The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"

[CharismaticLady]

How dare you insult me! The only thing that I have ever “ bought into” was “ SUPER” Easy Grace....some day you will wish that you had done the same—- you are a MUCH Bigger Sinner than you think you are.....”where Sin abounds, Grace SUPER abounds”...... lol.....that FACT sure gets your panties in a bunch, doesn’t it ? God forgive me—— I LOVE it!

Let's see if I was wrong about what I perceive you to be saying. If I am, I will be the first to admit it, and believe me, I hope I am, but if so, you should make yourself more clear.

It seems to me you believe:

• Your faith in Christ's sacrifice has saved you from the same punishment for your past, present and future sins that you will still be committing.
• Romans 4 declares that you are free from the law by your faith in the sacrifice of Jesus.
• The sins you are now committing are on the cross with Jesus.

Am I right or wrong in my judgment? Please don't give me a long run around answer, just tell me which I have right, and which I have wrong? If wrong, you may tell me what I have wrong, and maybe I'll agree with you.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I am not a Sinner because I Sin—- I Sin because I am a Sinner....just like you...

Speak for yourself, not me, thank you.

Just like Paul I was as terrible sinner, but since all unrighteousness has been cleansed from my nature, I am no longer a sinner, but a child of God. Paul and I are new creations. Our natures have been born again to be able to partake of the very divine nature of God.

God Gave me a New Heart and A New Spirit and it is Impossible for that New Spirit to Sin....
These two natures are constantly warring against each other....Paul describes each nature in Romans 7 .....He describes one part of himself thusly—“ In me dwelling NO good thing” .....still talking about himself he also says “ I delight in the Law Of God”...... One Man—- TWO Natures.....

Your interpretation of Romans 7 is out of context, making it a misinterpretation. Paul's description is about the law of Moses and what it was like to try to keep the law which was holy, with a foul sin loving nature vs. 13. A nature that has never been born again. Correct your mistake by keep reading in context to the next chapter and you will see in just the second verse that the born again man has been freed from the law of Romans 7, the law of sin and death.

Grace is “ unmerited Favor” ....instead of getting what YOU deserve, God gives you what JESUS deserves.....All because you gave God what he wants.....Faith in His Son ...
Grace is bigger and better than Mercy.....I used to think that they were both the same thing.....nope.....
If you are speeding and you get pulled over by a cop and he lets you go—- that is Mercy....If you are Guilty Of speeding, a cop pulls you over , he lets you go But also gives you $1000 —- THAT is Grace....

I don't blame you for any of these wrong answers, because it is obvious you have chosen men to teach you, and it has never been questioned from the likes of me. It would be easier for you to name men who teach this, than it would be to do as I asked and provide scripture. My curiosity is how many in this cult of yours of whole denominations of false teaching will be saved in spite of your teachers. I hope many will actually fall in love with Jesus and He will fill you with His Spirit and you will hate sin as much as I do with scriptural understanding. I do not believe the doctrines we were introduced to have to prevent you from finding the truth through the Spirit, but my ministry is still to those in this dangerous cult of Jude 1:4, stemming from the tantalizing belief in God's mercy winking at sin. These have no concept of the holiness of God, and His demands for the same holiness from His children, and it is He that from His true definition of Grace, gives us the power to never sin again. For without holiness no man shall see God. Heb. 12:14.

2 Peter 1:1-4
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

As you see, God's Grace is Divine Power, not mercy to overlook sin. We have escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. In other words, Jesus saves us FROM our sin, not IN our sin.

This truth is so important for you to start praying for this power of Grace of the Holy Spirit now. It will not only change your doctrine, it will change your life.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It was a man who spoke truthfully about himself who was righteous.

Yes, integrity of heart is the first step in Christ giving you His Spirit to empower you to actually be holy.

 

[mjrhealth]

Again, and you don’t?

Where did I do that please, are you, As your tiltle says, our victory is in Jesus not in ourselves or what we do. It is hard enough for those who come to Christ to walk in faith without others demanding more of them than Christ does.

 

[CharismaticLady]

..

 

[mjrhealth]

The problem is worse when one has never had the power of sin destroyed in the first place. Then there is no need to "build again" what was once torn down. The superficiality of modern conversions does not affect the sinful nature. So then the victory that is IN Christ is yet unknown.

Thats teh whole point, Sin has no more power Christ took it all away, nothing can now separate us from God. Christ paid the ultimate price so death and sin would have no power over us.
But what you say, is just because men dont behave as you would want them too, than they cannot be in Christ, how wrong you are. If teh devil had a list of sins every one commits there would be no names missing off it, its a good thing Christ doesnt keep one.
Every man will be saved by Grace through faith, there will be no boasting in heaven.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Where did I do that please, are you, As your tiltle says, our victory is in Jesus not in ourselves or what we do. It is hard enough for those who come to Christ to walk in faith without others demanding more of them than Christ does.

Oh, yeah? Jesus said to "Be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect." One of the verses you are blind to. I know you hate me, but to be perfect all you have to do is repent, and Jesus will fill you with His Spirit. That way all your sins and the desire to sin will be cleansed and taken away. Then to go on to perfection once the sin nature is dead, is 2 Peter 1:5-7

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thats teh whole point, Sin has no more power Christ took it all away, nothing can now separate us from God. Christ paid the ultimate price so death and sin would have no power over us.

But you don't recognize that He took the desire to sin away also, so that you won't sin anymore. "Be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect."

 

[mjrhealth]

But you don't recognize that He took the desire to sin away also, so that you won't sin anymore. "Be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect."

I do full know well, but you keep making it a burden, we became perfect when we came to Christ and put on His righteousness, our Spirit cannot sin, end of Story, Christ is happy when men believe, is it not enough for you.

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh, yeah? Jesus said to "Be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect." One of the verses you are blind to. I know you hate me, but to be perfect all you have to do is repent, and Jesus will fill you with His Spirit. That way all your sins and the desire to sin will be cleansed and taken away. Then to go on to perfection once the sin nature is dead, is 2 Peter 1:5-7

Its dead to God as out flesh is dead, isnt that enough for you...

Hate you, no you are blind to your blindness, JEsus did it once He isnt doing it again.

 

[Taken]

I'll give you my thoughts on it.

John may have indeed been using hyperbole here to make a point...the point being that if anyone is truly born again, they will most definitely have a changed life.

My favorite scripture to quote when referring to this issue is Proverbs 4:18...from which we can obtain the understanding that if we are righteous before the Lord, our righteousness will be continually increasing and never decreasing...and also that there may come a perfect day wherein our righteousness may reach a plateau of the perfection that Jesus required in Matthew 5:48.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Mat 5:43, Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44, But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45, That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46, For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47, And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48, Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I think that in the latter passage, it is possible to be perfect in what Jesus is talking about. That is what the Holy Spirit is for; and I believe that the provision for us to be obedient in this area of morality is given in Romans 5:5.

I'll give you my thoughts on it.

John may have indeed been using hyperbole here to make a point...the point being that if anyone is truly born again, they will most definitely have a changed life.

My favorite scripture to quote when referring to this issue is Proverbs 4:18...from which we can obtain the understanding that if we are righteous before the Lord, our righteousness will be continually increasing and never decreasing...and also that there may come a perfect day wherein our righteousness may reach a plateau of the perfection that Jesus required in Matthew 5:48.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Mat 5:43, Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44, But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45, That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46, For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47, And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48, Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I think that in the latter passage, it is possible to be perfect in what Jesus is talking about. That is what the Holy Spirit is for; and I believe that the provision for us to be obedient in this area of morality is given in Romans 5:5.

Thank you justbtfaith for your input.
• to your point of possibility to be perfect-
I believe a man "IN Christ" IS Perfect-ED "IN Christ" and that a man BECOMES "PERFECT",
ON the Day, His Own Body, IS RAISED IN uncorruption.

• to your point of morality- I believe THAT- is Broad in what are the Effects- But squarely Lands ON - BEHAVIORS of Men which -
God Himself established "in PRECEPTS" as a Guide and the Lord upheld;
And to THAT - TWO POINTS-
1) A man who has Freely Chosen to BE IN Christ, HAS Given The Lord Authority, which some may say, the common phrase, (the little Voice in their Head, kept them from Doing an immoral Act);
when in Fact, it is the Voice of the Lord, in their New Born Again spirit, IN their New Heart, Guiding them, literally superseding the Deceptive Thought in their Carnal Mind, in their Head!)
2) Again regarding a Perceptual Behavior of men...it is Their Choice...To Be IN Christ, and Have surrendered Authority to the Lords Power (Holy Spirit) TO guide them Toward A Good Choice...
• OR a man may Choose to NOT Be IN Christ, Remain, under their OWN power, OR ignore the Lords Power within Them...
and Listen TO the deception of their Carnal Mind;
And FOR that Choice; the Scripture Reveals,
That man's Accountability FOR his Choices,
Land squarely ON Him...

Gal 5:6
... Every man shall bear his OWN burden.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

Thats teh whole point, Sin has no more power Christ took it all away, nothing can now separate us from God. Christ paid the ultimate price so death and sin would have no power over us.

Sin has the power to separate us from God. Christ is the power over sin in the person who walks by grace through faith.

Nothing can separate us from the love of God....but sin is still sin...and the wages of sin is still death. Paul said if we continue to sow to the flesh....we will reap corruption.

So you are making false claims based on presumptions. Do you walk in a holy sinfulness? Does God wink at your sinning? Just what kind of walk do you have that is so far removed from truth and reality?

Can a person live in a sinfully miraculous power of intimacy with God? So then your statements cannot be trusted at all to convey any kind of truth.

But what you say, is just because men dont behave as you would want them too, than they cannot be in Christ, how wrong you are. If teh devil had a list of sins every one commits there would be no names missing off it, its a good thing Christ doesnt keep one.
Every man will be saved by Grace through faith, there will be no boasting in heaven.

Do you think I wrote the bible? The standard of Christ is perfection. You are arguing for a sinful holiness. You are seeing a kind of list for sins rather than living in a life of victory. So you have a more political view of things....as opposed to a relational experience of the resurrection power of God.

Every man? Walking in new life is by the Spirit. Victory over sin is by the Spirit...no boasting there.

But you are making sinfulness a virtue that counteracts any possible boasting by saying...see how I sin so that I can never boast about being good of myself.

Should we sin so that we can't boast of how good we are? Complete foolishness. We are to abstain from boasting based on the forsaking of the carnal mind...not the edification of the carnal mind.

So you have gone down a very seriously wrong rabbit trail. I pray you come to your proper inner sense and stop with the carnal political reasonings. Instead put on Christ. Those who love Jesus DO what He says to do...and that does not include sin. In Him is NO sin.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Where did I do that please, are you, As your tiltle says, our victory is in Jesus not in ourselves or what we do. It is hard enough for those who come to Christ to walk in faith without others demanding more of them than Christ does.

Agree it is through Him. Only wonder why then we are so hard on others. Including me (hard on others).

 

[farouk]

Sanctification is along with Justification. Once Justification happens, you ARE sanctified. It is not a life long process of overcoming sin as many are taught. (Part of the false doctrine.) It is not present and future, it is past tense! Once you have been cleansed of ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, that includes taking away the DESIRE to sin, and creates desires for only righteousness.

We do what comes naturally, either to the old sinful nature, or the new born again nature. Those who are still a slave to sin, have NEVER been born again. The Spirit may still be in the process of drawing them, but they have never surrendered to allow the Spirit to even begin the good work towards perfection. Steps to perfection are in 2 Peter 1:5-7

Past tense (was sanctified)
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

@CharismaticLady Sanctification is both a positional thing at conversion and an ongoing, daily thing; there are the two aspects in the NT.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Let's see if I was wrong about what I perceive you to be saying. If I am, I will be the first to admit it, and believe me, I hope I am, but if so, you should make yourself more clear.

It seems to me you believe:

• Your faith in Christ's sacrifice has saved you from the same punishment for your past, present and future sins that you will still be committing.
• Romans 4 declares that you are free from the law by your faith in the sacrifice of Jesus.
• The sins you are now committing are on the cross with Jesus.

Am I right or wrong in my judgment? Please don't give me a long run around answer, just tell me which I have right, and which I have wrong? If wrong, you may tell me what I have wrong, and maybe I'll agree with you.

You appear to be correct.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

But you don't recognize that He took the desire to sin away also, so that you won't sin anymore. "Be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect."

Your personal “ Holiness” and your personal “Perfection” are a joke......I am sure it is obvious to anybody that knows you.....are you married? Let me ask your Husband about your so- called “ Perfection”.......
I am the TRUE “ Chief Of Sinners” ( step aside, Paul there’s a New kid in town ) yet , just like Abraham, who was FAR from Perfect or Holy, God slapped upon Him a “ label” of being “ righteous” ( That would include being Perfect, Blameless and Holy) simply because he “ BELIEVED GOD”
Nobody but God is TRULY HOLY or PERFECT or RIGHTEOUS —— I am IMPUTED with the very Righteous of Christ simply because I, like Abraham Believe God......I REST in the Gospel Of 1Cor:1-4 and because of that , God “ considers” me Righteous.....I am “ MADE Righteous” by the Blood Of The Lamb...our own personal “ Holiness” amounts to a Stench in God’s Nostrils....you are not fooling anybody......I pity those that do not understand the True Ways Of God and have the burden of going around trying to “ Act Holy” all of the time.....what a miserable existence that must be....How much better it is to REST in the Finished Work Of Jesus on the Cross , and let Him Work “ Through” me instead of me trying to do it myself and live a lie that I am “ Holy”.....God views me through “ the spectacles of Christ” and sees me just as Holy as Jesus is.....If your “ Gospel “ is reliant on you and what “ you” do—— it ain’t the Gospel......The Gospel is NOT what we do for God. It is what God has-done for “us”. It is a Gift.We are to accept that gift and put our continued Faith in it....

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If that is so, give the biblical substantiation for your doctrine.

REad my last answer to charismatic Lady!

Also take a read past the english and look at the greek for many of these verses.

Verses like
Heb 10:14

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. It doesn't mean what it looks like in English. Same with so many verses you and CL and the others who believe you have ceased from sin and are now in your day to day experience perfect.

Passages like Romans 12:1-2 become moronic advice and apostle can give if born again believers never sin, are perfect inthought word and deed and are fully conformed to the image of jesus!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi -
Interested in your thoughts on:

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Thank you.
Glory to God,
Taken

Hi teken:

Taking this verse by itself and standing it all alone, one would conclude that a believer once He is born of god will not sin anymore and indeed cannot sin anymore! the opposite would also be true. that if a person commits a sin then they are lost and not born of God!

BUT BUT BUT: taken with the rest of Scriptures on the life of a believer we find these things which are true as well:

1. The old man (the one God has declared dead) can do nothing but sin. Romans 8
2. The old man fights for supremacy in our soul! Romans 7
3. we must choose to die daily. Romans 6
4. 1 John 1:9 is gods provision when we do fail.
5. The believer has two places- their daily experience, and the position god has declared us to be! Things like we are perfected forever, we are justified, we are seated in heavenly places, we are dead in Christ, our life is hid in Christ etc.
6. That is why Hebrews 10:14 God has declared us finished (perfected) and is now sanctifying us!
7. Do we ever need to sin anymore ? NO!
8. But Romans 12: 1-2 is th eoperative Word for us. We are spending our lives unlearning the old ways of thinking (which govern our living) and learning and practicing the new way of thinking (according to the word of God)
9. god is patient! He owns us and is in the process of conforming us to the image of Jesus!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is interesting to number how many verses your beliefs contradict. And it is sad that you don't know that. The context of 1 John 1:8 is 1 John 1:9 (before and after)

Actually my beliefs are based on rightly dividing those verses, which you do not do!

 

[marks]

Is it possible that, when applied, the blood of Christ would do one thing without also doing the other?

Justification is to "render righteous", I believe God does both, imputed, and imparted, in the same act.

Much love!