serious jeopardy of being lost...if you preach a false Gospel ( anything that disagrees with 1Cor15:1-4) you are “ Accursed”...... you are smart enough to know what that means......for those of you that don’t know what “ Accursed” means....it means Damnation....One does not mess with the Gospel.....

 

[HisLife]

Right. All anyone would have to do is keep reading. Dah! That struggle ended. Romans 8:2 The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has FREED ME FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH - Romans 7:14-25

1 Timothy 1:
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

cc: @Ronald Nolette you need to start reading further and in context so as to not sound so untutored in the study of the Bible. Paul was no longer a sinner, because He was cleansed of all unrighteousness as is every Christian. Acts 24:16 This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I am Chief. is current context not past, You show your a liar and the truth is not in you. Watch you worm around this verse

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[mjrhealth]

Your totally incomplete belief is blasphemous, YES! You do not know what it is you are actually free from, if you even are.

When you have the indwelling Holy Spirit and are suddenly free from sin, you KNOW it. There is an extreme difference in your nature. But if you are not free, you believe you are just free from condemnation, and can continue to sin as always. Now that is blasphemous and a complete inadequate underplay of the power of the blood of Jesus.

Oh get over yourself, if you insist on opposing Christ by declaring all those who come to Him"Sinners" just because they are not like you, than go ahead. For when you stand and call those who are in Him sinners, you call Him a sinner, you know that bit, that they do to the lest of these they do to me. Christ made us righteous if you insist we are not good enough than you are insisting His righteousness is not good enough, Will you forever stand against Him.

I know the power of God, it has declared me "innocent" in the eyes of God, but you would declare all men guilty.