Jesus is the Word of God and He trumps everything, yes including especially false doctrine.
The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"
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I guess that is why no man is Holy??? Just God, Jesus the angels and the Holy Spirit.
Haven't heard that phrase, nor did you actually quote another saying that.
• Man's bodily Blood, Is that body's life.
• Man's blood, is the Payment required for man's Sin (Disbelief) Against God
••••BIG PROBLEM-
Paying For Sin with Sinful Corrupt Blood...
Is A Fail!
• Jesus' Blood IS Pure (void of Sin).
• Jesus Offered HIS Blood, FOR a man's Payment ...for the man TO receive FORGIVENESS (of the man's Disbeliving Sin Against God)
• Jesus reveals He Offers HIS Blood. AND HOW a man CAN Accept HIS Offering.
• A man (Body) being WASHED in the BLOOD of Jesus, is Simply revealing a particular man Has Accepted Jesus' Offering.
• A Gift IS Given a Man (WHO "HAS Been" WASHED in Jesus' Blood)... THAT particular man IS Forgiven His Sin (of having had Disbelief IN God.)
The Gift Given A Forgiven man...IS the Holy Spirit...Which IS Gods "POWER of Pure Light".
The Gift Given...IS Given "Within", the man's body...which Absolutely DOES COVER ALL of The Man's Forgiven Sin...
Further Unseen by God.
Further Remembered NO MORE by God.
(but not to forget...men do so like to boast of their long memory...and Instigate whispers of Forgiven sin, "AS IF", "they" do well by keeping in the forefront, what God Himself has Overcome and Put Away.)
Glory to God,
Taken
VictoryinJesus
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Did go back last night and read again your post. Can’t say I disagree. Yet still unsure what it says to you. Just a thought (right or wrong): Who is blind except he who has forgotten he was cleansed from his old sins.
could also say who is ‘high minded’ and boasts as if he did not receive mercy, grace love and forgiveness ...except him who has forgotten he was cleansed from his old sins. ...becoming vain in his own thoughts (high minded) in thinking more of himself than he should. ‘he who has forgotten he was cleansed from his old sins’ this man forgets mercy, love, peace, forgiveness and grace. Where ‘God’s strength is made perfect in weakness.’
James 1:23-25 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.(deceiving himself, being made blind) [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, (of what manner of man he was)but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
YOu still have a sin nature. YOu are not fully sanctified yet! You are being sanctified! YOu are still learning things you do are sin! The new man is incapable of sin. the old man cannot do anything but sin. We must choose daily which man will "sit on the throne of our heart" as they say.
I want one Scripture that says once you are born again you cannot sin anymore!
YOu and CL need to answer this question:
If one who is saved and filled with the Spirit sins, are they still saved? If not why not?
If you were in my class and held that belief- I would invite you to leave! That kind of leaven has shown itself so destructive. IN all I have seen who believe they live sinlessly perfect lives- they live with a haughty spirit.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well here is one place we do agree.
In the life of a believer god never sees sin again! Why? Because only teh old man is capable of sinning and god has declared Him dead, so He does not deal with His children after teh old man, but teh new.
also as because of the blood of Jesus, every single sin past, present, future has been forgiven- there is no more punishment by God for our sin!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So, forgiveness is based not on Jesus blood, but on how we forgive others? Is that what you are saying? I do not want to misread your words.
If one dies with what you call unforgiven sin- are they lost then?
I do not deny that I still have a sin nature...
But I would contend that the element of sin within me can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8).
That is not necessarily the case. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), we find that God is able to and will sanctify the believer wholly so that he will be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9
They are still saved. Because the law, which was 430 years after the promise, is not going to disanull the promise.
On the other hand, if we willfully sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins; but only a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that will consume the adversaries (see Hebrews 10:26-31).
1st of all, I do not believe that I have yet attained to living a life of "sinless perfection"...more accurately identified as entire sanctification.
2ndly, believing that it is possible as a goal is healthy for the believer who is seeking to be more sanctified as time passes.
3rdly, Within the context of my theology, a man can believe that it is possible without believing that he has attained to it.
4thly, I do believe that if anyone is perfect, he will have the attitude that he has room to grow; which does not change the fact that he has in fact been perfected (Philippians 3:12-15).
Here you have failed to capitalize the word God in the above quote; not once, but twice. This cannot be attributed to mere human error in my humble opinion. You need to respect God more and capitalize His name when you refer to Him.
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Grace is the power of God...His strength that is meant for the weak inner man.
2 Cor. 12:9
Gnosticism is an easy way to pass the outer Adamic man into a supposed area of grace. This is done by dividing the inner man from the outer man....but the wrong way. It is to take away the responsibility for sin from the inner man...the very opposite to the work of the Spirit which convicts us of sin. So then Gnosticism goes directly against the Spirit.
Putting on the new man is only possible when God puts the old man on the cross. That takes a kind of surrender basically unknown in rich Western countries.
It shows the need to go to the cross to be freed from sin.
The fallen nature wants to be saved. That is the part that claims salvation status and desires assurance. So then by trying to save one's soul...it is lost...as per Jesus' teaching. The inner man is very weak and needy. Jesus wants to be the new Head...so we have no more need of that which defends us or protects us. Of course without Christ to take over...we would be foolish to let go of our outer man with his protection and strength.
Jesus never took away the responsibility He took away the guilt, the consequence and the condemnation, but so many love to condemn the world and themselves, Jesus came to set us free, men love making us prisoners,The OT was all about self, you had to embrace the law and than by your own works try to be good, in the we embrace Christ, it is no longer about us, nor our works or abilities we are made Good enough because of Him, not one thing we can do to improve on that. So no man can boast.
Gal_3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"
OP ^
Key word "COVER" is NOT False.
Jesus' PURE untainted BLOOD is that which given TO "FORGIVE SIN."
Forgiven Sin, does Not "Disappear"...
Forgiven SIN.... IS COVERED
Forgiven Sin IS COVERED, WIth The Indwelling Power/Spirit/ LIGHT OF God!
Rom 4
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, AND whose sins are covered.
Glory to God,
Taken
OP ^
Key word "COVER" is NOT False.
Jesus' PURE untainted BLOOD is that which given TO "FORGIVE SIN."
Forgiven Sin, does Not "Disappear"...
Forgiven SIN.... IS COVERED
Forgiven Sin IS COVERED, WIth The Indwelling Power/Spirit/ LIGHT OF God!
Rom 4
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, AND whose sins are covered.
Glory to God,
Taken
The Holy Spirit is not business as usual...it is the power of God to walk as Jesus walked. You are looking to sin without guilt. The wages of sin is still death...no matter how you deal with that emotionally.
But the gospel is not about feeling better about your sinful weakness...it is the power of God unto salvation
This would speak to the difference in our views of justification, I think.
Being forgiven does remove the guilt, though I'm not suggesting that we do not have the say over whether we sin or not, or that sin doesn't matter.
Of course, this isn't talking about historical Gnosticism, which would not include the idea of the 'material man' somehow entering into grace. So this is not Gnosticism, which considers all that is material inherently evil.
But speaking Biblically, having been "justified away from sin" (Romans 6) by our death and resurrection in Christ, we now are completely free from the power of sin, only our lack of faith will cause us to stumble if in our faith we falter.
This is my primary concern in teaching a Biblical view of justification, because without that, it's easy to not realize how completely sin's power over us is destroyed.
Paul teaches of the inner man, and the outer man, and the differences between them, just as he teaches of putting off the old man, and putting on the new man, which is created patterned after God Himself, and created in righteousness, and true holiness.
When you discover the Biblical truth that being born again, born from God, is to become His spirit child, sharing His righteous and holy nature, partakers of His nature, when you discover this, you will equally discover that you can walk in this new reality, part of the new humanity.
Understanding the meaning of "the inner man" and "the outer man" helps us in learning what it means to put off the old man, and put on the new man.
Putting on the new man is really the same thing as putting on Christ. No, I'm not saying we are Christ. Just the same, we are reborn in God's pattern, we are being conformed to the image of Christ.
Peter gives us a step-by-step in telling us to add virtue to our faith, add knowledge to our virtue, and so forth. And he tells us if we aren't doing these, it shows we've become near sighted to the point of blindness, and have forgotten we've been cleansed of our past sins.
As we learn to live in the confidence that God is giving us new life in Christ, we find that our deliverance from the power of sin is real, only, be it to you according to your faith. If you don't think it's true, you will not be availing yourself of the benefits of life in Christ, a truly sorrowful state!
Again, speaking to the differences in our views, according to the Bible, we who are born again have already been crucified in Christ, and have already been recreated a new person.
This is why God tells us to put on the new man, something we are to do, because we can, we who have been reborn, we can in fact put on the new man by faith. By the confidence that what God said is true.
Yes, the more comforts, the more feelings of security, the harder it is to understand our complete dependance, and so God builds our faith through the testing of adversity. But as we see His hand bringing us through each one we can come to understand that He's not lying to us, He really is collecting us together into a most wonderful family of God.
That's what He wants. And it's what I want too.
And I am of course happy to point to any of the passages I draw these understanding from should you wish to discuss any of these things.
Much love!
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I don't think the fallen nature wants anything to do with God, only to keep doing it's own thing, remaining fearful of it's final demise.
And yes, I agree with you, if you are simply trying save yourself, and nothing more to it than that, you won't find what you are looking for. Although I think God's requirements are pretty lean, if you know what I mean, as, "All who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved." But that is a true call, not just speaking the words, I think.
God casts a wide net, I think, some save with compassion, some with fear . . . fear of what? Fear the one who is able to cast body and soul into hell. "How will you escape the fires of hell?" Jesus pleaded with the Pharisees.
I think those who teach that coming to God is only about self-preservation fall far short.
God created us so that we could receive life and love from Him, having relationship with Him, and it pleases Him for it to be so.
I do not sit here "saved" so that I won't sin, though that is part. I do not sit here "saved" so that I can do works of righteousness, though that is part.
I do sit here with my Unseen Creator, Who has given me a new life that is lived "unto God". There is one chief purpose, focus, beginning and end of my life, and that is that I know my Faithful Creator. And in knowing Him, life is eternal and abundant, and all else comes from that relationship.
Having the correct understanding of Justification lets me realize that there is no hindrance whatsoever between God and His children, and we are with Him in a love relationship at all times, no matter what, because it is not based on me, but it is based on Jesus, and His obedience to His Father.
And this confidence is the faith that gives us access to stand in His grace.
Much love!
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On this part . . . I would say, Just so! We helplessly cast ourselves into His loving arms.
Much love!
So do explain how the obedience of Jesus to His father is credited to you. One person's righteousness cannot be imputed to another. That is exactly contrary to the scriptures. One person cannot be punished, righteously, for the sins of another.
And then there is the issue of you taking on that justification onto yourself. So you are congratulating your own beliefs by your own justification based on a conceptual acceptance of Jesus that is up for grabs for any rich Westerner to call as his personal saviour.
Don't you see the paganism shining through in this? Don't you see the Gnosticism...the philosophical bent that makes a concept the equivalent to having an actual spiritual life and connection to God?
Romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
We are made righteous by His act of obedience.
2 Corinthians 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." That is, in Christ.
Ephesians 4
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
We are to "put on" the new man, which, "after God", that is, patterned after God, or, according to God's pattern, this new man is created in righteousness and true holiness.
There is the idea out there that we are all islands, as it were, each determining our relationship with God according to our own individual beliefs and actions, whether sinful or not. As if, were we to simply change our beliefs, or ammend our bad deeds, that we could then have relationship with God.
Nothing is further from the truth, as they say!
1 Corinthians 15
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
This is important. Just like in Romans 5, here, In Adam all die. And in Christ, all are made alive.
It's not about me or you. It's the first man, and the last man. Two men, by which all this is determined.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Either you are a natural man, remaining the son of Adam, dead in trespasses and sins, or you are reborn a spiritual man, alive in Christ. You are part of Adam's humanity, fallen, condemned, dead. Or you are part of Christ's humanity, upright, justified, alive.
Either you are sharing in Adam's death, or you are alive in Christ.
In the OT times, God of course gave the sacrifices which would cover the sins of the natural man, until Christ came. But now Christ is come, and is risen, and all men are called to repent and obey the Gospel.
To answer your question, how is Jesus' obedience credited to me, perhaps the simplest way to say this is that we share.
Galatians 2
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
I am crucified with Christ . . . literally sharing the same crucifixion . . . sunestauromai . . . "impaled together on the wood". Interestingly . . . in a Perfect Tense form.
Romans 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
We share His death, that we may share His life.
Your thoughts?
Much love!
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It is exactly what is taught by the holy scriptures. Just read all of Romans chapter 4.
It is simply the gospel of Jesus Christ that He was punished for and took the penalty for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
No such thing.
Eternal life is actually knowing God. We can know Him because the sin that separated us from Him was removed by Jesus, behold, the Lamb of God Who carries away the sin of the world. And if we believe, receive, are baptized into Christ, this is the new life that is offered.
Much love!
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