The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"

[Episkopos]

It is exactly what is taught by the holy scriptures. Just read all of Romans chapter 4.



It is simply the gospel of Jesus Christ that He was punished for and took the penalty for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

How can you justify yourself as righteous for reading a certain chapter in the bible? It's a modern trend. The whole weight of teaching in both testaments is against self-justification.

Jesus was punished for our sins. That is a mark against us. And we are still doing the same thing when we seek to keep our natural life intact by claiming the death of Jesus for ourselves...as if He was our Lamb to sacrifice...without actually surrendering our lives to God.

So then we tend to do the carnal easy things and fully miss what it means to go to the cross ourselves in order to fulfill the law of Christ. Jesus is safe on the cross. We like what He can do for us...but follow Him in death??? Not so much.

It is too easy to justify oneself and do as the crucifiers did...in order to avoid the cross of Christ for ourselves.

 

[Taken]

If you were in my class ...

Excuse the intrusion-
There is a presumption you Teach...

There is a great deal of people mentioning SIN.
I know what that means to me...
Do you teach on the meaning OF SIN and it's specific applicability?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I do not deny that I still have a sin nature...

But I would contend that the element of sin within me can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8).

I agree, but even Paul admitted sin still happened in his life.

That is not necessarily the case. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), we find that God is able to and will sanctify the believer wholly so that he will be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God is sanctifying us wholly. 1 John 1:9 is for the times we fail. And if you look at teh Greek you know this is not guarenteed in this life and even called doubtful in this life, by Paul.

1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9

Well you misunderstand what all these verses are saying! IN English they give teh appearance that once saved you cannot sin, but in the original inspired language- it paints a much different pictrue.

But I agree teh new man that is being shaped into the image of Christ cannot sin, and as long as we live under the Holy Spirit we will not sin. But to say that people never sin again? It is theoretically possible- but no one has attained to it yet- not you, CL or several others I have discussed this with.

But what happens or what do you think of a person who says they are a believer and they have a bad day or week. Do you think them unsaved? or do you think them never saved?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Excuse the intrusion-
There is a presumption you Teach...

There is a great deal of people mentioning SIN.
I know what that means to me...
Do you teach on the meaning OF SIN and it's specific applicability?

Glory to God,
Taken

When I teach on the doctrine of sin (harmartiology for those who like the fancy religious names) Yes I go into the nature of sin, the reason of sins, the six ways we sin, why believers sin, positional vs. experiential biblical truth, etc.etc.etc.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Excuse the intrusion-
There is a presumption you Teach...

There is a great deal of people mentioning SIN.
I know what that means to me...
Do you teach on the meaning OF SIN and it's specific applicability?

Glory to God,
Taken

BTW, over 1,200 students over the years makes it more than an assumption. Not to mention 4 other churches I was sent to teach in for a time, numerous bible studies and one on one discipling, plus radio and tv and newspapers and 4 continents

 

[Taken]

When I teach on the doctrine of sin (harmartiology for those who like the fancy religious names) Yes I go into the nature of sin, the reason of sins, the six ways we sin, why believers sin, positional vs. experiential biblical truth, etc.etc.etc.

Okay, thank you.

 

[marks]

When I teach on the doctrine of sin (harmartiology for those who like the fancy religious names) Yes I go into the nature of sin, the reason of sins, the six ways we sin, why believers sin, positional vs. experiential biblical truth, etc.etc.etc.

In my understanding, sin is all that I think do and say that does not arise from my new life in Christ. Either the source of my human activity is my faith in God, or it's not. If I'm not living out the life of the spirit, alive in Christ which will always produce righteousness, then I'm allowing the flesh it's thing, which will always be sin.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

 

[Taken]

BTW, over 1,200 students over the years makes it more than an assumption. Not to mention 4 other churches I was sent to teach in for a time, numerous bible studies and one on one discipling, plus radio and tv and newspapers and 4 continents

Thank you for sharing.
Mind if I ask some questions on your perspective?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

How can you justify yourself as righteous for reading a certain chapter in the bible?

I think what JBF is saying is that Romans 4 teaches about this, and if you learn this chapter you may gain greater understanding, not that if you merely read the chapter, you are magically saved.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There is a great deal of people mentioning SIN.

Hi Taken,

This seems to be an endless fascination on this forum, more so than some. Discussing sin on and on.

I feel like if there were at least half as much discussion on how we grow in our relationship with Jesus, we'd be a lot better off.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But I agree teh new man that is being shaped into the image of Christ cannot sin, and as long as we live under the Holy Spirit we will not sin. But to say that people never sin again? It is theoretically possible- but no one has attained to it yet- not you, CL or several others I have discussed this with.

If we look at the whole picture . . . our bodies are not yet redeemed.

That which is born of God does not sin. But that which was born of Adam is dead in sin. And the child of God has both present. I am the child of God that cannot sin. I live in a body - corrupted flesh - that can only sin. In faith we overcome. If our faith falters, we may sin.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I think what JBF is saying is that Romans 4 teaches about this, and if you learn this chapter you may gain greater understanding, not that if you merely read the chapter, you are magically saved.

Much love!

This is the essence of Gnosticsm....reading yourself into a verse by a certain understanding that allows you to do that. Like a lawyer looking for a way into a document.

But if you read the bible correctly...it never allows a self-justification. This is beginner's stuff.

 

[Nancy]

So do explain how the obedience of Jesus to His father is credited to you. One person's righteousness cannot be imputed to another. That is exactly contrary to the scriptures. One person cannot be punished, righteously, for the sins of another.

And then there is the issue of you taking on that justification onto yourself. So you are congratulating your own beliefs by your own justification based on a conceptual acceptance of Jesus that is up for grabs for any rich Westerner to call as his personal saviour.

Don't you see the paganism shining through in this? Don't you see the Gnosticism...the philosophical bent that makes a concept the equivalent to having an actual spiritual life and connection to God?

Is there a difference between imparted righteousness and imputed righteousness? Have to check that one out.

And do you think about 1 Corinthians 1:30 ?
"It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption:"

And "1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

 

[marks]

This is the essence of Gnosticsm....reading yourself into a verse by a certain understanding that allows you to do that. Like a lawyer looking for a way into a document.

This is the problem I see with bandying that word about. There is the historical meaning, and then there seem to be endless variations on the theme, at least, what I've seen over the years.

Labeling and dismissing I guess would be like a lawyer looking for a way out of an otherwise difficult or uncomfortable discussion.

In this case, a discussion of putting on and putting of the old man, and a potential discussion on what justification actually is, are neatly avoided with the toss of a word . . . a label.

But if you read the bible correctly...it never allows a self-justification. This is beginner's stuff.

Agreed!!

It is God Who justifies the ungodly. The ungodly do not justify themselves.



Much love!

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken,

This seems to be an endless fascination on this forum, more so than some. Discussing sin on and on.

I feel like if there were at least half as much discussion on how we grow in our relationship with Jesus, we'd be a lot better off.

Much love!

Just saying, a lot talk about sin, sin seems to have different meanings to different people, yet individual's also seem to Not be able to put their own finger on what it means to them.
Sort of like talking about vehicles, and you mean, automatic car, but I mean Manuel truck...The application is not the same.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

Is there a difference between imparted righteousness and imputed righteousness? Have to check that one out.

And do you think about 1 Corinthians 1:30 ?
"It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption:"

And "1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Hi Nancy,

American English has some various nuances of "impute". We kind of vary a bit from the Greek wording. We talk about "imputed righteousness", and then go on to talk about it using this American English ideas of what is imputed. I don't think this leads to the right answers.



So while we say, 'imputed righteousness', God has "accounted" or "reckoned" righteousness. This word logizetai is a lot like it sounds, think it so.

Even though we do not have the works that would make us righteous, God accounts us as righteous regardless, because we believe. God, Who calls those things that don't exist into being.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Just saying, a lot talk about sin, sin seems to have different meanings to different people, yet individual's also seem to Not be able to put their own finger on what it means to them.
Sort of like talking about vehicles, and you mean, automatic car, but I mean Manuel truck...The application is not the same.

Glory to God,
Taken

That's true!

For myself, all that is not of faith is sin. There is the life that Jesus lives in me, that is to be my life, and anything else falls short!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Is there a difference between imparted righteousness and imputed righteousness? Have to check that one out.

To impute means to attribute. As in the crying was imputed to the baby. Now we all know that baby's cry. But Luther developed this fiction that says that God imputes His righteousness to us. That's like God recognizing that we are God. If you can swallow that then you have been reformed...terminally so!

And do you think about 1 Corinthians 1:30 ?
"It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption:"

When we enter INTO Christ we take on His attributes...but those attributes remain His all the way. It's like entering an army tank. We take the bulletproof nature of the tank when we are INSIDE the tank. That's the meaning of the whole armour of God.

And "1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Again...entering into Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Nancy,

American English has some various nuances of "impute". We kind of vary a bit from the Greek wording. We talk about "imputed righteousness", and then go on to talk about it using this American English ideas of what is imputed. I don't think this leads to the right answers.

View attachment 10958

So while we say, 'imputed righteousness', God has "accounted" or "reckoned" righteousness. This word logizetai is a lot like it sounds, think it so.

Even though we do not have the works that would make us righteous, God accounts us as righteous regardless, because we believe. God, Who calls those things that don't exist into being.

Much love!

This is fully ridiculous. It takes a lot of indoctrination to make God out to be unrighteous like that. The first point of righteousness is to see things as they are.

To attribute means to judge something that is there. NOT....something that isn't there.

 

[marks]

This is fully ridiculous. It takes a lot of indoctrination to make God out to be unrighteous like that. The first point of righteousness is to see things as they are.

To attribute means to judge something that is there. NOT....something that isn't there.

Was there something specific you'd like to point to?





These are from G3049 - logizomai - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

Is your disagreement concerning this word?

Much love!